Out-of-work Teachers

drusk

...more than 400,000 people are on the dole, including an estimated 1,500 out-of-work teachers.


Of 1,000 second-level teachers who graduated last year, just 50 have secured full-time positions. Many more have had to emigrate or take up part-time roles.

Full article here: http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/ailish-ohora-rolls-royce-retirements-for-teachertds-have-to-go-2107516.html

According to this article, there are an estimated 1,500 teachers in Ireland on the dole. I'm just interested in the accuracy of this figure. With more than 1,000 more teachers set to qualify this year, I wonder what their prospects are.

What do teachers here think? Do you believe this is an accurate figure? Are you an out-of-work teacher and if so, what's your story? Are there many teachers set to retire in your school this year?

rainbowtrout

I'd say there's also plenty more who are not on the dole, but not in teaching jobs either. I have a number of teacher friends who are doing admin work, bar work, office jobs etc. It looks like there will be two retirements in my school this year but I can't see us hiring anyone else, there are a number of part time teachers who are not on full hours so they will probably take the surplus hours, if any

gitterbug

im subbin this year!! and gettin on the dole for weeks i dont have any work... i suppose im lucky that most weeks i get 2/3 days a week but then others nothing but then again could be working the whole week at other times! its very depressin goin to college for soooooooo long and comin out doin the same thing i did before i got my h.dip! ive applied for jobs in offices that told me im not qualified to do this!! soooooooooo in all fairness what ya do!! i know others in the same situation or with no work!!
shouldnt really complain at least ive got something!!

dg647

Another thing that would make for interesting reading is how many teachers are on part time hours? Contracts of 10/14/16 etc hours? There is an awful lot of teachers in this situation that are just scraping by. In my opinion there are too many new teachers qualifying at the moment. The numbers should be cut away back so that the backlog is cleared. There are too many going for too little jobs so principals can do what they want, bad hours, asking to do voluntary extras etc.

And I am newly qualified in case anyone asks that question

killbillvol2

drusk wrote: »

Full article here: http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/ailish-ohora-rolls-royce-retirements-for-teachertds-have-to-go-2107516.html

According to this article, there are an estimated 1,500 teachers in Ireland on the dole. I'm just interested in the accuracy of this figure. With more than 1,000 more teachers set to qualify this year, I wonder what their prospects are.

What do teachers here think? Do you believe this is an accurate figure? Are you an out-of-work teacher and if so, what's your story? Are there many teachers set to retire in your school this year?

I don't know how you can even use the word accuracy in relation to an article in that rag. The number was just plucked out of the air as usual.

I'd say there are far more than 1500 teachers unemployed and the number will rise significantly in the next couple of years as too many teachers are trained for too few jobs.

The only bright spot for anyone starting out is that there will be a MASSIVE number of retirements this year but that's a once off.

maynooth_rules

The government are doing not about this. It is quote obvious that there is well over a thousand fully qualified teachers on the dole. Yet the government are putting no cap whatsoever on the number that will qualify this year, of the year after, or the year after.

drusk

killbillvol2 wrote: »

The only bright spot for anyone starting out is that there will be a MASSIVE number of retirements this year but that's a once off.

Why will there be so many this year than in other years?

peanuthead

maynooth_rules wrote: »

The government are doing not about this. It is quote obvious that there is well over a thousand fully qualified teachers on the dole. Yet the government are putting no cap whatsoever on the number that will qualify this year, of the year after, or the year after.

At 6500€ a pop in fees are you surprised at this?

peanuthead

drusk wrote: »

Why will there be so many this year than in other years?

There was MASSIVE recruitment into the teaching profession years ago and all of those who were employed then are reaching retirement age now. Also this early retirement/pension protection thingy will send a few on their way. Another thing is that the TC are expecting to pass Section 30 over the summer which will mean that no unqualified teachers will be allowed inside a classroom in September.

drusk

peanuthead wrote: »

There was MASSIVE recruitment into the teaching profession years ago and all of those who were employed then are reaching retirement age now.

Does your claim have any evidence or is it just something you heard from somebody? ie., a newspaper article, a book, a union newsletter, etc.

Another thing is that the TC are expecting to pass Section 30 over the summer which will mean that no unqualified teachers will be allowed inside a classroom in September.

As with everything concerning the TC, that sounds wonderful but how on earth would they enforce it!? They are not the department and as such, i can't see how they can effectively implement anything!

gagiteebo

killbillvol2 wrote: »

The only bright spot for anyone starting out is that there will be a MASSIVE number of retirements this year but that's a once off.

Nice thought but I have heard the very same thing for 2 years running and each time people give the same story about the recruitment years ago etc etc yet each time it has been incredibly difficult to find work, if at all....

peanuthead

drusk wrote: »

Does your claim have any evidence or is it just something you heard from somebody? ie., a newspaper article, a book, a union newsletter, etc.



As with everything concerning the TC, that sounds wonderful but how on earth would they enforce it!? They are not the department and as such, i can't see how they can effectively implement anything!

gagiteebo wrote: »

Nice thought but I have heard the very same thing for 2 years running and each time people give the same story about the recruitment years ago etc etc yet each time it has been incredibly difficult to find work, if at all....

Okay my claim doesn't have any solid proof as of yet, but I can get it as I was told this by a very senior person with the education sector. Let me get back to you on this but I definitely can source good solid proof on this.

About the TC, the liase directly with the minister for education, this is stated in their mandate and can be seen on their webpage. So I'm assuming that it is not them that actually implement their rules but the minister.

killbillvol2

drusk wrote: »

Why will there be so many this year than in other years?

The reason there will be so many this year has nothing to do with massive numbers recruited or any other hearsay.

Lenihan, in the budget, guaranteed that public servants retiring during 2010 would have their pension and lump sum calculated based on their salary before the January pay cut. That's thousands of euro in the lump sum and even more significant long term for their pensions. Anyone over 55 with 35 years service would have to think long and hard about whether it was worthwhile to stay on and in most cases the answer would be no.

Dionysus

What's the betting that the idea that there will be a "massive" number of retirements in the teaching profession has been propagated by, surprise surprise, the people running PGDE courses in universities.

I, also, have seen no evidence of this. Does anybody have the statistics on how many teachers are expected to retire this year?

Free education was given in 1969, and with the rise in students the number of teachers rose dramatically. I don't see how this year there will be such a "massive" increase in retirements as opposed to recent years.

Dionysus

maynooth_rules wrote: »

The government are doing not about this. It is quote obvious that there is well over a thousand fully qualified teachers on the dole. Yet the government are putting no cap whatsoever on the number that will qualify this year, of the year after, or the year after.

They should, but it is solely the universities, who are making millions from running the PGDE, who are stopping it. On the other hand every single person who decided to do the PGDE started it with their eyes wide open about the prospects of their getting a job.

Dionysus

Also, have those of you who are struggling to get a job thought about emigrating? Can you still make more money here substituting than you would working in Britain full-time as a teacher?

spurious

Dionysus wrote: »

Can you still make more money here substituting than you would working in Britain full-time as a teacher?

Could you ever?

There are tens of people going for each subbing hour. Add to this it's just not about being available, it's about being within as little as a class length's distance from a school that needs you. No point being available for classes if they will be half over by the time you get there.

Subbing is a very precarious way to make money.

There seems to be this strange perception out there among some people that teaching and sub teaching are this great source of unending income. I have a colleague whose timetable has 3 hours on it this year, down from 14.

drusk

Retirements

I've just done a little digging around to find out more about how many people may retire this year. It looks optimistic for those out of work.

This is what the ASTI website says:
Pensions

• Existing pensions of teachers have not been affected by the budget.
• Teachers who retire in 2010 will not be affected – their pensions and lump sum will be calculated on the basis of their pre-pay cut salary.
• The budget is silent on what happens to teachers who retire from 2011 on, so we have to assume that their pensions and lump sums will be calculated on the basis of post- pay cut salaries.

So, what that basically says, is that if you don't retire in 2010, your pension will be taxed next year.

So how much would these teachers stand to lose by not retiring?

The cuts work out as following:

5% on the first €30,000
7.5% on the next €40,000
10% on the next €55,000

So if a teacher was set to retire with a lump sum of €100,000, they would lose €7,500 of this by waiting until 2011, based on the percentage cuts above. Those cuts would also be imposed on their monthly take-home pension amount.

Also, God only knows what further cuts or changes could be made in next years budget.


I guess there's two ways of looking at it.

1. If you've reached the age whereby you can retire on full pension and you are quite happy to walk away from teaching and you can think of millions of things you'd rather be doing than correcting copies, etc, then great. Now's the time to leave before things get any worse.

2. If you are in your fifties, and you've accumulated enough years so that you can retire now, but you're not so sure, are these pay cuts enough to make you retire? What if you still love your job and can't imagine how you'd fill your days without it? If you're in your fifties, you still have another ten years you can do - the financial situation in ten years will probably be a lot better by then. So is the loss of roughly 7.5k enough to make someone like this retire? - Not likely.


I guess there is reason enough for out-of-work teachers to be optimistic about the retirement situation. But I wouldn't expect a huge windfall of teachers in their fifties to run for the door this June leading to mass job-vacancies across the country... Although I could be wrong...

dukedalton

I qualified from the PGDE in 2009 and couldn't find a job in Ireland so, like my ancestors before me, got on the boat to England and got a (teaching) job over there.

People should not make the mistake of thinking 1 retirement=1 new job; reality is that the retiree's hours are covered by other teachers in the school not on full hours taking one or two more.

The situation in Ireland is grim- reality is there are hundreds of applications for every post simply because the universities are churning out graduates, with too few jobs available. But asking the universities to cut down on their PGDE numbers would be akin to queuing up turkeys to cast their ballot for the forthcoming Christmas referendum: it's never going to happen. PGDE students are paying e6,000 a pop- universities will never turn down that kind of money.

Part of the problem is that the terms and conditions of the job are so good (especially in comparison to those in England- 3 months summer holiday vs 5 weeks, for example). With a good pension and great hours, most of those who fell into the job in the 1970s are in no rush to leave. That means people like me have to go abroad to get a foothold in the profession.

Jane98

Is any aware if there any research available to suggest that the teaching subject a potential teacher has effects the length of time it takes to secure a full time position.

I am due to start the Hdip in Sept and Maths will be my first subject. Obviously there has been a lot of stuff in the media recently about the number of teachers in our schools teaching maths who do not have approppriate Mathematics training so I was wondering if anyone had a view as to whether I might possibly find it a little easier to secure employment post hdip.