Are the Irish Defence Forces too big?

Hobby Horse

As any increase in funding for defence is unlikely to happen should the numbers in the defence force be cut to pay for improved equipment.

A 10,000 strong military is large for a country with a population the size of Ireland, surely a smaller force (but with a smiliar budget) with improved equipment would be much more effective?

Artur.PL

Sorry for off top but I'm intersted,do you have(Irish Defence Force) radiolocation units as well?

Manic Moran

Hobby Horse wrote: »

A 10,000 strong military is large for a country with a population the size of Ireland, surely a smaller force (but with a smiliar budget) with improved equipment would be much more effective?

Not really. Most of the missions that the Irish military goes on are manpower intensive, not equipment intensive. Peacekeeping particularly is done by face-to-face contact, not through computer screens and heavy armour. As it is, the Defence Forces are fairly strained.

NTM

PeterIanStaker

The DF is overstretched as it is. They should be allowed retain present strength, not being cut.

OS119

the Irish Army is a bit big for what it produces - EOD and counter-terrorism spt to civil power, escorting cash vans and putting between 600 and 800 personnel on overseas deployment - however the ineffeciency is primarily caused by a (parish pump) political need for lots of small bases littered around the country all of which soak up resources just by existing.

by consolidating into just two big garrisons the Army would free up an enormous amount of manpower - it could concentrate on doing the tasks it needs to do, rather than having haemorage personnel on administrative tasks like running, maintaining and guarding umpteen small camps.

so yes, the Army is both too big for what it produces, and its stretched to produce what it does - all one which are the result of parish pump politics and some 'interesting' internal working practices designed - apparently - to use the maximum possible manpower for each task.

that said, i would suggest that politician reading this and thinking 'haha, there's still milk in the DoD tit that could be better used to fund my re-election - err... i mean vital services for the hard-working families of Ballycowshit' should be aware that while the DF is probably overmanned for what it does, it is woefully under-equipped for its task. as a force set up on a light-infantry doctrine it is frighteningly immobile, and laughably 'under-firepowered'. were it to to actually face battle with a non-state force like the Taliban, let alone a regular army, it would be decimated.

punchdrunk

I always thought for an Island nation our aircorps and Navy should be far larger
it should restructured into a force along the lines of the USMC

airvan

Eventually someone has to decide exactly what the DF's purpose is. OS119 hits the nail on the head. It is underequipped, lacks firepower and mobility yet is overmanned but under pressure to carry out the roles it's given.

There really needs to be complete review of the role and organisation.

Two big garrisons is a good idea. The Irish army only army where a young man can join the army but effectively continue to live with his parents after basic training. Something I've seen several times. There are too many regional barracks which are a throwback to British times. That it really rather odd.

Perhaps the way to go forward is to lose the idea of an army all together and look at turning it into a paramilitary force with well defined aid to the civil power roles and to be a back up to the Gardai. The Air Corps should be all helicopters to support the ground troops and the Navy to effectively become part of the Coast Guard or indeed the actual Coast Guard. The peacekeeping role could continue easily and indeed be expanded.

It's current role as a rather basic conventional army is well out of date. We really don't need defence against external enemies and we're never going to take part in campaigns overseas as part of a military alliance. Indeed the government will never allow the army to take an active part in military operations where the potential for casualties is expected. So what's the point in pretending?

It'll probably never happen. The politicians are clueless when it comes to the military and the officer corps are not going commit career suicide by suggesting the institution they joined be abolished and replaced by something more civilian than military.

Hobby Horse

I think it can be taken as a given that the Defence Forces aren't going to see any increase in the budget in the near future. Through the boom years of the celtic tiger when the Goverment was spending money like it was going out of fashion it never seemed to reach the defence forces.

So assuming the money is going to remain static then surely the answer is to spend what money there is more intelligently, a smaller better equipped defence force with increase reliance on the reserves.

We may have an 8000 strong army but would an army half that size but with modern equipment be a more effective force.