Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Landlord staying occasionally?

Options
  • 21-03-2010 1:15pm
    #1
    Bob Z
    Registered Users Posts: 2,587 ✭✭✭


    Has anyone here lived in a house where the landlord comes back and stays every so often? Would it be worth moving into a house like this if the rent was cheap? It would be only once or twice a year.


Comments

  • Options
    #2
    makeorbrake
    Registered Users Posts: 4,664 ✭✭✭makeorbrake


    Bob Z wrote: »
    Has anyone here lived in a house where the landlord comes back and stays every so often? Would it be worth moving into a house like this if the rent was cheap? It would be only once or twice a year.
    I haven't but only you can come up with the solution anyway as its specific to you and the landlord. Whats the landlords motivation in doing this? Is he trying to keep this income under the rent a room scheme by occasionally, staying in the house or has concerns about how the house would be treated by tenants or..genuinely is in need of a roof over his head a couple of times a year (maybe because he's going overseas or something?)?

    Regardless of the reasons why, the only question you need to ask yourself is can you see yourself sharing a house with this person?


  • Options
    #3
    pwd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,284 ✭✭✭pwd


    It would depend on the landlord.
    I would avoid it, personally.
    He might be letting the house under the rent a room scheme, or whatever it's called.
    That's where landlords don't have to pay much tax if they have tenants in houses where they live themselves.
    That might be relevant to you, because you have very different rights in this situation, than you do in normal circumstances when you rent.
    By "very different", I mean "far fewer".
    For example, he would be able to tell you to leave without giving you notice.
    Like I said, I'd avoid it.
    But if the landlord is a nice normal kind of guy and you need the rent reduction, then maybe consider it I suppose.


  • Options
    #4
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 17,891 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    I 've heard some odd stories over the years with drunk landlords arriving unannouned and letting themselves in. In theory there isnt a problem but you both need to know exactly what occasional means, and you obviously should be getting a decent discount

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Options
    #5
    pwd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,284 ✭✭✭pwd


    Another thing is that, if he is under the rent a room scheme, I would see the possibility of him moving back into the house entirely, if his situation changes, maybe even kicking you out when he does so.
    Too many uncertainties imo, don't rent there.


  • Options
    #6
    Bob Z
    Registered Users Posts: 2,587 ✭✭✭Bob Z


    He will be living in another country and will be back maybe once or twice a year.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    pwd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,284 ✭✭✭pwd


    Unless he loses his job, loses his gf, gets homesick, has a sick family member, feels like taking more holidays than usual, etc etc.


  • Options
    #8
    testicle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,430 ✭✭✭testicle


    Bob Z wrote: »
    He will be living in another country and will be back maybe once or twice a year.

    For 6 months at a time?


  • Options
    #9
    Xiney
    Registered Users Posts: 8,085 ✭✭✭Xiney


    Bob Z wrote: »
    He will be living in another country and will be back maybe once or twice a year.

    1) He will be a non-resident landlord for the purposes of tax - so you will need to retain 21% (not sure of the exact number actually, what with all the new budgets lately but it's around there) of the rent to pass on to the revenue

    2) He may be trying to keep the house as an "owner occupied" house so that you have less rights as a tenant. I don't know if there's a minimum stay required for it to qualify as owner occupied... you'd want to check it out



    Personally, I wouldn't be comfortable with this situation, but I rent with my husband alone so it's different from when you're sharing and there's people coming and going randomly anyway. If you trust him and you can get clarification on the two points above... then I guess it might work out.


  • Options
    #10
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    It all sounds kinda iffy to me


  • Options
    #11
    p
    Registered Users Posts: 2,119 ✭✭✭p


    Bob Z wrote: »
    He will be living in another country and will be back maybe once or twice a year.
    Sounds fine, my main thing would be to simply get it all agreed in writing an put in the contract.

    e.g. Stuff like this:
    - He can come no more than once every 2 months.
    - 3 weeks notice is required
    - Duration of stay is no more than 7 days


    The main thing with a situation like this is that everyone's expectations are the same. Once they're in line and agree there shouldn't be problems. It's not fun to have to agree all that stuff, but honestly it will be much better if it's in out in the open.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #12
    Amhran Nua
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,124 ✭✭✭Amhran Nua


    Xiney wrote: »
    1) He will be a non-resident landlord for the purposes of tax - so you will need to retain 21% (not sure of the exact number actually, what with all the new budgets lately but it's around there) of the rent to pass on to the revenue
    Is the onus on the tenants to pay the landlord's taxes for him in this situation?


  • Options
    #13
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,283 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Amhran Nua wrote: »
    Is the onus on the tenants to pay the landlord's taxes for him in this situation?

    Bizarrely enough- yes, the onus is on the tenant to pay the landlord's tax in a non-resident landlord situation (unless the landlord legally appoints an agent to act in their stead).

    Further- if he is hoping to use the rent-a-room scheme-

    1. As he is legally non-resident, it doesn't apply
    2. If he is trying to claim he is living there- all bills go towards the gross consideration for the rental of the property- all bills......

    Its a minefield and to be honest, I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole.......


  • Options
    #14
    ricman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,559 ✭✭✭ricman


    I,d have no problem with that if the rent was cheaper than average, by the way if the landlord ,stays in your gaff one night, he reduces his tax liability by a large amount.
    AS long as he doesnt try and sleep in your bedroom.
    THE landlord has no legal right to stay without your permission, and should give prior notice if he wants to inspect the house or carry out repairs,
    you have a legal right to privacy.
    IF your paying say 1000 a month rent well then its ridiculous, maybe hes an alcoholic or has a drug problem.
    BUT some people might put up with it if the rent was low.
    in the eyes of the taxman ,he is a resident just by staying there 1 night,which means he pays LESS
    tax on his income.
    IF the rent is low, and hes not stealing anything , well id have no problem with it.
    LANDLORDS may pay zero tax, ie if the rent is 700, mortgage is 600 ,the landlord pays no tax,
    ie you are only taxed if you make a profit ,after all expenses, and you get tax credits for insurance,repairs etc.
    ie you could be getting 1million rental income and pay no taxes whatsoever,
    if you have a good accountant.and x amount of expenses,interest payments and tax credits.
    NO ONE ever said the tax system was simple in ireland.
    ITS PERFECTLY legal, to rent out 3 rooms, and leave 1 room empty 4 tax purposes,
    if he wants to stay in room x ,thats perfectly legal,
    as long as its made clear ,you are not renting out the whole house.
    you maybe renting out 90percent of the house, at a reduced rate.

    a landlords taxes are not really your business, you fill in form x and you get tax credits for
    rent payments.
    I,D be happy to move in if the rent is cheap, i,m saving money.
    HIS tax regime is not your business, hes not doing anything illegal in my opinion.
    YOU are responsible for paying your taxes, and claiming your credits,
    you will never be asked to pay sum1 elses taxes, unless you are married to them, or in a civil partnership .
    IF you think everyone pays 21,or 35percent tax on their income well then you have never met an accountant.


  • Options
    #15
    billybigunz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 925 ✭✭✭billybigunz


    I'm fairly certain he is tax dodging. Make sure the tenancy is registered with the PTRB. Stop paying rent if he is non resident until you have cleared the amount that might be liable to tax.
    Send the details to revenue if you want.
    in the eyes of the taxman ,he is a resident just by staying there 1 night
    This is not true. It has to be his primary residence if he is using hte rent a room scheme.


  • Options
    #16
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,283 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    billybigunz wrote: »
    I'm fairly certain he is tax dodging. Make sure the tenancy is registered with the PTRB. Stop paying rent if he is non resident until you have cleared the amount that might be liable to tax.
    Send the details to revenue if you want.

    If you suspect he may be non-resident for tax purposes- it is your duty as a tenant, to contact the Revenue Commissioners and to organise to forward witholding tax to them on a monthly basis. It is not sufficient to simply deduct the money- it must be forwarded by schedule to the Revenue Commissioners. They will in turn issue a balancing cert to the landlord at the end of the year, when any excess or deficit would be made good.
    billybigunz wrote: »
    This is not true. It has to be his primary residence if he is using hte rent a room scheme.

    Correct.


  • Options
    #17
    Bob Z
    Registered Users Posts: 2,587 ✭✭✭Bob Z


    I think its genuine enough he used to live in the house and wants it kept in good condition.

    How come i am responsible for tax? what does that mean in practice? could i end up witht he bill?


  • Options
    #18
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,283 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Bob Z wrote: »
    I think its genuine enough he used to live in the house and wants it kept in good condition.

    How come i am responsible for tax? what does that mean in practice? could i end up witht he bill?

    If he is non-resident you are legally obliged to deduct witholding tax and forward it to the Revenue Commissioners on an ongoing basis. The Revenue Commissioners in turn forward a balancing certificate to the Landlord at years end, and this is used by the landlord when doing his tax return- and if necessary a balance returned to him.

    The onus is legally on the tenant to deduct the tax and forward it to Revenue- its unfair as hell, but its the law.


  • Options
    #19
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,356 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    EITHER

    You are renting a room and are a lodger and have few rights and he can pretty much come and go as he pleases

    OR

    You are renting a house and are a tenant and have better rights and he can only drop by occassionally (with notice) for inspections or maintenance.

    He wants a middle ground, so you should only be paying rent / bills for your room, not the whole house. You need to structure that such that you both agree as to how each bill is divided.

    What about repairs? If he is away and the roof leaks, will you be expected to arrange someone?
    p wrote: »
    Sounds fine, my main thing would be to simply get it all agreed in writing an put in the contract.

    e.g. Stuff like this:
    - He can come no more than once every 2 months.
    - 3 weeks notice is required
    - Duration of stay is no more than 7 days

    The main thing with a situation like this is that everyone's expectations are the same. Once they're in line and agree there shouldn't be problems. It's not fun to have to agree all that stuff, but honestly it will be much better if it's in out in the open.
    I think something like this is in order. You don't want the landlord showing up at 3am, with his mates / random strangers to have a party.


  • Options
    #20
    ricman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,559 ✭✭✭ricman


    Say his principal private residence is in longford, if you agree its ok,if he stays 2 days, if he stays 2 days he saves on possible future,capital gains tax.MAYBE ,he saves nothing if the house value does not increase.
    I would be happy to go along with this if you get some reduction in rent.IT
    IS PERFECTLY legal, in law and re the tax code in ireland,
    eg i cannot stay in a house in belfast for 4 days and then state that is my principal
    permanent residence for tax purposes.THE tax office knows your renting,as you will fill in a form to claim your tax allowance re rent .
    THIS IS probably nothing to do with tax at all.
    i know 6 landlords, i,ve never heard of a tenant holding onto tax for a landlord.
    i do not see anything wrong with this.IF you get a lower rent.
    he will pay the same tax on rental income as any other landlord.


Advertisement