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Buyer wants to return item

  • 21-03-2010 12:54am
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,521 ✭✭✭


    Hi all

    Sold my phone on ebay there last week and posted it out to the buyer no problem there. When he got the phone he unloaded the Windows Mobile 6.5 software that was on it and tried installing 6.1, in doing so he seems to have bricked the phone.

    Now he wants to return it to me saying that he should have been able to change the version. I had advertised it as being Windows Mobile 6.5 with screenshots. I offered a return policy as long as it was in its ORIGINAL condition which now obviously it isn't.

    Any advice on how to proceed, obviously I don't want to give him a refund as he seems to have messed the phone up! He says hes going to post it back to me on Monday.

    At the very least I can see me getting negative feedback so I was wondering should I offer to have a look at it to see can I get it onto software 6.1 for him and fix the problem while stating that this is all at his own risk and may not work?

    Thanks


Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,713 ✭✭✭✭jor el


    If he's bricked the phone, that's problem. He could well leave negative feedback, but you could appeal that given that you know he's been messing with the phone. Tell him not to return it, as you will refuse to accept. If he does return it, refuse the delivery, and have it returned to sender.

    You should not entertain this at all. You'll be left with a phone that doesn't work, and can't be sold.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,917 ✭✭✭B00MSTICK


    He probably flashed it incorrectly. 100% his fault.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 426 ✭✭Kepti


    If you're corresponding with him though e-bay like you should be, and you have a message from him admitting to flashing the phone then you'll stand a good chance of getting any negative feedback removed. Just make sure that you get an admission where e-bay can verify it before you tell him to get lost.

    Any idea why he'd want to roll back to 6.1?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,429 ✭✭✭testicle


    Was 6.5 an official ROM?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,647 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    You just might end up with a different phone from the one you sent him. Common scam.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,785 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    I would tell him not to bother posting it back as he ain't getting a refund. If he does post it back, refuse to accept the package.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,521 ✭✭✭Joseph


    6.5 that was on it was a more finger friendly version so not official but worked fine he just didn't seem to like it. It was screenshotted as being that version though. Changing versions would have been no problem for him as long as he knew what he was doing.

    I'm going to tell him that I'll not be accepting a return for it because it's not in its original condition and not my fault the phone isn't working.

    RE refusing package at the door, what happens if there is no return address on the package?

    On the negative feedback, I have ebay messages from him stating exactly what he did and exactly what error he created - will ebay remove his negative feedback if thats the case?

    In the event he wants to take it further what happens?

    Cheers


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,045 ✭✭✭ttm


    Has the buyer started a dispute yet?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,521 ✭✭✭Joseph


    No haven't let him know that I won't be accepting a refund yet, what happens in the event of a dispute?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,045 ✭✭✭ttm


    Deaddude wrote: »
    No haven't let him know that I won't be accepting a refund yet, what happens in the event of a dispute?

    How to win a Paypal dispute for Buyers and Sellers should tell you everything you need to know


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,388 ✭✭✭delllat


    ur screwed either way ,thats why i stopped using ebay and paypal and i was a powerseller selling 0000s per month
    its too heavily stacked in favour of the buyer

    you are going to end up with a broken phone or negative feedback or both

    he is going to end up with a full refund and u are powerless to prevent it

    he could have dropped that phone down the toilet for all u know and invented the software problem


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 329 ✭✭drBill


    He's taking the mick. Basically he bought something from you in working order, destroyed it of his own accord, and expects you to foot the bill.
    Even if you do did take it back, he'd have to reimburse you for destroying it.
    Not a leg to stand on, hope he doesn't give you too much grief.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,713 ✭✭✭✭jor el


    Take the money out of your Paypal account now, if possible. If he starts a dispute, the money will be frozen until it's resolved, at which point there is a chance that you could lose it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,785 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    If the buyer claims 'Item Not As Described' to Paypal and returns it via a trackable means, he will get a refund from Paypal. The only thing that may work against him is the emails from him.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,272 ✭✭✭✭Max Power1


    If the buyer claims 'Item Not As Described' to Paypal and returns it via a trackable means, he will get a refund from Paypal. The only thing that may work against him is the emails from him.
    yep - if the buyer claims its not as described and sends it back via a trackable method then the buyer will get their refund. System very weighted towards the buyer.. as mentioned above, withdraw your funds now!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,388 ✭✭✭delllat


    even if u withdraw the cash from ur paypal acc

    i think paypal will bill your credit card to give the buyer a refunnd

    if u dont have a credit card /bank acc attached to ur account and they cant claw back the money they will ban u for life from paypal and this ban wll include not only this account but any future account u or anyone in your house opens

    in the good old days if u got a neg u didnt deserve u could neg them straight back,now its just not worth the hassle
    i still have paypal but id only use it as a buyer now


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,521 ✭✭✭Joseph


    This is ridiclous, I've gone ahead and withdrawn the funds out.

    If he does send it back should I refuse delivery? If there is no return address on it what will happen it?

    I have emails from him clearing stating what he did to cause the error, partly quoted below:
    After I received it, I didn't like the Windows
    Mobile 6.5 (cos a few features were dodgy on it)
    so I installed the official ROM from the HTC
    website. Now when I switch on the screen the
    colours go bizarre (they're like 8 bit or
    something).

    I then proceeded to explain that it could be a number of things that he did incorrectly when changing versions and offered a few suggestions to be tried at his own risk. I said that it wasn't in its original condition anymore (which it obviously isnt as hes admitted) and he replied
    First of all I didn't "create" any problem. I
    merely installed the official, original ROM, the
    way it was meant to be. If it's having problems
    with that, then there's obviously a problem with
    the phone itsself, not with the ROM I installed on
    it since it works perfectly on the rest of the HTC
    HDs for which it was designed.

    I would have created the problem had I damaged it
    physically. Besides you can always revert it back
    to the original ROM whenever u like. As for me,
    I'm gonna have to send the phone back I'm afraid
    cos if it doesn't work on this ROM (which is
    official from HTC), then it's no good to me. I'll
    send post it back on registered post on Monday.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,521 ✭✭✭Joseph


    As a compromise should I offer to have a look at the phone and see can I install 6.1 myself at his own risk of course with no guarantees that it will work because I don't know what he's done to it or is that too risky?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,045 ✭✭✭ttm


    Whats the time scale? If you can drag it out to 45 days then do so. I think you might be dealing with a retard so just play for time and if he sends it back the cheapest method with no tracking then say nothing. Not fair but the buyer does seem to be a plank and is expecting you to refund for his stupidity.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,521 ✭✭✭Joseph


    Hes said hes going to post it back tomorrow with registered post and now has said hes going to open a paypal dispute
    I'm asking you nicely to give me a refund for if
    you do not comply, I will make a claim to paypal
    and will get my money back. I've done it before
    and I can do it again trust me!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,713 ✭✭✭✭jor el


    Tell him to restore thr 6.5 ROM and verify it works before he returns it. If he can't do this, then he's bricked the phone, and it'll be no good to you either.

    If he sends it anyway, refuse to accept the delivery. If there's no return address, that's his problem and not yours. He'll have to prove you received it back before he gets any refund, and he won't be able to do this if you don't accept it. If you do accept it, regardless of whether it works or not, or if it can be restored or not, you will probably lose the claim.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,647 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Deaddude wrote: »
    Hes said hes going to post it back tomorrow with registered post and now has said hes going to open a paypal dispute
    I'm asking you nicely to give me a refund for if you do not comply, I will make a claim to paypal and will get my money back. I've done it before and I can do it again trust me!
    Sounds like a professional returner.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,521 ✭✭✭Joseph


    He has opened a dispute with paypal:
    I received this phone with WM 6.5, not the default OS of HTC HD. I found a few problems with this OS such as freezing up during booting and also I couldn't adjust the backlight function so I decided to go to the HTC website and install the official ROM from the manufacturer on it. I followed all the instructions given during the installation exactly and the installation went smoothly. The problem started however when the device reset once the installation had finished. The screen colours went bizarre. The problem got fixed once I switched the screen off and then swithced it back on again. This however only worked until the next reset. I have done ROM upgrades numerous times on various devices and never have I encountered a problem like this so this clearly implies that the problem was in the phone before he sold it to me as if the phone was in "full working order" as I was told, ROM upgrades, from the MANUFACTURER shouldn't cause problems like this one.

    Any tips on how I should respond?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,045 ✭✭✭ttm


    As far as I can tell the buyer has a good enough story for PayPal as they aren't going to want to get technical about stuff.

    All you can say is that the buyer has modified the phone in a process that can sometimes go wrong and took a risk which is his problem and not yours.

    But hopefully there will be soome better answers :confused:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,785 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    Did you take the serial (IMEI) number of the phone before sending it?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,521 ✭✭✭Joseph


    Yes I have the IMEI number


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,785 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    On what basis did he dispute this? Not as described?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,521 ✭✭✭Joseph


    Yes not as described with the message I quoted above


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,181 ✭✭✭bryaner


    I want to choke the buyer!!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46 KrazyKazzz


    He sounds like a complete JOKER to be honest.... Everyone who knows anything about phones know that rolling them back to a previous OS CAN cause issues for android phones!!!

    Did you advertise the phone with WM 6.5??? If so, see where he wrote ''I received this phone with WM 6.5, not the default OS of HTC HD. I found a few problems with this OS such as freezing up during booting and also I couldn't adjust the backlight function'' This is the point in which he should have returned the phone or looked for a refund.

    Instead he said ''so I decided to go to the HTC website and install the official ROM from the manufacturer on it''

    Being honest, if he found an 'Issue' before he started messing with the phone, its at that point he should have contacted you and not after he added to the 'issues' he claims there was.... If you put it like that to ebay and say you would have accepted the return in the first instance.... then they may just go your way.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,521 ✭✭✭Joseph


    Excellent point Kaz, I would have accepted the return if he had informed me of an issue before started messing around with it. I adviertised it clearly as WM 6.5.

    I think he may have messed it up by not having the correct SPL on it but thats not my fault only contacted me after he messed it up


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46 KrazyKazzz


    Well I reckon if you say it as I did above, ya might just be lucky. Why should you be stung eh?!!!! Nah I wouldnt accept it either if he posts it back.

    On a lighter note, do you have anymore or an ebay page I can look at?? I'm in the market for an Android phone for my boyfriend ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,521 ✭✭✭Joseph


    No more phones at the moment unfortunately Kaz, just to note though that the HD isn't an Android phone its a windows mobile phone

    If you're looking for an Android phone I reccommend the Google Nexus or if your not too pushed about having an android phone I'd get the HD2 (brand new ebay w/ 8GB card for 470 euro) I'll find link for you if you want


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46 KrazyKazzz


    Deaddude wrote: »
    No more phones at the moment unfortunately Kaz, just to note though that the HD isn't an Android phone its a windows mobile phone

    If you're looking for an Android phone I reccommend the Google Nexus or if your not too pushed about having an android phone I'd get the HD2 (brand new ebay w/ 8GB card for 470 euro) I'll find link for you if you want
    Ahhh ok.. So much for me thinkin i knew about phones lol. I think i just presumed the HTC's were all Android phones.. Obviously don't listen to the other half as much as I thought ;)

    Its an Android phone he wants... I'll take a look at the Google Nexus so.. Thanks a mill for that... He has plenty of windows phones and i prob would have surprised him with a phone that was of no use to him only for ya!! lol

    Any luck with your buyer today? Hope it was resolved easily.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,207 ✭✭✭longhalloween


    Prob changed the OS to play games or something. If youre in doubt, empty your paypal account into your bank account and delete your card details. That might stop them debiting you, but in fairness just explain to Paypal if he opens a complaint against you.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,388 ✭✭✭delllat


    taking out the money doesnt solve it completely though
    if ebay and paypal decide to refund the buyer his account will be blacklisted until the debt is put right ,this makes it almost impossible to be an ebay seller

    also hes gonna get a negative feedback from the buyer which will never looks good when ur selling hi-end phones


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,521 ✭✭✭Joseph


    I've responded to the dispute as best I could and escalated it to a claim, I'll let you know the outcome!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,272 ✭✭✭✭Max Power1


    Deaddude wrote: »
    I've responded to the dispute as best I could and escalated it to a claim, I'll let you know the outcome!
    any word?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,990 ✭✭✭Darksaga87


    Ive had so much trouble being an ebay seller, this is the exact position I nearly ended up in.

    Only use ebay as a buyer IMO.

    Ive been following this thread, very interested to see how it get resolved.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,521 ✭✭✭Joseph


    Just got an email this morning...

    We have concluded our investigation and have decided in your favor. Any
    funds that may have been temporarily held have been returned to your
    account.



    Won out in the end! I clearly stated exactly what he did, quoting him in his messages and also when he made the paypal dispute he started mentioning new things that was wrong with it that I had never heard of before!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,521 ✭✭✭Joseph


    Here is my response to the paypal dispute incase anyone is interested:
    On 19/03/10 (day item was delivered) buyer contacted me to say that he "didn't like the Windows Mobile 6.5" that was on the phone (as clearly advertised on the listing). He took it upon himself to downgrade to Windows Mobile 6.1 - which if not done correctly by having corresponding SPL and ROM versions will cause the phone serious errors.After he installed the downgraded version (which would have install perfectly if installed correctly) he said that "Now when I switch on the screen the colours go bizarre". A problem I have never encountered and has been caused by incorrect installation.The buyer should have contacted me when he found the "issue" (read: "features" he didn't like) before downgrading to 6.1 and causing the serious error. A refund would have been issued at this point without delay.The first time I heard of any problems with "booting" and the "backlight function" was when the dispute was filled. I offered a no quibble refund policy so long as the item could be returned in the ORIGINAL condition - which is now impossible as the buyer has caused the error - which was non-existent until the buyer attempted the downgrade.It is clear that the buyer has caused this error himself and is now trying to unload it back onto me and cause me financial hardship in doing so. He clearly admitted to causing the error on the device by downgrading and should have contacted me before doing so for a refund instead of messing the device.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,990 ✭✭✭Darksaga87


    Nicely done man. Has he contacted you since? (or can he now that it is resloved.?)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,521 ✭✭✭Joseph


    Haven't heard anything from him since, doubt he will since now he can't do anything :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,990 ✭✭✭Darksaga87


    Id love to send a textless message, just this:

    :D:p


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,785 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    Well done, you have managed to get the one person in payal with some commonsense! :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 426 ✭✭Kepti


    Congrats Deaddude. Justice prevails.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,388 ✭✭✭delllat


    must be 1 in a million cases where they took the sellers side in a dispute

    probably helpled that u had the emails saying the buyer "altered" the phones software thouogh

    99% of times they go wiith the buyer


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,990 ✭✭✭Darksaga87


    If your a genuine seller, you shouldnt have much to worry about.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,388 ✭✭✭delllat


    apart from idiots,scammers and extrotionate fees :)


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