Buyer wants to return item

Joseph

Hi all

Sold my phone on ebay there last week and posted it out to the buyer no problem there. When he got the phone he unloaded the Windows Mobile 6.5 software that was on it and tried installing 6.1, in doing so he seems to have bricked the phone.

Now he wants to return it to me saying that he should have been able to change the version. I had advertised it as being Windows Mobile 6.5 with screenshots. I offered a return policy as long as it was in its ORIGINAL condition which now obviously it isn't.

Any advice on how to proceed, obviously I don't want to give him a refund as he seems to have messed the phone up! He says hes going to post it back to me on Monday.

At the very least I can see me getting negative feedback so I was wondering should I offer to have a look at it to see can I get it onto software 6.1 for him and fix the problem while stating that this is all at his own risk and may not work?

Thanks

jor el

If he's bricked the phone, that's problem. He could well leave negative feedback, but you could appeal that given that you know he's been messing with the phone. Tell him not to return it, as you will refuse to accept. If he does return it, refuse the delivery, and have it returned to sender.

You should not entertain this at all. You'll be left with a phone that doesn't work, and can't be sold.

B00MSTICK

He probably flashed it incorrectly. 100% his fault.

Kepti

If you're corresponding with him though e-bay like you should be, and you have a message from him admitting to flashing the phone then you'll stand a good chance of getting any negative feedback removed. Just make sure that you get an admission where e-bay can verify it before you tell him to get lost.

Any idea why he'd want to roll back to 6.1?

testicle

Was 6.5 an official ROM?

Victor

You just might end up with a different phone from the one you sent him. Common scam.

A Dub in Glasgo

I would tell him not to bother posting it back as he ain't getting a refund. If he does post it back, refuse to accept the package.

Joseph

6.5 that was on it was a more finger friendly version so not official but worked fine he just didn't seem to like it. It was screenshotted as being that version though. Changing versions would have been no problem for him as long as he knew what he was doing.

I'm going to tell him that I'll not be accepting a return for it because it's not in its original condition and not my fault the phone isn't working.

RE refusing package at the door, what happens if there is no return address on the package?

On the negative feedback, I have ebay messages from him stating exactly what he did and exactly what error he created - will ebay remove his negative feedback if thats the case?

In the event he wants to take it further what happens?

Cheers

ttm

Has the buyer started a dispute yet?

Joseph

No haven't let him know that I won't be accepting a refund yet, what happens in the event of a dispute?

ttm

Deaddude wrote: »

No haven't let him know that I won't be accepting a refund yet, what happens in the event of a dispute?

How to win a Paypal dispute for Buyers and Sellers should tell you everything you need to know

delllat

ur screwed either way ,thats why i stopped using ebay and paypal and i was a powerseller selling 0000s per month
its too heavily stacked in favour of the buyer

you are going to end up with a broken phone or negative feedback or both

he is going to end up with a full refund and u are powerless to prevent it

he could have dropped that phone down the toilet for all u know and invented the software problem

drBill

He's taking the mick. Basically he bought something from you in working order, destroyed it of his own accord, and expects you to foot the bill.
Even if you do did take it back, he'd have to reimburse you for destroying it.
Not a leg to stand on, hope he doesn't give you too much grief.

jor el

Take the money out of your Paypal account now, if possible. If he starts a dispute, the money will be frozen until it's resolved, at which point there is a chance that you could lose it.

A Dub in Glasgo

If the buyer claims 'Item Not As Described' to Paypal and returns it via a trackable means, he will get a refund from Paypal. The only thing that may work against him is the emails from him.

Max Power1

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

If the buyer claims 'Item Not As Described' to Paypal and returns it via a trackable means, he will get a refund from Paypal. The only thing that may work against him is the emails from him.

yep - if the buyer claims its not as described and sends it back via a trackable method then the buyer will get their refund. System very weighted towards the buyer.. as mentioned above, withdraw your funds now!

delllat

even if u withdraw the cash from ur paypal acc

i think paypal will bill your credit card to give the buyer a refunnd

if u dont have a credit card /bank acc attached to ur account and they cant claw back the money they will ban u for life from paypal and this ban wll include not only this account but any future account u or anyone in your house opens

in the good old days if u got a neg u didnt deserve u could neg them straight back,now its just not worth the hassle
i still have paypal but id only use it as a buyer now

Joseph

This is ridiclous, I've gone ahead and withdrawn the funds out.

If he does send it back should I refuse delivery? If there is no return address on it what will happen it?

I have emails from him clearing stating what he did to cause the error, partly quoted below:

After I received it, I didn't like the Windows
Mobile 6.5 (cos a few features were dodgy on it)
so I installed the official ROM from the HTC
website. Now when I switch on the screen the
colours go bizarre (they're like 8 bit or
something).

I then proceeded to explain that it could be a number of things that he did incorrectly when changing versions and offered a few suggestions to be tried at his own risk. I said that it wasn't in its original condition anymore (which it obviously isnt as hes admitted) and he replied

First of all I didn't "create" any problem. I
merely installed the official, original ROM, the
way it was meant to be. If it's having problems
with that, then there's obviously a problem with
the phone itsself, not with the ROM I installed on
it since it works perfectly on the rest of the HTC
HDs for which it was designed.

I would have created the problem had I damaged it
physically. Besides you can always revert it back
to the original ROM whenever u like. As for me,
I'm gonna have to send the phone back I'm afraid
cos if it doesn't work on this ROM (which is
official from HTC), then it's no good to me. I'll
send post it back on registered post on Monday.

Joseph

As a compromise should I offer to have a look at the phone and see can I install 6.1 myself at his own risk of course with no guarantees that it will work because I don't know what he's done to it or is that too risky?

ttm

Whats the time scale? If you can drag it out to 45 days then do so. I think you might be dealing with a retard so just play for time and if he sends it back the cheapest method with no tracking then say nothing. Not fair but the buyer does seem to be a plank and is expecting you to refund for his stupidity.

Joseph

Hes said hes going to post it back tomorrow with registered post and now has said hes going to open a paypal dispute

I'm asking you nicely to give me a refund for if
you do not comply, I will make a claim to paypal
and will get my money back. I've done it before
and I can do it again trust me!

jor el

Tell him to restore thr 6.5 ROM and verify it works before he returns it. If he can't do this, then he's bricked the phone, and it'll be no good to you either.

If he sends it anyway, refuse to accept the delivery. If there's no return address, that's his problem and not yours. He'll have to prove you received it back before he gets any refund, and he won't be able to do this if you don't accept it. If you do accept it, regardless of whether it works or not, or if it can be restored or not, you will probably lose the claim.

Victor

Deaddude wrote: »

Hes said hes going to post it back tomorrow with registered post and now has said hes going to open a paypal dispute

I'm asking you nicely to give me a refund for if you do not comply, I will make a claim to paypal and will get my money back. I've done it before and I can do it again trust me!

Sounds like a professional returner.

Joseph

He has opened a dispute with paypal:

I received this phone with WM 6.5, not the default OS of HTC HD. I found a few problems with this OS such as freezing up during booting and also I couldn't adjust the backlight function so I decided to go to the HTC website and install the official ROM from the manufacturer on it. I followed all the instructions given during the installation exactly and the installation went smoothly. The problem started however when the device reset once the installation had finished. The screen colours went bizarre. The problem got fixed once I switched the screen off and then swithced it back on again. This however only worked until the next reset. I have done ROM upgrades numerous times on various devices and never have I encountered a problem like this so this clearly implies that the problem was in the phone before he sold it to me as if the phone was in "full working order" as I was told, ROM upgrades, from the MANUFACTURER shouldn't cause problems like this one.

Any tips on how I should respond?

ttm

As far as I can tell the buyer has a good enough story for PayPal as they aren't going to want to get technical about stuff.

All you can say is that the buyer has modified the phone in a process that can sometimes go wrong and took a risk which is his problem and not yours.

But hopefully there will be soome better answers

A Dub in Glasgo

Did you take the serial (IMEI) number of the phone before sending it?

Joseph

Yes I have the IMEI number

A Dub in Glasgo

On what basis did he dispute this? Not as described?

Joseph

Yes not as described with the message I quoted above

bryaner

I want to choke the buyer!!

KrazyKazzz

He sounds like a complete JOKER to be honest.... Everyone who knows anything about phones know that rolling them back to a previous OS CAN cause issues for android phones!!!

Did you advertise the phone with WM 6.5??? If so, see where he wrote ''I received this phone with WM 6.5, not the default OS of HTC HD. I found a few problems with this OS such as freezing up during booting and also I couldn't adjust the backlight function'' This is the point in which he should have returned the phone or looked for a refund.

Instead he said ''so I decided to go to the HTC website and install the official ROM from the manufacturer on it''

Being honest, if he found an 'Issue' before he started messing with the phone, its at that point he should have contacted you and not after he added to the 'issues' he claims there was.... If you put it like that to ebay and say you would have accepted the return in the first instance.... then they may just go your way.

Joseph

Excellent point Kaz, I would have accepted the return if he had informed me of an issue before started messing around with it. I adviertised it clearly as WM 6.5.

I think he may have messed it up by not having the correct SPL on it but thats not my fault only contacted me after he messed it up

KrazyKazzz

Well I reckon if you say it as I did above, ya might just be lucky. Why should you be stung eh?!!!! Nah I wouldnt accept it either if he posts it back.

On a lighter note, do you have anymore or an ebay page I can look at?? I'm in the market for an Android phone for my boyfriend

Joseph

No more phones at the moment unfortunately Kaz, just to note though that the HD isn't an Android phone its a windows mobile phone

If you're looking for an Android phone I reccommend the Google Nexus or if your not too pushed about having an android phone I'd get the HD2 (brand new ebay w/ 8GB card for 470 euro) I'll find link for you if you want

KrazyKazzz

Deaddude wrote: »

No more phones at the moment unfortunately Kaz, just to note though that the HD isn't an Android phone its a windows mobile phone

If you're looking for an Android phone I reccommend the Google Nexus or if your not too pushed about having an android phone I'd get the HD2 (brand new ebay w/ 8GB card for 470 euro) I'll find link for you if you want

Ahhh ok.. So much for me thinkin i knew about phones lol. I think i just presumed the HTC's were all Android phones.. Obviously don't listen to the other half as much as I thought

Its an Android phone he wants... I'll take a look at the Google Nexus so.. Thanks a mill for that... He has plenty of windows phones and i prob would have surprised him with a phone that was of no use to him only for ya!! lol

Any luck with your buyer today? Hope it was resolved easily.

longhalloween

Prob changed the OS to play games or something. If youre in doubt, empty your paypal account into your bank account and delete your card details. That might stop them debiting you, but in fairness just explain to Paypal if he opens a complaint against you.

delllat

taking out the money doesnt solve it completely though
if ebay and paypal decide to refund the buyer his account will be blacklisted until the debt is put right ,this makes it almost impossible to be an ebay seller

also hes gonna get a negative feedback from the buyer which will never looks good when ur selling hi-end phones

Joseph

I've responded to the dispute as best I could and escalated it to a claim, I'll let you know the outcome!

Max Power1

Deaddude wrote: »

I've responded to the dispute as best I could and escalated it to a claim, I'll let you know the outcome!

any word?

Darksaga87

Ive had so much trouble being an ebay seller, this is the exact position I nearly ended up in.

Only use ebay as a buyer IMO.

Ive been following this thread, very interested to see how it get resolved.

Joseph

Just got an email this morning...

We have concluded our investigation and have decided in your favor. Any
funds that may have been temporarily held have been returned to your
account.


Won out in the end! I clearly stated exactly what he did, quoting him in his messages and also when he made the paypal dispute he started mentioning new things that was wrong with it that I had never heard of before!

Joseph

Here is my response to the paypal dispute incase anyone is interested:

On 19/03/10 (day item was delivered) buyer contacted me to say that he "didn't like the Windows Mobile 6.5" that was on the phone (as clearly advertised on the listing). He took it upon himself to downgrade to Windows Mobile 6.1 - which if not done correctly by having corresponding SPL and ROM versions will cause the phone serious errors.After he installed the downgraded version (which would have install perfectly if installed correctly) he said that "Now when I switch on the screen the colours go bizarre". A problem I have never encountered and has been caused by incorrect installation.The buyer should have contacted me when he found the "issue" (read: "features" he didn't like) before downgrading to 6.1 and causing the serious error. A refund would have been issued at this point without delay.The first time I heard of any problems with "booting" and the "backlight function" was when the dispute was filled. I offered a no quibble refund policy so long as the item could be returned in the ORIGINAL condition - which is now impossible as the buyer has caused the error - which was non-existent until the buyer attempted the downgrade.It is clear that the buyer has caused this error himself and is now trying to unload it back onto me and cause me financial hardship in doing so. He clearly admitted to causing the error on the device by downgrading and should have contacted me before doing so for a refund instead of messing the device.

Darksaga87

Nicely done man. Has he contacted you since? (or can he now that it is resloved.?)

Joseph

Haven't heard anything from him since, doubt he will since now he can't do anything

Darksaga87

Id love to send a textless message, just this:

A Dub in Glasgo

Well done, you have managed to get the one person in payal with some commonsense!

Kepti

Congrats Deaddude. Justice prevails.

delllat

must be 1 in a million cases where they took the sellers side in a dispute

probably helpled that u had the emails saying the buyer "altered" the phones software thouogh

99% of times they go wiith the buyer

Darksaga87

If your a genuine seller, you shouldnt have much to worry about.

delllat

apart from idiots,scammers and extrotionate fees