Would you intervene?

Sid_Justice

This type of thing has come up on the forum before but I'd like to have a bash no pun intended at the theme again.

Kevin Myers, columnist with the Irish Indepenent (bit of a troll imo) talks about it with George Hook.

George Hook asked him if he would intervene if he say George getting assaulted on the street and Myers said he wouldn't. He says he's not a tough guy and wouldn't really be capable of stopping a violent person committing assault, he'd probably just get hurt himself.

(the video is referenced in an after hours thread on board, i can find the link if someone wants to hear his own words).

The reason I'm asking here is because certain people here, may as a result of their martial arts, might think they'd be capable of intervening and preventing a serious assault. Would you?

Personally speaking, I've never walked by or watched a fella getting battered in town but the only times I've ever stuck my nose in an assault was when I really don't think it was that serious and probably were just two "friends" with two much drink throwing wild digs.

If it were some 'scumbags' who looked really dogdy (drugs, knives etc.) I'd probably be a lot less likely to interfere.

yomchi

Don't think I would to be honest. It would depend on the situation. I definitely wouldn't intervene if it were Myers getting a beating, I might even join in.

Zen65

Sid_Justice wrote: »

The reason I'm asking here is because certain people here, may as a result of their martial arts, might think they'd be capable of intervening and preventing a serious assault. Would you?

If we are not talking about a family member being attacked, I think it's a question that one decides upon only when faced with that situation. We probably all like to think we'd uphold justice, but how do you know if that's what you'd be doing?

Is the guy who's doing the hitting right now the attacker, or is he the victim hitting back? It's hard to know unless you've watched the entire event unfold from the beginning. Would intervening make any material difference? Let's face it if the "victim" (assuming you know who the victim is) is a bigger, stronger guy than you, why would you believe that your training makes you any better equipped to survive the attack? Training is not necessarily any better than physical advantage. Of course two is better than one, but your primary duty of care is to yourself and your family.

That being said, I'd like to believe that I would intervene in cases where I had no doubt about who the aggressor was. In my limited experience, the best intervention is verbal ("hey buddy, I've already called the gardaí so you'd best feck off now!!"). If there were multiple attackers, where my own chances of self-preservation were limited, I think I'd need to believe the victim was in danger of certain death before putting my own survival on the line. Call the gardaí, take photos with your phone to help in any subsequent prosecution, but be slow to offer up your own life for the life of another if the chances of either of you surviving looks slim. There may be "honor" in such a death, but the practical reality is that it's likely to turn a tragedy into a double tragedy.

This has always been the advice I offer my own kids if they were to witness a sibling being attacked. It is similar to the advice I offered them should they see a sibling drowning in the water. I know of more than one family who have lost two, three and more family members where each went to the aid of another in the water (and in one case, a house fire) and the result was that all perished.

On a more humorous note, I once came across a situation while out walking with my good wife. Two young female gardaí pulled up in a car to three foreign nationals who were being loud and creating a disturbance in a public place. There was nobody else around on this day, however. As the gardaí began asking questions, searching the men's car and so forth my wife became concerned about the risk to the two ladies - faced as they were with the possible threat of violence from these large men, and she "instructed" me to stay in attendance in case my help was needed. Apparently in her reasoning, I was either indestructible, or expendable. Fortunately for everyone, my assistance was not needed and the gardaí handled the situation very well.

Zen65

yomchi wrote: »

I definitely wouldn't intervene if it were Myers getting a beating, I might even join in.

Agreed. I would consider this a scientific test of whether or not the pen really was mightier than the sword!



Z

Boston

Sid_Justice wrote: »

Personally speaking, I've never walked by or watched a fella getting battered in town but the only times I've ever stuck my nose in an assault was when I really don't think it was that serious and probably were just two "friends" with two much drink throwing wild digs.

If it were some 'scumbags' who looked really dogdy (drugs, knives etc.) I'd probably be a lot less likely to interfere.

That sounds like a recipe for getting your head kicked in. So you step in, man handle one friend and suddenly the two decide to forget their differences and turn on you?

Zen65 wrote: »

If we are not talking about a family member being attacked, I think it's a question that one decides upon only when faced with that situation. We probably all like to think we'd uphold justice, but how do you know if that's what you'd be doing?

Well thats the thing, it's not a civilians job to up hold justice, infact "the man" is more interested in making an example of those who try to, then punishing "scum".

As you said though, you can't really know a situation unless you see it from the start, and even then you can't be 100%. You may rush in and attack the victim thus opening yourself up to charges. A mate of mine whose a bouncer recounted how he was escorting a drunken lad off the premises when a guy just appeared out of no where and headed the chap he was removing. Turns out the drunken lad had sexually assaulted the attackers girlfriend. Doesn't make the head butting OK, but certainly puts a different spin on it. What might seem random and unprovoked will often appear less so when you have the full picture.

Barry.Oglesby

I've intervened on two occasions. Once was a fairly simple case of some lads getting a bloke on the ground and beginning to tee off, me and my mate went over and just shouted that he'd had enough and pulled two away from him. The other two lads continued their merry dance for a bit and then started in on us but it never came to blows. The lad got straight up and went after one of the lads who had been kicking him and then we had to pull them apart. I don't think there were any innocent parties there and we left when it became clear that these guys were going to keep going at each other. By all accounts afterwards, the lad who had been getting a kicking had started it, but whatever had happened he was the one most keen to keep it going. The second time was a classic domestic dispute. A guy punched his girlfriend across the road from us, and we ran over to stop it. After a bit of scuffle, the girl jumped on my friends back and proceeded to try to remove his eyeballs with her fingernails. After he got her off him, the queue for the club we had been standing at, most of whom had seen the original incident turned on us and in particular my friend who is Nigerian. If there was any doubt in their mind as to what had happened, it seemed to be sealed by the fact that one of us was black.

So two interventions, two bad results. I'm not sure what I'd do if I went out tonight and saw something similar. I'm no fan of Myer's politics but occasionally he hits the jackpot, and probably has on this occassion. That being said, there's more to stopping a fight/attack than jumping into the fray. Like someone said, shouting, getting a group of people together, taking photos/video are better than walking by and doing nothing.

Sid_Justice

Hook actually read out a similar comment, a lad said of course he'd intervene, only to give Myers a few digs himself! Myer's didn't take it humourously at all and went on to lose the plot calling the anonymous tweeter an arsehole and a gob****e.

Boston

A gang of teenagers attacked a mother with a baby and her friend/sister in Stephens green. I was the only one to step in of all the people who were closer. It's left me rather disgusted with society.

A young female, clearly high, started kicking and punching at, though just barely missing, a baby in the arms of it's mother. Three others (males) stood around in a semi circle laughing. When the mother's companion intervened, the high bint started throwing punches either side of her head at which point the bint got a slap in the face and the rest of the gang dragged the bint away a few steps.

The "alpha male" of the pack of **** heads stood there eying up the two women, clearly intent on making more of it. I arrived on scene just then from across the green having seen the events unfold. Panic and fear was clear in the two women's faces.They'd obviously though I'd arrived to attack them. I asked if they were ok, and when they answered I clamly began walking towards the gang of youths. I commanded them to "fuk off out of here". They took it on board and felt.

I don't know what prompted the attack, nor why no one did anything. Perhaps it was because the two women were foreign? I do know that when I saw those kicks going towards the babies head all though of self preservation went out the window.