what to do

LegacyUser

to start im the owner of a small business, my problem is the people i have working for me are on a different non recession planet completely and i fear the business may fail from this. they havent had any job losses, pay cuts or had to work longer hours, ive tried to prevent that but its going to be innevitable if things dont change. i have had several talks with them to this effect but nothing has changed. we have more than enough business available to us to keep the company going and im working about 60-70 hours a week,from this im out of the office a lot. when i ring the office frequently the phone isnt picked up or goes to 4-5 rings and i can always hear chat and laughter in the background, i get emails from customers every day (we do a lot of wholesale business and i know a lot of our customers) complaining that deadlines were not met or they werent called back etc. the working hours are 9.30-5.30, everyday they saunter through the office at 9.30 and start setting up, usually getting a cup of tea before they open the computers to actually start work. Every day at 5.30 there is nobody in the office, as im not always there i worry aboutwhat goes on in my absense when this is the regular.

the business is there to be made for us if the staff picked themselves up and did the job they should be doing, i have had talks with all of tthem and said if it doesnt change then there will be pay cuts or job losses, no change. Other than starting to fire people is there anything else i can do to save my company? thanks for any advice

dudara

The tone of a business if often set by the boss/owner. So that's where you've got to start to fix the problems.

If firing staff or cutting wages is what is needed, then that's what you have to do.

wmpdd3

OP

You need a way of measuring your staff, it seems they think they are doing a good job if they turn up.

They need to know whats expected of them every week and how they are performing week on week, if they are improving then fair enough but if not then you have weeks of documented inferior work in front of you which will make it much easier to demote / let them go.

It may be worth your while offering one employee a little more responsibility / wage to delivery what you need when your not there. In the long run this could save you a lot of money.

good luck

dan_d

I think you need to appoint a manager. Either from within, or maybe better, bring someone new in, to keep an eye on what's going on and organise the place. And if you don't already have it, I'd be installing a clock-in system, particularly if you're not there all the time. If the office hours are 9.30 to 5.30, I'd be requesting them to be at their desks at 9am, if for no other reason than they are ready to go at 9.30. Try and come up with something that can be done in that half hour that would require the extra time.If the clock in/out system shows them coming late and leaving early, sit down with one or two and take it out of their wages. I hate to say it, but all you've to do is make an example of one or two of them, for the others to cop on.
Also, it does start at the top.I should point out that there is probably one or two particularly bad culprits. If you could weed them out, you might find the rest fall into order pretty quick.
I know I sound ruthless, but desperate times, and all that.Plus it's your business and it's your reputation that's on the line here.
Good luck.

MagicMarker

There are a few hundred thousand people out there who would die for a bit of work right now.

If you want to give them a wake up call then fire one of them and bring someone else in, that should keep the others on their toes.

Jo King

You will have to fire someone. You have lost control of your workers. Until you get tough they will ruin the business. people are creatures of habit. Your workers have got bad habits. It takes a long time to change habits. Until someone is fire and each of them realise that they might be next, you have zero chance of turning things around. You also need to link pay with targets. Higher turnover means a bonus. Lower turnover means door.

jinka

Perhaps the staff have no respect for you and simply can't be bothered.If they get the same wage regardless of what they do,they will do very little. My company is like this and it's more down to the boss never giving any appreciation,motivation, bonus or anything to look forward to. I mean the staff are superb in terms of time keeping etc and most tasks but quite simply the guy has lost the office.

Why do you need to come onto a message board to discuss ? Can you not sort it out yourself?

make an example of someone if you have to

People need structure and rules

TheInquisitor

You've got to be firm. They are tkaing the piss with you and clearly have no respect for you. If they are easily replaceable id replace them all, or if thats not an option reduce their wages by 20% and be much stricter with them. Shouting goes a long way some times

shoegirl

It definitely sounds that you have been very lax and that they are taking the piss. In fairness, no matter how tough the manager, there are always one or who who abuse procedure.

Bring in a disciplinary procedure and a reiteration of what is expected to happen if people repeated don't measure up. You need to have measures in place for people to live up to and objectives ways to check this. Timesheets sometimes are ok but to be honest where I work a lot of people totally fabricate theirs.

Explain that if the situation continues you will have no choice but to introduce short time working and/or pay cuts and there isn't really an option on this for you.

You might benefit from some training on management from Fas or a local college, also check out the Entemp website for best practice in putting together disciplinary procedures that are fair.

Eoin

This might not work for your type of business, but why not try the stand-up meeting used in AGILE software development.

This is a daily meeting at the start of the day for about 10 minutes. It's called a stand-up meeting because it's supposed to be relatively informal and not drag on - if you're all standing up, you won't go on and on. Each person gives an update on what they're working on, and if there are any impediments.

Anyway, this means that you're giving your staff a firm start time every day, and it also means that they're communicating to you what they're doing for the day so there shouldn't be any surprises about delays for clients.

As shoegirl says, either follow or introduce a disciplinary procedure.

jinka

jinka wrote: »

Why do you need to come onto a message board to discuss ? Can you not sort it out yourself?

Why does anyone discuss anything on message boards? Just to get some opinions, tips, feedback etc

OP you seriously need to get tough on this. Don't agree about the shouting thing, could leave yourself open to bullying accusations. Iron fist in a velvet glove, that's the best approach. Avoid the 'David Brent' trying to be everybodys friend approach as well, if that is an issue for you. They're not your friends, and will respect you more if you stay relatively detached from them

LegacyUser

thanks for replies everyone, in short i know its looking like i need to fire someone, id prefer not to have to do that for obvious reasons,especially as the business is there but its just the laziness that we arent taking the business. ive had several discussions including one on ones with some members but unfortunately with very little results. i have managed much larger teams with great success in the past albeit this is a different enviroment. its so frustrating to see the business is there but the people i pay arent bothered to take it. its a long standing business so some people have been there for quite a while. im not an aggressive boss or a shouting boss, i would be more on the side of appreciation and encouragement with a bit of you cant be serious.

the staff get training here to move up in the business we are in and i would be hoping to give out two promotions this year, again they are aware of this but nothing has been changing. it does take a long time to get train someone to the level so it would be preferential not to have someone who is trained leave and to bring in someone who will take 6 months to get to there level. although surely with the amount of unemployment i could find someone who has experience of this business which wouldnt take as much time to train. also the office is not in dublin so sometimes i feel the staff just dont have any ambition. although there has to be some ambitious people that want to better in their job outside of dublin!! i had tried to be in the office more but given the amount of wholesale business i bring in i couldnt afford to be in the office any more time than i am.


anyhow thanks for the suggestions, unfortunately i was hoping for something that i hadnt tried other than firing someone/people but it looks like thats the only option available to me.

dh0661

op here wrote: »

unfortunately i was hoping for something that i hadnt tried other than firing someone/people but it looks like thats the only option available to me.

OP - IMO you need a office manager, maybe place the job title @ sales executive, with a performance bonus.

the_syco

help please wrote: »

the working hours are 9.30-5.30, everyday they saunter through the office at 9.30 and start setting up, usually getting a cup of tea before they open the computers to actually start work.

I work in a large multinational company, and I have to be logged into my phone and "auto-in" at 8am. Maybe look into getting software to monitor who is not auto-in by 9:35am, and give them a warning?

lemon_sherbert

Just to add, if you are going to go down the road of dismissing someone, unless you follow a disciplinary procedure (warnings, documentary evidence of reasons for dismissal etc.) you are opening yourself up to the possibility of unfair dismissals cases being brought against you. You should educate yourself on the best way to comply with your legal obligations in this regard, making sure to protect yourself against legal settlements.

jimoc

And if you do have to let someone go and need a replacement and you're in the limerick area my wife is looking for a job

jinka

TheInquisitor wrote: »

You've got to be firm. They are tkaing the piss with you and clearly have no respect for you. If they are easily replaceable id replace them all, or if thats not an option reduce their wages by 20% and be much stricter with them. Shouting goes a long way some times

If you shouted at me i'd be showing you the door-actually i'd put you through it.
It's not the bloody army mate or the dark ages.

Any manager who can't motivate his staff should not be a manager. Give people respect and something to aim at-like a bonus or reward.

Eoin

jinka wrote: »

If you shouted at me i'd be showing you the door-actually i'd put you through it.
It's not the bloody army mate or the dark ages.

Any manager who can't motivate his staff should not be a manager. Give people respect and something to aim at-like a bonus or reward.

If they're acting like children when the boss is away, then they haven't earned any respect. Seriously, there are people crying out for a chance of a job these days.

Fizzical

As an employee I find this disturbing. The workers are doing their job albeit not as enthusiastically as you'd like - so you're going to sack them?

Motivation isn't only achieved by fear. In fact that's the worst tactic you could employ for your business.

As other posters have said, try an office manager and incentives. There should be something in it for the employee to pull in extra business, be it monetary reward, competition against the others or plain job satisfaction.

What's wrong in the office that there's no satisfaction or pride for them in developing the business?

Maybe it's seen as an advantage to you alone if business increases and no advantage to the workers themselves. People need goals and recognition and it doesn't have to be anything major sometimes.

Motivation. Leadership. If your strengths lie elsewhere, get someone who's good at managing and leading staff.

If people are well treated and see a purpose and advantage to their work, if they feel an ownership of the business, they'll work hard and enthusiastically.

Eoin

But it sounds like they're not doing their job in the first place. You shouldn't have to incentivise people to do the basics of their job.

It sounds like they're simply taking the piss and making the most out of the boss being away. That's just laziness and a lack of respect for the company.

The OP wrote:

i get emails from customers every day ... complaining that deadlines were not met or they werent called back etc. the working hours are 9.30-5.30, everyday they saunter through the office at 9.30 and start setting up, usually getting a cup of tea before they open the computers to actually start work. Every day at 5.30 there is nobody in the office, as im not always there i worry aboutwhat goes on in my absense when this is the regular.

jinka

Fizzical wrote: »

As an employee I find this disturbing. The workers are doing their job albeit not as enthusiastically as you'd like - so you're going to sack them?

Motivation isn't only achieved by fear. In fact that's the worst tactic you could employ for your business.

As other posters have said, try an office manager and incentives. There should be something in it for the employee to pull in extra business, be it monetary reward, competition against the others or plain job satisfaction.

What's wrong in the office that there's no satisfaction or pride for them in developing the business?

Maybe it's seen as an advantage to you alone if business increases and no advantage to the workers themselves. People need goals and recognition and it doesn't have to be anything major sometimes.

Motivation. Leadership. If your strengths lie elsewhere, get someone who's good at managing and leading staff.

If people are well treated and see a purpose and advantage to their work, if they feel an ownership of the business, they'll work hard and enthusiastically.

you have hit the nail on the head.

toopybinoo

It seems the only way to resolve this is to hire competent people who care about your company and thier job. There is no way customers should have the grounds to make complaints, as it shouldnt be happening. The only way is to find new people. Hire me

DubTony

I am stunned at this thread (well, the opening post anyway).

I'm going to be blunt here. Please regard it as tough love. I don't mean to be harsh, but a business owner has a duty, firstly to himself, to ensure that his business is run efficiently and competently. Then his duty is to his staff and customers in that order. You are sorely lacking in those duties.

If you'd posted this in Entrepreneurial & Business Management, you'd have been berated and slagged off like you've never been in your life.

It's time to get your finger out and take a good hard look at how you're running your business. In my opinion you're making a complete mess of it. When I hear that customers are contacting you and complaining about phones not being answered and calls not being returned I hear huge alarm bells ringing. You're quite fortunate that you've got customers that will let you know this. Most just go somewhere else and never let you know why.

Solutions? If you want to be hard nosed about it (which I doubt) sack someone. If you've anyone working for you employed by you who has been there less than a year, they have little or no rights, so an appeal shouldn't be an issue. You can always use the recession as the excuse and let the rest of them know that if things don't get better quickly there'll be more people going.

The softly softly approach won't work in my opinion. It seems to me that these guys are way too comfortable in their lax attitude. Address the time keeping issue straight away. Get a cheap time clock and have everyone clock in and clock out. When people are late or leave early deduct the appropriate amount from their pay.

Show them copies of the emails you've received from your customers (you may want to delete customer details from these) and let them know that if there any further complaints heads will roll.

You are doing nobody any favours by allowing this to happen. You'll lose business which will mean letting people go anyway. You'll find yourself working more hours and eventually getting less money.

Finally if you've employees sitting around talking and laughing all day, and you're delegating tasks that are getting done while there's lots of messing going on, you've got too many employees.

Good luck with this. I see a tough road ahead for you. If you're a member of ISME or similar, get in touch with them and ask for their help. At least you'll get the right information there.

LegacyUser

i should give more info but dont want to give to much. i took the company over so this isnt my team thats in place. i have managed several teams in slightly different enviroments quite successfully. i have tried bonus initiatives and discussed the possibilities of job losses or paycuts and some have disciplinarys against them. absolutely zero change from them. all complaints from customers have been passed on to staff, most were met with no reactio , some with a laugh or a derogatory comment about the customer being fussy or irritating. i have told them that in no uncertain terms is thhis to happen again or are they to talk about our business with anything but the highest respect. there seems to be no ambition whatsoever in the office. when i mentioned the possibility of an office supervisor role not one person enquired about it.

to the posters that have said they disagree with me firing people who are doing there job if you re read my post that is not what i have sad at all, these people are half doing there job, taking time off when im not here, arriving late, leaving early and not doing basics such as calling customers back and answering phones.

i have banned newspapers, magazines, internet time and ipods from the working day with the exception of break times, the repsonse was that they are all collectively joining a union to contest this new rule. i discussed with them all as a group how i felt they were not doing there jobs and clerly if there not doing there jobs or calling customers back then they shouldnt have time for newspapers or surfing the net on work time. one said its a basic human right to be able to read the newspaper???

at the moment i think pay cuts will just give them further cause to feeel victimised. im scheduling a one on one chat with every member of staff to discuss performance and let them knowing i am looking at letting people go as the business is not being pulled in due to poor performance. hopefully it will have a reaction change but as i have already tried so many different options i feel there will be no difference and i will hve no choice but to look at letting people go. many thanks for all contributions to the thread.

dudara

You take to take legal advice before considering letting anyone go. You will need to demonstrate that they failed to meet repeated warnings to improve their performance before you let them go, otherwise they could bring a case for wrongful dismissal against you.