Pharmacist Question please on Melatonin 3mg

Joey the lips

Hi Folks

Wondered if I could ask a pharmacist lookin in a question.

I have been perscribed melatonin for my child. This is not available under the general medical card as "Its not coded"

However my pharmacist is going to try for it under the long term illness program as my child will be on it for a while.

Are you aware if its available under long term illness?????

I think i have the sort of pharmacist that would tell me it is even though it is not and while I appreciate and am thankful for there jesture I would not like to see them out of pocket

Kurtosis

Joey the lips wrote: »

Hi Folks

Wondered if I could ask a pharmacist lookin in a question.

I have been perscribed melatonin for my child. This is not available under the general medical card as "Its not coded"

However my pharmacist is going to try for it under the long term illness program as my child will be on it for a while.

Are you aware if its available under long term illness?????

I think i have the sort of pharmacist that would tell me it is even though it is not and while I appreciate and am thankful for there jesture I would not like to see them out of pocket

Hey, I'm not a pharmacist but I can try and help a bit!

The HSE run the LTI scheme, they have on their website this info:

On approval by HSE persons who suffer from one or more of a schedule of illnesses are entitled to obtain, without charge, irrespective of income, necessary drugs/medicines and/or appliances under the LTI Scheme. LTI cardholders are only approved for drugs relating to their Long Term Illness.

There are 15 specified LTI Conditions:
• Mental Handicap
• Hydrocephalus
• Cerebral Palsy
• Muscular Dystrophy
• Haemophilia
• Diabetes Mellitus
• Diabetes Insipidus
• Epilepsy
• Multiple Sclerosis
• Parkinsonism
• Cystic Fibrosis
• Phenylketonuria
• Acute Leukaemia
• Mental Illness (under 16 years of age)
• Spina Bifida

Drugs, Medicines and Non Drug Items reimbursable under the LTI Scheme are intended for the treatment of the primary condition and are approved by the HSE Office in which the eligible person resides.

So in short, melatonin is uncoded so is not covered on other drug schemes (i.e. Medical card, DPS). If your child gets approved for the LTI scheme (or is already apart of it), since melatonin is not a very common treatment for the 15 illnesses (unlike say insulin for diabetes), your pharmacist will have to contact your local HSE office to see if they will approve the medicine to be covered by the LTI scheme. This is done on a case by case basis so it can really be at the whim of the local HSE office, so it's not really possible to say whether it will definitely be covered or not.

Hope this helps!

bleg

Sure it's not the hardship scheme your pharmacist is trying?

anotherlostie

The Melatonin situation is unfortunate. Until recently, Melatonin was not available in Ireland, or the rest of Europe. Now a new product called Circadin has come onto the market but it is only licensed for short term treatment of insomnia in people over 55. Because of this limited indication, the DoH decided not to make it available for reimbursement on schemes (including DPS and GMS), since they figure there are enough other treatments already available.

Nonoperational

I don't see it being allowed on the LTI scheme I'm afraid. It would be worth trying the hardship route. How much did you pay for 1 months worth? It has to be over €30 for you to be eligable for hardship.

Kurtosis

gpf101 wrote: »

I don't see it being allowed on the LTI scheme I'm afraid. It would be worth trying the hardship route. How much did you pay for 1 months worth? It has to be over €30 for you to be eligable for hardship.

Just a quick question, am I wrong in thinking that the hardship scheme can only be availed of by holders of a medical card?

matc66

penguin88 wrote: »

Just a quick question, am I wrong in thinking that the hardship scheme can only be availed of by holders of a medical card?

Nope you're not wrong you're right. Predictably you have to have a medical card to avail of the hardship scheme.

Joey the lips

gpf101 wrote: »

I don't see it being allowed on the LTI scheme I'm afraid. It would be worth trying the hardship route. How much did you pay for 1 months worth? It has to be over €30 for you to be eligable for hardship.

Will you please explain the hardship scheme.

I have not paid for them yet however I think they are only about 20 Euro for 30

Thanks

Kurtosis

The Hardship scheme allows people with a medical card (thanks matc66!) to get medicines that are uncoded/not covered by their medical card free of charge. However there is a stipulation that the cost per month should be at least €30, as well as the fact that all such products to be covered must be OK'd by the local HSE office and what they choose to cover is, to a large degree, at their discretion.

Joey the lips

bleg wrote: »

Sure it's not the hardship scheme your pharmacist is trying?

He never mentioned this to me. All he said was "This is not available under the general medical card. However as your so will be on it for a long time I will apply under the long term illness program."

Thanks

frodi

penguin88 wrote: »

The Hardship scheme allows people with a medical card (thanks matc66!) to get medicines that are uncoded/not covered by their medical card free of charge. However there is a stipulation that the cost per month should be at least €30, as well as the fact that all such products to be covered must be OK'd by the local HSE office and what they choose to cover is, to a large degree, at their discretion.

It should be added that the hardship scheme is falling apart in many areas. The HSE is insisting on only paying pharmacists the GMS rate for hardship medicines. As there is a lot more paperwork and hassle dealing with the hardship scheme and unlicensed medicines generally for many it is just not worth it anymore.

angeldelight

I have seen melatonin approved under the LTI scheme for a child before - in that particular case it had been prescribed by a consultant psychiatrist and was in the category of mental illness in a child. I obviously don't know your child's circumstances but the pharmacist as detailed above will need to apply to the local HSE LTI section who will make a decision on whether they will reimburse or not. Some pharmacists are now no longer taking part in the hardship scheme as they are making a loss on it given all the circumstances around it.

If it is not covered and you need to pay for it, if money happens to be tight at the minute, you can collect it on a week by week basis - you don't have to collect the full amount in one go. Depending on your pharmacist's policy that might cost a little more due to dispensing fees, but it may not, and even if it did it may help cash flow.

kig

I am on a medical card, issued under the hardship scheme, suffer from CFS and as a result have trouble with my sleep. I have tried all sorts of treatments, and am currently on Parnate, which is finally helping to a some extent. The problem is that one of the side effects is sleep disruption, and as I was suffering from this symptom before, the Parnate has just made things worse. I get some relief (and sleep) when I take Circadin, but the problem is that the HSE is refusing to cover Carcadin. According to my consultant, there is very little that I can take if I'm on Parnate, Circadin is something that doesn't clash with Parnate, but I am finding it difficult to find the extra cash every month to pay for it. We have submitted forms, and letters from doctors in support of prescribing Circadin, but the HSE bureaucracy is quite obstinate. Is there a generic alternative to Circadin, or can you get it cheaper online, or has anyone got any suggestions of how I can get through to the HSE, so that they will cover it?

L1011

You can't buy prescription medications online in Ireland. There's no other licenced preparation at the moment either (http://www.imb.ie/EN/Medicines/HumanMedicines/HumanMedicinesListing.aspx?query=MELATONIN)

kig

I'm not sure why it's sold by prescription, and then the HSE won't pay for it.

RobFowl

Mod note, as per forum charter don't ask for (or give) medical advice), getting prescription items on-line is not legal here so please do not ask about that

pc11

It's ridiculous that melatonin is hard to get here. If you know anyone travelling to Canada or the US, ask them to buy it in any supermarket, pharmacy or health food shop. A bottle of 200 tablets will cost maybe 10 dollars. I have had friends bring it over for me more than once.

You can get it over the counter in Spain but it will cost more.

locum-motion

pc11 wrote: »

It's ridiculous that melatonin is hard to get here. If you know anyone travelling to Canada or the US, ask them to buy it in any supermarket, pharmacy or health food shop. A bottle of 200 tablets will cost maybe 10 dollars. I have had friends bring it over for me more than once.

You can get it over the counter in Spain but it will cost more.

And if your friend's baggage is checked by customs, then they get a criminal record.
Unless your friend happens to have a license to import medicines, that is!

pc11

locum-motion wrote: »

And if your friend's baggage is checked by customs, then they get a criminal record.
Unless your friend happens to have a license to import medicines, that is!

I don't believe for one second that would happen. People travel with prescription medications all the time and it's never a problem. I have never heard of anyone ever having a problem like that, and and certainly not for melatonin! It's not even a drug, it's a supplement.

I personally buy medicines in Spain all the time and have never even been looked at.

Do you always carry documentation when you travel for every drug and supplement you carry with you??

kig

It is ridiculous that something like melatonin, that as I understand it, is naturally occurring, has to be bought on prescription. I think that it comes down to the pharmacist's strangle hold on the irish public, and not wanting to give it up.

Ocean Blue

kig wrote: »

It is ridiculous that something like melatonin, that as I understand it, is naturally occurring, has to be bought on prescription. I think that it comes down to the pharmacist's strangle hold on the irish public, and not wanting to give it up.

Determining whether something is a prescription controlled item is down to the Irish Medicines Board. It has nothing to do with the pharmacist. They are obliged to enforce the rules.

locum-motion

pc11 wrote: »

I don't believe for one second that would happen. People travel with prescription medications all the time and it's never a problem. I have never heard of anyone ever having a problem like that, and and certainly not for melatonin! It's not even a drug, it's a supplement.

I personally buy medicines in Spain all the time and have never even been looked at.

Do you always carry documentation when you travel for every drug and supplement you carry with you??

Re 1st bolded part: Yes, people travel with medicines that have been prescribed for them all the time, and that is not a problem. Bringing in large quantities of medicines that have not been prescribed for them is most definitely not OK.

Re 2nd bolded part: What is, and is not, a medicine/drug is not determined by your opinion, it is determined by law. In Ireland, Melatonin is legally a drug, and is only available when prescribed by a doctor.

gctest50

kig wrote: »

It is ridiculous that something like melatonin, that as I understand it, is naturally occurring, has to be bought on prescription. I think that it comes down to the pharmacist's strangle hold on the irish public, and not wanting to give it up.

If this :

kig wrote: »

It is ridiculous that something like melatonin, that as I understand it, is naturally occurring , has to be bought on prescription.

is a common enough 'feeling' you've shown why

pharmacist's strangle hold (!!!!!!) on the irish public

is needed

Heres some lad after a naturally occurring mushroom - didn't read his big book "Amanita wants to say hello"

His poisoning was really serious – after 30 delirious hours at a hospital in Watsonville where he was in IVs for dehydration and lots of oral charcoal, he was transported to UCSF we he suffered for 3-4 days and wound up with a liver transplant.
For three full weeks he was in incredible pain and thought he would die.
Five months later he is still weak and in some pain. His medicines are currently running $1500/month.

kig

I have had chronic fatigue syndrome for the last 6 yrs, which is why I can't work any more and have been forced onto the medical card (issued under the hardship scheme), and the HSE still won't pay for it. So I wouldn't count on it.

<Mod Snip>

Ocean Blue

kig wrote: »

I have had chronic fatigue syndrome for the last 6 yrs, which is why I can't work any more and have been forced onto the medical card (issued under the hardship scheme), and the HSE still won't pay for it. So I wouldn't count on it.
<mod snip> [/url]. Good Luck.

The hardship scheme is a payment scheme for pharmacists. It has nothing to do with the issuing of medical cards by the HSE. A person may have received a medical card in order to avoid undue financial hardship but it's not related to the hardship scheme as people are discussing on this thread.

locum-motion

kig wrote: »

...
In my searching though I have been told about a few ways of getting melatonin allot cheaper than I've been able to get from my pharmacist (I'm talking 1/10th of the cost). Check out... ...Good Luck.

As has been pointed out already in this thread, what you're suggesting is ILLEGAL!

RobFowl

As pointed out Melatonin is prescription only in this country, whether you agree or disagree with this please do not discuss ways to bypass this or import it as this is against the law and as such cannot be discussed here

Nonoperational

kig wrote: »

It is ridiculous that something like melatonin, that as I understand it, is naturally occurring, has to be bought on prescription. I think that it comes down to the pharmacist's strangle hold on the irish public, and not wanting to give it up.

Lets all make up nonsense and post online. Woohoo.

locum-motion wrote: »

And if your friend's baggage is checked by customs, then they get a criminal record.
Unless your friend happens to have a license to import medicines, that is!

A tub of melatonin caps wouldn't get a second look from anyone at the airport.

pc11

locum-motion wrote: »

Re 1st bolded part: Yes, people travel with medicines that have been prescribed for them all the time, and that is not a problem. Bringing in large quantities of medicines that have not been prescribed for them is most definitely not OK.

Re 2nd bolded part: What is, and is not, a medicine/drug is not determined by your opinion, it is determined by law. In Ireland, Melatonin is legally a drug, and is only available when prescribed by a doctor.

Nobody suggested importing large quantities. I said "a bottle", ie 200 tablets.

You are technically correct, but I fancy that a customs officer has 1000 better things to do than look for melatonin. The worst that would happen is confiscation, like with bottles of water. After all, these are illegal to carry on, but it's not like we get thrown in jail for it.

I've tried to travel with a knife (accidentally) and all that happened was it was cheerfully taken from me. I don't see them taking a bottle of melatonin tabs more seriously than a knife.

Tell us, do you agree that it makes sense to keep a tight control on melatonin when it's available in every health food shop in the US? Don't duck the question with technical quibbles, give your opinion.

pc11

Could we get an actual informed opinion on what's illegal and what is merely not licenced? This thread is full of vague half-information.

Mods: unless it can be established that it is illegal to bring a single bottle in for personal use, I don't see the problem with this thread.

This article discusses melatonin in the UK and I imagine it's similar here:

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-az/medicines-why-are-some-not-available-in-the-uk-762721.html

It says it's just not licenced in the UK but bringing it in personally is NOT illegal.

Can someone give an actual official source that says "OMG Melatonin is totally illegal in Ireland!"? I am sceptical.

pc11

gctest50 wrote: »

If this :



is a common enough 'feeling' you've shown why



is needed

Heres some lad after a naturally occurring mushroom - didn't read his big book "Amanita wants to say hello"

Ah here. Yes, it's a fallacy to equate natural with safe as a general proposition. But, bringing up an isolated, unrelated and extreme case is going too far, that's a red herring. Melatonin is not comparable to taking the wrong mushroom.

Kurtosis

pc11 wrote: »

Could we get an actual informed opinion on what's illegal and what is merely not licenced? This thread is full of vague half-information.

Mods: unless it can be established that it is illegal to bring a single bottle in for personal use, I don't see the problem with this thread.

This article discusses melatonin in the UK and I imagine it's similar here:

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-az/medicines-why-are-some-not-available-in-the-uk-762721.html

It says it's just not licenced in the UK but bringing it in personally is NOT illegal.

Can someone give an actual official source that says "OMG Melatonin is totally illegal in Ireland!"? I am sceptical.

Contact the Irish Medicines Board with you query so.

RobFowl

pc11 wrote: »

Could we get an actual informed opinion on what's illegal and what is merely not licenced? This thread is full of vague half-information.
<Mod snip>

Do not question mod action in thread

Greenmachine

Op if the pharmacist is not in a position to provide you with the this particular medicine: Perhaps look for a particular milk product that is on the market here a few years, that contains melatonin. I think it is called lullaby it is milked from cows particularly early in the morning when the milk naturally contains higher levels of melatonin.

locum-motion

pc11 wrote: »

...Don't duck the question with technical quibbles, give your opinion.

I do not make the rules.
I do, however, have to abide by them.

pc11

locum-motion wrote: »

I do not make the rules.
I do, however, have to abide by them.

I asked your opinion. That response is not very grown-up, to be honest.

pc11

penguin88 wrote: »

Contact the Irish Medicines Board with you query so.

Given the level of rubbish spouted in this thread, and the lack of useful info, I might even do that.

Kurtosis

pc11 wrote: »

Given the level of rubbish spouted in this thread, and the lack of useful info, I might even do that.

Well if you class not getting the answers you want to hear as "rubbish" and "useless", then please do. And let us know how you get on with your query.

sleepyheadh

Why has this thread not been stopped? I thought there was a policy of not giving out medical advice on here?

I mean, there are people advocating getting friends to stock pile drugs in the US and Canada for them, some people are questioning if melatonin is even a drug...

locum-motion

sleepyheadh wrote: »

Why has this thread not been stopped? I thought there was a policy of not giving out medical advice on here?

I mean, there are people advocating getting friends to stock pile drugs in the US and Canada for them, some people are questioning if melatonin is even a drug...

Report it if you've a specific issue. If the mods agree with you, they'll lock it.

sleepyheadh

locum-motion wrote: »

Report it if you've a specific issue. If the mods agree with you, they'll lock it.

I was just a little surprised. The mods tend to shut these things down nearly before anything could be said, but in this case things seem to have been let slide.

RobFowl

sleepyheadh wrote: »

I was just a little surprised. The mods tend to shut these things down nearly before anything could be said, but in this case things seem to have been let slide.

As locumotion says if you have a problem with a post report it. Plenty of warnings, edits and mod instructions in this thread already.