Ruby, Right or wrong to remount Kauto instead of walking him in?

Sprouts

Kauto hit that early fence hard, and finally came down in a heavy fall later in the race. Surely if you cared about the horse you would just walk him in.

The Wetherbys Chase in Exeter January 2005 came to mind where he remounted the horse to finish 2nd and the poor horse was then out injured for nearly a year. I know they now have a rule in England where you cant remount and finish a race but maybe it should be extended not being allowed to remount at all, jockeys aren't vets and dont know if the horse is hurt.

Whyno

Sprouts wrote: »

Kauto hit that early fence hard, and finally came down in a heavy fall later in the race. Surely if you cared about the horse you would just walk him in.

The Wetherbys Chase in Exeter January 2005 came to mind where he remounted the horse to finish 2nd and the poor horse was then out injured for nearly a year. I know they now have a rule in England where you cant remount and finish a race but maybe it should be extended not being allowed to remount at all, jockeys aren't vets and dont know if the horse is hurt.

Jockeys know as much about horses than anyone. Didnt ruby say in the interview aftert that he held him when the vets looked at him. If the horse got up which he did and showed no trace of injury and if infact he did recieve a quick once over from a vet i see no problem with remounting. If there was a problem ruby wouldve found out there and then.
He'll get fully checked out when he gets home to ditcheat and hopefully the all clear.

Sprouts

Not sure Whyno, When he remounted that day to be 2nd in Exeter, the Guardian the next day described him as a cowboy. ''Cowboys don't care'', and no, I didnt write that up at the M1 off ramp on the way into Dundalk racetrack.

Shane732

That's just a stupid question.

convert

There's nothing wrong with remounting a horse and riding it back after a fall. A jockey will know whether or not the horse is able for it. And if the horse looks alright before they get up on it, a jockey will know immediately when they sit up on the horse whether or not it's alright to canter back. In fairness, if a horse is walking sound and isn't too stiff, then it's more than likely all right to hack back. Sometimes a canter after a fall like that will help loosen out the horse.

And you're on the topic of horses cantering after they've had a fall, look at how many loose horses not only gallop around after the rest of the field, but actually jump the fences for the next circuit.

Hot-Rod

I dont know how u can question Ruby Walsh. The man is one of the greatest jockeys of all time and a true horse man. He adores the horse he wouldnt do anything to hurt the horse. If he thought he was ok, then he was ok.

NewApproach

Whether or not Ruby knows if the horse is fit or not is one think (I've no doubt he wouldn't have done it if he had any concern), but one things for certain, and thats that he had a better idea than us sitting at home. So why speculate if he was right or wrong, we are in no position to judge.

I just heard there that when Kauto fell yesterday, he got up and ran on a bit. Then looked back, stopped and ran back and stood beside Ruby who was just picking himself up. What a horse.

Lads Ruby would know if he was ok to be ridden back. 90% of horses would have bolted after unseating and finished the race so a slow hack back was perfectively reasonable.

UrbanSea

Hot-Rod wrote: »

I dont know how u can question Ruby Walsh. The man is one of the greatest jockeys of all time and a true horse man. He adores the horse he wouldnt do anything to hurt the horse. If he thought he was ok, then he was ok.

So you don't think you can question anything Ruby Walsh does on a horse?

Morgans

I think it was as much for the fans as anything - just to show that the horse was perfect. Which he was. If Ruby hadnt waited for the vets to check over the horse he would have some questions to answer.

mdwexford

It was a really sick looking fall, i feared the worst when it happened. Thank god he got up fine.

krustydoyle

mdwexford wrote: »

It was a really sick looking fall, i feared the worst when it happened. Thank god he got up fine.

Exactly mdwexford, jesus he hit the ground some slap and i def feared the worst, but i totally disagree with re mounting because you know never what kind of injury the horse could have and there jockeys not vets..

Sprouts

Morgans wrote: »

I think it was as much for the fans as anything - just to show that the horse was perfect. Which he was. If Ruby hadnt waited for the vets to check over the horse he would have some questions to answer.

For the fans? He wouldnt give a toss about what any racegoer thought, does he ever come across as if he does?

He wasnt perfect when he remounted him in Exeter, so how would he know this time?

convert

Sprouts wrote: »

He wasnt perfect when he remounted hin in Exeter, so how would he know this time?

The vets checked him over before Ruby remounted him. They wouldn't have let him remount had the horse not been ok.

Sprouts

Did they? Very quick ultrasound and xray then to make sure there was no torn muscles or cracked bones before Lord Ruby remounted.

UrbanSea

Lord Ruby? Would that be sarcasm:P
I wouldnt have the time of day for him to be honest.Hardly a like able person,or so he comes across on tv.

mdwexford

Sprouts wrote: »

For the fans? He wouldnt give a toss about what any racegoer thought, does he ever come across as if he does?

He wasnt perfect when he remounted him in Exeter, so how would he know this time?

Like you know what hes thinking.

Obviously the horses welfare was his number 1 concern.
Your sarcasm and bias views are laughable.

Sprouts

Just check out that race from Exeter, he doesn't care about any horses welfare. Or any punters, he was heard by one of the top Irish journos as saying ''fu** the punters''.

convert

Sprouts wrote: »

Did they? Very quick ultrasound and xray then to make sure there was no torn muscles or cracked bones before Lord Ruby remounted.

A torn muscle or cracked bone would show up immediately as a horse would step short at the very least, which both a vet and jockey would pick up on without an ultrasound or x-ray.

Sprouts

convert wrote: »

A torn muscle or cracked bone would show up immediately as a horse would step short at the very least, which both a vet and jockey would pick up on without an ultrasound or x-ray.

With the adrenalin pumping horses will run on, how many times have we seen a horse galloping on with a broken leg hanging off? Ruby didn't give a sh+t to be honest

Diggy78

Sprouts wrote: »

With the adrenalin pumping horses will run on, how many times have we seen a horse galloping on with a broken leg hanging off? Ruby didn't give a sh+t to be honest

OK, this is just a ridiculous statement. Your mind seems to be made up here and since you cant find anyone to agree with you you've come out with nonsense about adrenalin.

Do you think Ruby was in a rush to get back to the weighing room to get a good look at the Foxhunters? Is that why he couldn't walk back? Maybe he was dying to get back and talk about how he'd just lost the gold cup on an odds on shot, yea, mad keen to get back.

Ruby Walsh made a mistake at Exeter, he owned up to that, you cant just keep beating him with the same stick. The horse was fine and is fine and the only one who could have known that it was ok to canter the horse back in were Ruby and the vets.

At the end of the day, he made a decision to ride what has been shown to be a sound horse back, get over it. Whatever happened at Exeter about 4 or 5 years ago is long gone.

gscully

I assume some of you saw Ruby Walsh remount Shakervilz in the Powers Gold Cup on Sunday to finish third? I understand that remounting rules are different in Ireland, but please, don't anyone try to convince me that he actually gives a sh*t about the horses. There was good prize money to be won for third and he fancied it.

convert

gscully wrote: »

I assume some of you saw Ruby Walsh remount Shakervilz in the Powers Gold Cup on Sunday to finish third? I understand that remounting rules are different in Ireland, but please, don't anyone try to convince me that he actually gives a sh*t about the horses. There was good prize money to be won for third and he fancied it.

If the horse had gotten up and cantered/galloped homeof its own accord you wouldn't have said anything. It's only because the jockey remounted that you have taken issue. A steady hack back with a jockey is often better than uncontrolled galloping without a jockey.

gscully

convert wrote: »

If the horse had gotten up and cantered/galloped homeof its own accord you wouldn't have said anything. It's only because the jockey remounted that you have taken issue. A steady hack back with a jockey is often better than uncontrolled galloping without a jockey.

The point I'm making is that in the UK, it is forbidden to remount and resume racing. This is for the benefit of the horse's health and wellbeing. Only once a vet has given the all-clear may a jockey remount and trot the horse back to the unsaddling enclosure. The jockeys know this, yet Walsh remounted and resumed racing. He didn't break any rules, as I've said, but if he was anyway concerned about horses, he would not have remounted to race.

Horses running around after falling or unseating is common, but it is a moot point. It has nothing to do with the moral obligation of a jockey!

convert

gscully wrote: »

The point I'm making is that in the UK, it is forbidden to remount and resume racing. This is for the benefit of the horse's health and wellbeing. Only once a vet has given the all-clear may a jockey remount and trot the horse back to the unsaddling enclosure. The jockeys know this, yet Walsh remounted and resumed racing. He didn't break any rules, as I've said, but if he was anyway concerned about horses, he would not have remounted to race.

Horses running around after falling or unseating is common, but it is a moot point. It has nothing to do with the moral obligation of a jockey!

So basically your issue is that he 'finished' the race rather than the fact that he remounted. If he had fallen at the second last fence and remounted to hack the horse back (i.e. not jumped the last fence and finished the race) you wouldn't have as much of an issue with it? Even though it was a much shorter distance?

gscully

convert wrote: »

So basically your issue is that he 'finished' the race rather than the fact that he remounted. If he had fallen at the second last fence and remounted to hack the horse back (i.e. not jumped the last fence and finished the race) you wouldn't have as much of an issue with it? Even though it was a much shorter distance?

The issue I have is that he remounted. That he remounted to race made it worse. He rides as much under the UK rules as he does the Irish rules and if he knows that it's considered a bad thing for a horse to be remounted without professional approval, then he should not have done it. Just because the Irish authorities haven't made that a rule yet doesn't mean it's not morally wrong! This is not a tirade against Walsh. In the case of Kauto Star, he acted appropriately. In the case of Shakervilz, he did nothing against the rules but his actions were morally questionable, and possibly motivated by prize-money.

convert

He fell at the last fence, remounted, hacked back and finished third. The only reason the horse finished third is because there was no other finisher. The horse didn't actually 'race' - he just cantered back. Had Ruby remounted and hacked back and finished out of the prize money, there wouldn't be an issue.

I've seen many jockeys remount after falling, whether it be at the first or last fence, and there never seems to be an issue over it. The only reason this seems to have attracted attention is because the horse was deemed to have finished third and received prize money, and possibly because Ruby was the jockey.

convert

I also think this is a debate which could go on and on forever without ever reaching a conclusion....

gscully

convert wrote: »

He fell at the last fence, remounted, hacked back and finished third. The only reason the horse finished third is because there was no other finisher. The horse didn't actually 'race' - he just cantered back. Had Ruby remounted and hacked back and finished out of the prize money, there wouldn't be an issue.

I've seen many jockeys remount after falling, whether it be at the first or last fence, and there never seems to be an issue over it. The only reason this seems to have attracted attention is because the horse was deemed to have finished third and received prize money, and possibly because Ruby was the jockey.

Well, as I say, my issue is him (or any jockey) remounting. If it's wrong in the UK, it's pretty much wrong here too - purely in terms of animal welfare. The only other reason the horse finished third is because Ruby remounted

convert wrote: »

I also think this is a debate which could go on and on forever without ever reaching a conclusion....

Fair point...we'll call a halt to it so

Huntthe

I'm amazed that people think it's alright to remount a horse that has fallen.There is no way that anyone can tell what damage a horse has done to itself by simply looking at them after a fall. A horse with a broken leg will still try and run purely on adrenalin. Masterminded had a broken rib for God knows how long and Denman has a heart issue that was undetected. Horses drop dead of heart attacks quite regularly. If he remounted one of mine I'd kick his ass.....Unbelieveable.

thesandeman

Am I wrong in thinking that Shakervilz didnt actually fall at the last, but swerved to avoid a faller and Ruby fell off before remounting? Maybe Im thinking of another horse.

krustydoyle

Ted and Ruby laughing about remounting on RTE ... jesus they talk some amount of ***** at times... saying it was always safe to remount a horse after a fall... CLOWNS :rolleyes::eek:

Shane732

krustydoyle wrote: »

Ted and Ruby laughing about remounting on RTE ... jesus they talk some amount of ***** at times... saying it was always safe to remount a horse after a fall... CLOWNS :rolleyes::eek:

Let's not start this again.....

Both serious horse men so I don't know why you're calling them clowns.

krustydoyle

Shane732 wrote: »

Let's not start this again.....

Both serious horse men so I don't know why you're calling them clowns.

im not starting anything again, like ruby said there not vets so don't remount the horse and risk possible further injuries... and to repeat my point if it was my horse and he remounted it it'd be the last time he'd ride for me.

krustydoyle

krustydoyle wrote: »

im not starting anything again, like ruby said there not vets so don't remount the horse and risk possible further injuries... and to repeat my point if it was my horse and he remounted it it'd be the last time he'd ride for me.

95% of the time the horse runs on himself anyway at a much faster pace than the trot back that a remounted horse usually gets so I don't see a problem really.

nice1franko

krustydoyle wrote: »

Ted and Ruby laughing about remounting on RTE ... jesus they talk some amount of ***** at times... saying it was always safe to remount a horse after a fall... CLOWNS :rolleyes::eek:

That's not even what they said

Sprouts

The real horsemen walk a horse back after a fall and won't think of what percentage of prizemoney you could get for a place ahead of thinking maybe they could be harming the horse.

RTE has been unbearable this week with a Walsh double whammy of opinionatated opinion merchants called Father Ted and son.

finbarrk

It has been a pleasure to listen to them. They know a he'll of a lot more than me or you.

nice1franko

I've really enjoyed listening to them.

Who are these "real horsemen" we're talking about?

krustydoyle

nice1franko wrote: »

That's not even what they said

Ruby said if there was big money to be won for a place, he'd remount..

convert

krustydoyle wrote: »

Ruby said if there was big money to be won for a place, he'd remount..

No doubt assuming on how the horse was...