Breakin by Gardai

maldi

Not sure if anyone have similar experience.

Few weeks ago, some Gardai broke into our flat at around 5 in the morning, they were looking for a guy who lived in the same house but different flat. We both were still in deep sleep when Garda were knocking the flat door, didnot know how long they had been knocking before we were waken up by kicking noises from the door, the door was forced open with a bang and broken pieces every where, we were shocked, gawked at the smashed door, my bf was standing beside the broken door for a while with only underware on him until he realized the cold then asked me to pass his clothes.

It turned out the Gardi were looking for the wrong flat, they told us the flat number was provided by someone else. The Garda who broke the door apologied to us and promised to paid for the cost of reparing door, he left a short note with his name as prove and told us to send the bill to Garda station(Landlord had fixed the door himself, he said it might take year to get the payment back if send the bill to Garda station).

That was most shocking experience we have every had, we both called sick that day, it took quite a while for us to get over the shock after Gardai left.

As days went by, the shocking I got from this event had evanesced, however, I found my bf still behave unusual, he doesn't want to stay in the flat alone and is afraid doing things on his own, often wake up in the midnight, I don't know what to do as he refuse going to the consultant.

It is understandable that Gardai could make mistake in their work, but does it mean Gardai can break in any house/apartment if they want, though I believe most Gardai are good and trustable, what happens if there are bad Gardai, they might give you any excuse to cover up the truth, as lawful civilian you have no simple way to prove it or prevent such thing happening? Also, who should take responsibility if my bf gets mental issue from this event?

Tango Alpha 51

Should you not have asked this in the legal section of boards.ie ?

seamus

The Gardai should have been able to show you a warrant which gave them the right to access your home. This warrant would have been provided to the Gardai on the basis of the flat number which they were incorrectly given.

If they did not have this warrant, they cannot just force their way into your home and then apologise. There would be several legal avenues you could explore in such a case.

You have the name of the Garda who entered the house. Go down to the station and ask him to produce the warrant that they had to enter your home.

If you are worried about mental health issues, either for yourself or your boyfriend, then consult a solicitor. You may be able to claim compensation for any work missed or any psychological professional you need to consult about this.

No-one would disagree that having people burst into your house in the middle of the night would leave you freaked out for a good while, so don't think that you're going to be ignored by the Gardai.

Odysseus

seamus wrote: »

If you are worried about mental health issues, either for yourself or your boyfriend, then consult a solicitor. You may be able to claim compensation for any work missed or any psychological professional you need to consult about this.

If you are concerned about any type of issue like above, forget the solicitor for now. Most importantly see a mental health profession first and fore most. With something like this you would be looking for someone trained in CISM critical incident stress management.

MagicSean

seamus wrote: »

If you are worried about mental health issues, either for yourself or your boyfriend, then consult a solicitor. You may be able to claim compensation for any work missed or any psychological professional you need to consult about this.

Typical of new Ireland. Consult a solicitor before a doctor.

bravestar

seamus wrote: »

The Gardai should have been able to show you a warrant which gave them the right to access your home. This warrant would have been provided to the Gardai on the basis of the flat number which they were incorrectly given.

If they did not have this warrant, they cannot just force their way into your home and then apologise. There would be several legal avenues you could explore in such a case.

You have the name of the Garda who entered the house. Go down to the station and ask him to produce the warrant that they had to enter your home.

Seamus, you are wrong. There are exceptions where a member of An Garda Siochana does not need a warrant. Maybe you should do some research before you go stirring...

maldi wrote: »

Not sure if anyone have similar experience.

Few weeks ago, some Gardai broke into our flat at around 5 in the morning, they were looking for a guy who lived in the same house but different flat. We both were still in deep sleep when Garda were knocking the flat door, didnot know how long they had been knocking before we were waken up by kicking noises from the door, the door was forced open with a bang and broken pieces every where, we were shocked, gawked at the smashed door, my bf was standing beside the broken door for a while with only underware on him until he realized the cold then asked me to pass his clothes.

It turned out the Gardi were looking for the wrong flat, they told us the flat number was provided by someone else. The Garda who broke the door apologied to us and promised to paid for the cost of reparing door, he left a short note with his name as prove and told us to send the bill to Garda station(Landlord had fixed the door himself, he said it might take year to get the payment back if send the bill to Garda station).

That was most shocking experience we have every had, we both called sick that day, it took quite a while for us to get over the shock after Gardai left.

As days went by, the shocking I got from this event had evanesced, however, I found my bf still behave unusual, he doesn't want to stay in the flat alone and is afraid doing things on his own, often wake up in the midnight, I don't know what to do as he refuse going to the consultant.

It is understandable that Gardai could make mistake in their work, but does it mean Gardai can break in any house/apartment if they want, though I believe most Gardai are good and trustable, what happens if there are bad Gardai, they might give you any excuse to cover up the truth, as lawful civilian you have no simple way to prove it or prevent such thing happening? Also, who should take responsibility if my bf gets mental issue from this event?

While it is an unfortunate event, mistakes do happen. It seems the Gardai concerened did all they could in the way of an apology and to sort out payment for a new door. However towards the end of your post there are alot of what ifs. Why not wait and see if your BF does get genuine "mental Issues" from this experience? It appears you are "expecting" him to...

Shield

Moved from ES to LD with redirect.

Hooch

bravestar wrote: »

Seamus, you are wrong. There are exceptions where a member of An Garda Siochana does not need a warrant. Maybe you should do some research before you go stirring...

While you are 100% right....there are certain times in which Gardaí may enter using force without a warrant....I can say 100% that seamus is not a poster who "stirrs" things and is very well versed in Law.....we all make little mistakes;)....except me of course:cool:

Shield

bravestar wrote: »

Seamus, you are wrong. There are exceptions where a member of An Garda Siochana does not need a warrant. Maybe you should do some research before you go stirring...

I'm with NGA on this one. Seamus is one of the most respected people on boards and I don't for one second believe he intends to stir things up. It's not his style and I know from experience he will clarify anything he feels needs clarifying in due course.

bravestar

As NGA said, we all make little mistakes. So Seamus, given the last two posts I will apologise for saying you were stirring it. You were still wrong though...

Victor

bravestar wrote: »

Seamus, you are wrong. There are exceptions where a member of An Garda Siochana does not need a warrant. Maybe you should do some research

Given the facts as stated (occupants soundly asleep in bed), this is unlikely.

Cunsiderthis

bravestar wrote: »

Seamus, you are wrong. There are exceptions where a member of An Garda Siochana does not need a warrant. Maybe you should do some research before you go stirring...



.

I'm very interested to learn how and when a member of the Gardaí is allowed to break down a private citizen's front door, and enter the premises, without any kind of permission from a court?

MagicSean

While in pursuit of someone, they can follow them into a private residence if they or another garda sees them enter it. To prevent serious injury or loss of life, to prevent commission of an arrestable offence, to prevent the destruction of evidence of an arrestable offence. I think thats them all. Also if there is an arrest warrant for someone that they believe to be in the premises they can enter.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/act/pub/0014/sec0006.html

McCrack

Victor wrote: »

Given the facts as stated (occupants soundly asleep in bed), this is unlikely.

Spot on. I can't conceive any situation on the facts as stated that would suggest that a warrant would not of been required.

seamus

bravestar wrote: »

As NGA said, we all make little mistakes. So Seamus, given the last two posts I will apologise for saying you were stirring it. You were still wrong though...

Indeed. I didn't feel the need to go into any more detail though, since the Garda said that they were given the address by someone else, so I assumed that they went off and got a warrant instead of immediately going straight to the OP's house and knocking down the door. You what they say about assumptions though....

In any case, a Garda cannot just break down your door without good reason, warrant or no warrant and he should be able to present a legal reason why he broke down the door and under what legislation he did it.

Typical of new Ireland. Consult a solicitor before a doctor.

I assumed the last few words of my statement would imply that someone would consult a mental health professional and then later on go to a solicitor re: compensation.

Clearly the ES forum is a little twitchy about these kinds of things, understandably. I'll remember to be a little more concise when posting there in future

Spot on. I can't conceive any situation on the facts as stated that would suggest that a warrant would not of been required.

Meh. Could be something as simple as they were pursuing some little scumbag, lost sight of him, a bystander says, "I saw him go into no. 53", and *bang* door gets kicked in.

sam34

Cunsiderthis wrote: »

I'm very interested to learn how and when a member of the Gardaí is allowed to break down a private citizen's front door, and enter the premises, without any kind of permission from a court?

they can go in without a warrant/court order if they suspect someone in there is mentally ill and is a danger to themselves or others

McCrack

.

McCrack

seamus wrote: »

Meh. Could be something as simple as they were pursuing some little scumbag, lost sight of him, a bystander says, "I saw him go into no. 53", and *bang* door gets kicked in.

Could be alright, could be...I could be my brother's sister if my mother had a girl instead. Not trying to be smart by the way but see my point? I'm basing my opinion on what the OP has said and gut feeling that this raid was planned.

Shield

seamus wrote: »

Clearly the ES forum is a little twitchy about these kinds of things, understandably. I'll remember to be a little more concise when posting there in future

Slightly unfair comment there seamus. The person who posted this comment is not an ES forum regular and has less than 10 posts in total in the forum - hardly representative of the entire ES forum?

John Mason

something similar happened to my mates.

one Saturday night there was 5 of them watching football and they heard a hammering on the door, cue a gang of guards storming the place, with a warrant with the correct address on it.

they were looking for drugs, ransacked the place, kept all the guys apart, talked them separately in the apartment.

they found no drugs, and just said sorry and left. that was it :eek:

6 months later there was another raid in a different block of the same apartment complex where there was a major drug find.:rolleyes:

i guess these things happen, they shouldnt but ..........

MagicSean

psni wrote: »

Slightly unfair comment there seamus. The person who posted this comment is not an ES forum regular and has less than 10 posts in total in the forum - hardly representative of the entire ES forum?

Who is this Seamus that all the mods feel the need to defend him? My point was valid. He specifically said "If you are worried about mental health issues, either for yourself or your boyfriend, then consult a solicitor." and I disagreed with this. And just because I'm new to the forum you reckon my point isn't representative? If there is anyone on this forum that believes you should consult a solicitor before a doctor I would like to hear from them.

Maximilian

k_mac wrote: »

Who is this Seamus that all the mods feel the need to defend him? My point was valid. He specifically said "If you are worried about mental health issues, either for yourself or your boyfriend, then consult a solicitor." and I disagreed with this. And just because I'm new to the forum you reckon my point isn't representative? If there is anyone on this forum that believes you should consult a solicitor before a doctor I would like to hear from them.

Seamus recommended a solicitor and not a doctor. He didn't recommend a carpenter or a locksmith to fix the door either.

This is the LD forum. Were it the Home Appliances forum I imagine posters would have recommended the best hoover for cleaning up wood splinters before mentioning lawyers or doctors.

Back on topic if you please.

chem

Can the state be sued for mental stress? Caused by the Gardai?

pirelli

chem wrote: »

Can the state be sued for mental stress? Caused by the Gardai?

It is a controversial form of damage but yes you can sue for negligently inflicted psychological damage called 'nervous shock'

see Mchugh v Minsiter for defence

Also Byrne v western railways (1884) and Kelly v Hennessy (1996) where it sets out the rules as it were for making a claim & Mulally v Bus eireann (1992) which was the precedent before Kelly V hennessy (1996).

In the Kelly case it was decided that you can not claim damages for nervous shock suffered from observing damage to property. However In Attia v British gas (1987) a plaintiff was awarded damages for nervous shock when she had to observe her house been torn down due to the defendants negligence.

For nervous shock you have to be diagnosed with a real psychiatric illness according to kelly. Econmoic loss might be worth looking at get compensation for any days work lost etc... its most likely they would settle as it is such a small amount.

Then there is trespass and false imprisonment

There is the Statutory Authority which permits a tresspass but this must be strictly compliant to that authority.

False imprisonment

I suppose this depends on warrants etc.. and whether the Op was detained.

consultech

pirelli wrote: »

Also Byrne v western railways (1884) and Kelly v Hennessy (1996) where it sets out the rules as it were for making a claim & Mulally v Bus eireann (1992) which was the precedent before Kelly V hennessy (1996)...

... For nervous shock you have to be diagnosed with a real psychiatric illness according to kelly. Econmoic loss might be worth looking at get compensation for any days work lost etc... its most likely they would settle as it is such a small amount.

The test (DSM 3R) for which is, as laid out by Denham J. in Mullally V. Bus Eireann:



"I accept the DSM III-R criteria for post traumatic stress disorder, as set out at page four of the article by Brian McGuire in the Irish Journal of Psychology 1990. For the purpose of this judgment, I find that post traumatic stress disorder is a psychiatric disease.". Denham J. went on to list the five criteria as follows:


- Exposure to a recognisable stress or trauma outside the range of usual human experience, which would evoke significant symptoms of distress in almost anyone,
- Re-experiencing of the trauma through intrusive memories,nightmares or flashbacks or intensification of symptoms through exposure to situations resembling or symbolising the event,
- Avoidance of stimuli related to the trauma or numbing of general responsiveness indicated by avoidance of thoughts or feelings, or of situations associated with the trauma, amnesia for important aspects of the trauma, diminished interest in activities, feelings of estrangement from others, constricted effect,sense of foreshortened future,
- Increased arousal indicated by sleep disturbance, anger outbursts, difficulty concentrating, hyper vigilance, exaggerated startle response, psychological reactivity to situations resembling or symbolising the trauma,
- Duration of disturbance at least one month.

pirelli

consultech wrote: »

The test (DSM 3R) for which is, as laid out by Denham J. in Mullally V. Bus Eireann:



"I accept the DSM III-R criteria for post traumatic stress disorder, as set out at page four of the article by Brian McGuire in the Irish Journal of Psychology 1990. For the purpose of this judgment, I find that post traumatic stress disorder is a psychiatric disease.". Denham J. went on to list the five criteria as follows:

Great information.

As that is a psychiatric disease then it meets one of the standards set out in Kelly v Hennessy

The plaintiff must suffer a recognised psychriatic illness. ( a matter on which experts must testify**)
The illness must arise by way of "shock"
It must be reasonably forseeable that the initial event could cause such injury.
The illness must result from a perception of actual injury to oneself or another person.
If harm results from the aftermath, there must be a close personal relationship between primary victim and plaintiff.
There should not be any public policy limits on recovery where the plaitiff established sufficent proximity and forseeability by fulfilling the above conditions.

Not forgetting Luddy v May where policy did not shield recovery and high court applied Kelly to award 80K.


** sounds expensive

Victor

pirelli wrote: »

The plaintiff must suffer a recognised psychriatic illness. ( a matter on which experts must testify**)


** sounds expensive

It can be expensive, but I imagine any suitably qualified psychiatrist (X years experience and Y months of supervising the plaintiff) would be sufficient, not necessarily a consultant.

However the defence may use a consultant as it would be more cost effective and credible witness than Z hours hours with another psychiatrist. I imagine once there is a justifiable cause (in this case strangers breaking in in the middle of the night) and prima facie evidence of effect, then a defence is difficult and it would move to quantum.

Learner222

I can't give legal advice. I had reason to do some research as a layman on the topic of warrants. There are crimes in relation to which a warrant may not be needed. The courts take a very dim view of the gardai getting the wrong house/flat. It has happened before and the courts see it as contrary to one's constitutional rights. I suggest you keep a diary. Write up your narrative NOW. Add EVERYTHING that happens in relation to this issue and put in the YEAR for each entry - legal issues can drag on for years and you need accuracy. Keep records of phone calls and your itemised phone bills. Consult a doctor and/or a mental health professional and a solicitor. Keep all receipts. Hope this helps.

murrayp4

OP- Go to the Garda station that the Gardaí were from and ask to see the warrant. You can decide what to do from there.

Our man in Havana

ask to see the warrant.

Without a solicitor that will be could be problematic.

The best option is to ask a solicitor to write to the superintendent to request a copy of the warrant.

murrayp4

Bond-007 wrote: »

Without a solicitor that will be could be problematic.

The best option is to ask a solicitor to write to the superintendent to request a copy of the warrant.

Agreed, but there's no harm in going down to the station first, it may be explained or sorted there and then. If the OP isn't satisfied she should seek legal advice.

Bosco boy

psni wrote: »

I'm with NGA on this one. Seamus is one of the most respected people on boards and I don't for one second believe he intends to stir things up. It's not his style and I know from experience he will clarify anything he feels needs clarifying in due course.

Sure were all pals here arent we!

Cunsiderthis

k_mac wrote: »

While in pursuit of someone, they can follow them into a private residence if they or another garda sees them enter it. To prevent serious injury or loss of life, to prevent commission of an arrestable offence, to prevent the destruction of evidence of an arrestable offence. I think thats them all. Also if there is an arrest warrant for someone that they believe to be in the premises they can enter.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/act/pub/0014/sec0006.html

So in the case where two people are asleep in bed, its unlikely that the individual garda would have been in pursuit of them. And if the Garda had been in pursuit of someone and kicked in these guys door, then the garda seems, at the most generous interpretation, to have been very short sighted.

Do you really think it logical that a garda was in pursuit of two people who were asleep in bed?

amen

I thought a customs officer can enter a property without a warrent as well?

MagicSean

Cunsiderthis wrote: »

So in the case where two people are asleep in bed, its unlikely that the individual garda would have been in pursuit of them. And if the Garda had been in pursuit of someone and kicked in these guys door, then the garda seems, at the most generous interpretation, to have been very short sighted.

Do you really think it logical that a garda was in pursuit of two people who were asleep in bed?

I didn't say that. Someone asked on what grounds they could enter without a warrant and I answered.