Detention

FreudianSlippers

If a Garda cautions and arrests someone, takes them to the station and enters details into custody record then places them into detention cell, BEFORE having told the Member in Charge the details of the arrest is the detention illegal?
What should really have happened is that the MIC must approve the detention before placing the arrested person in the cell right?

If I am correct in this, then any interview done after this could not be entered into evidence.

Just making sure I have this right.

MagicSean

Not in the case of Offences Against the State. And not necessarily in other cases. Its not unusual for an arrested person to be placed in the cell while the m.i.c. and arresting garda discuss the detention.

FreudianSlippers

Right, but say for example in the case of an arrest under s25 MDA for offence under s15 MDA it would be.

MagicSean

Not necessarily. Your detention starts from the time of arrest so it doesnt make any difference to your rights really. I think this is a conversation you would have to have with your solicitor because there are too many possible variables in this kind of situation.

FreudianSlippers

k_mac wrote: »

Not necessarily. Your detention starts from the time of arrest so it doesnt make any difference to your rights really. I think this is a conversation you would have to have with your solicitor because there are too many possible variables in this kind of situation.

oh, it's not a personal legal question. King's Inns mock trials are on at the moment, and a Judge in CCJ mentioned yesterday that counsel ought to have been objecting to the detention in a cell prior to approval by MIC and should have been seeking to have all evidence after that detention excluded (eg. memorandum of interview).
The two possible scenarios are arrest under s25 for offence under s15 MDA & arrest under s4 CLA 1997.

Edit: the detention wasn't long, but the judge seemed to be saying that the accused should not be put in a cell at all for detention and questioning until the MIC has approved.

Just trying to clarify the procedure on this.

MagicSean

Well the arrested person has to be put somewhere while they have the conversation in relation to the detention. Then they are informed of the detention. Ideally I suppose another Garda could watch the prisoner in the custody area. But thats not always practicable. Just because a person is in a cell it doesnt mean they are "detained" as such. I'd be surprised to see a detention thrown out on those grounds.

FreudianSlippers

I spoke to another judge yesterday to clarify this question. Apparently it all depends on how long they are kept in the detention cell. If they are put in there and practically immediately the arresting Garda talks to the MIC then it would be ok, but any gaps could make the detention and any subsequent charge unconstitutional. lol... then he said "might make an intersting judicial review"

MagicSean

OisinT wrote: »

I spoke to another judge yesterday to clarify this question. Apparently it all depends on how long they are kept in the detention cell. If they are put in there and practically immediately the arresting Garda talks to the MIC then it would be ok, but any gaps could make the detention and any subsequent charge unconstitutional. lol... then he said "might make an intersting judicial review"

I can understand how the detention and anythin gained from it might be unlawful but the charge would surely stand. I would still maintain that as the detention is retrospective to the time of arrest any delay would have a limited effect on the rights of the prisoner.

dermot_sheehan

There is authority that states detention for a reasonable period ancillary to the purpose of the detention is lawful.

The classic case is where a guard arrests and takes a person to the garda station to be charged, and there is 15-20 minutes spent in a garda cell while the charge sheets are being done up.

Victor

So what happens if 10 arrested are presented to the MIC at the same time and they are being, eh, obstreperous?

MagicSean

Victor wrote: »

So what happens if 10 arrested are presented to the MIC at the same time and they are being, eh, obstreperous?

No station would take ten detentions. They'd be sent to different stations.

Whitewater-AGS

k_mac wrote: »

No station would take ten detentions. They'd be sent to different stations.

Normally multiple detentions come from the one incident, so you simply explain the incident to the M.I.C and they then decided who's detention is warrented so no real need to run over the same story for each prisoner.

And K_mac is correct you would send prisoners to different stations as no station will have ten interview rooms ect ect

TheNog

Just my 2 cents...

The conversation between the MiC and the arresting member is a conversation only for those two. There is no way the prisoner should be involved or allowed to be. If the prisoner is placed in a cell while the conversation takes place the detention should be well covered as long as the detention is granted and the prisoner informed of same within a reasonable time.