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Irish Rail Infrastructure Improvements

  • 19-03-2010 12:00pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,419 ✭✭✭ Cool Mo D


    I think it's time for a thread on what kind of improvements are needed on the Irish rail network. I'm not talking about massive high speed lines or anything, but more modest improvements to reduce journey times and the like.

    Firstly - build the Interconnector, electrify the lines, and finish four tracking out of Heuston. I think there could be a case for 4-tracking as far as Sallins, and building a short extension of the DART to a terminus in Naas proper. It looks like there is a lot of undeveloped land from the railway right up to Naas town. Also, build the Navan line.

    I would like to see track improvements on the Belfast and Cork lines to allow sustained 160km/h - 200 km/h operation along the whole route. I think most of the delays on the Belfast line are due to shoddy track North of the border though, so that might need a bit of north-south co-operation. This would involve all speed restrictions on the lines being sorted. 90 minutes to Belfast, and 2h15 to Cork should be the goal.

    I would like to see Ballybrophy redesigned with a direct, grade separated connection to the Dublin-Cork line, to allow all direct Dublin - Limerick trains to operate via Nenagh and Roscrea, at 120km/h on decent quality track. The commuter service should also be kept.

    Limerick Junction should be grade separated, to allow direct Waterford - Limerick - Galway trains which would not conflict with Dublin Cork, and would allow proper (5 minute) Limerick - Cork connections, along with the current Limerick - Dublin connections. An under 4hour Galway - Waterford journey should easily be possible - with a few trains continuing to Rosslare each day - connecting with the ferry.

    Long sections (~30km each) of double track should be installed at appropriate places on the Sligo, Galway and Waterford lines to allow trains to pass at full speed, reducing journey times. Target times of 2 hours to Waterford and Galway should be do-able.

    A sort section of single track from Maynooth, passing east of Celbridge, and tying into the 4 track Dublin - Cork line with a grade-separated junction. All Sligo and Longford trains would take this line into Heuston. This would allow the Maynooth - Connolly line to be dedicated to DART with the interconnector, and reduce total journey time from Sligo considerably (it takes the Sligo train 40 minutes Maynooth to Connolly now!).

    Since the WRC is now a reality, a small change to it to get Limerick - Galway times close to 1h30 should be made - a short-as-possible direct curve bypassing Athenry, should be built - and Limerick-Galway trains would only stop at Gort and Ennis. The other stations would be either closed, or just used for Galway and Limerick Commuter services.

    Other suggestions welcome!


Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 878 rainbowdash


    Cool Mo D wrote: »
    Limerick Junction should be grade separated, to allow direct Waterford - Limerick - Galway trains which would not conflict with Dublin Cork, and would allow proper (5 minute) Limerick - Cork connections, along with the current Limerick - Dublin connections. An under 4hour Galway - Waterford journey should easily be possible - with a few trains continuing to Rosslare each day - connecting with the ferry.

    Wexford - Galway direct would be more feasible IMO than try to connect with a Ferry.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭ Sponge Bob


    This is the IR that wanted €180m to dual track from Galway to Athenry and with no loop and them owning the Galway - Oranmore land already. Yeah right :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,735 Irish and Proud


    Cool Mo D wrote: »
    I think it's time for a thread on what kind of improvements are needed on the Irish rail network. I'm not talking about massive high speed lines or anything, but more modest improvements to reduce journey times and the like.

    Firstly - build the Interconnector, electrify the lines, and finish four tracking out of Heuston. I think there could be a case for 4-tracking as far as Sallins, and building a short extension of the DART to a terminus in Naas proper. It looks like there is a lot of undeveloped land from the railway right up to Naas town. Also, build the Navan line.

    I would like to see track improvements on the Belfast and Cork lines to allow sustained 160km/h - 200 km/h operation along the whole route. I think most of the delays on the Belfast line are due to shoddy track North of the border though, so that might need a bit of north-south co-operation. This would involve all speed restrictions on the lines being sorted. 90 minutes to Belfast, and 2h15 to Cork should be the goal.

    I would like to see Ballybrophy redesigned with a direct, grade separated connection to the Dublin-Cork line, to allow all direct Dublin - Limerick trains to operate via Nenagh and Roscrea, at 120km/h on decent quality track. The commuter service should also be kept.

    Limerick Junction should be grade separated, to allow direct Waterford - Limerick - Galway trains which would not conflict with Dublin Cork, and would allow proper (5 minute) Limerick - Cork connections, along with the current Limerick - Dublin connections. An under 4hour Galway - Waterford journey should easily be possible - with a few trains continuing to Rosslare each day - connecting with the ferry.

    Long sections (~30km each) of double track should be installed at appropriate places on the Sligo, Galway and Waterford lines to allow trains to pass at full speed, reducing journey times. Target times of 2 hours to Waterford and Galway should be do-able.

    A sort section of single track from Maynooth, passing east of Celbridge, and tying into the 4 track Dublin - Cork line with a grade-separated junction. All Sligo and Longford trains would take this line into Heuston. This would allow the Maynooth - Connolly line to be dedicated to DART with the interconnector, and reduce total journey time from Sligo considerably (it takes the Sligo train 40 minutes Maynooth to Connolly now!).

    Since the WRC is now a reality, a small change to it to get Limerick - Galway times close to 1h30 should be made - a short-as-possible direct curve bypassing Athenry, should be built - and Limerick-Galway trains would only stop at Gort and Ennis. The other stations would be either closed, or just used for Galway and Limerick Commuter services.

    Other suggestions welcome!

    Yeah, a railway thread seems a good idea - the railways that I'd be most interested in are the ones around Dublin and Meath. Such would include Suburban, Dart, Metro, Luas etc. BTW, saw some 3D diagrams of stations on the London Underground - you would want to see stations like those at Bank/Monument, King's Cross, Oxford Circus etc.

    Back to Dublin, if both the DART Interconnector and Metro North are built, then the station at St. Stephen's Green will be something along the lines (excuse the pun :D) of stations on the London Underground - probably the similar in size to the current Bond Street Tube Station (Jubilee and Central Lines) on Oxford Street. Pearse Station will also be something along those lines (not the Jubilee and Central lines though :D) except that DART 1 will be overhead and DART 2 will be underground. Drumcondra will also be a sizable interchange complex (DART 1 and Metro North).

    Would love to see these lines built! :D

    Regards!


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,967 ✭✭✭ Chris_5339762


    Outside of Dublin -
    Dual tracking to Athenry
    Dual tracking from Portarlington to Athlone in the long term [Pointless Galway - Dublin trains waiting for Dublin - Galway trains]
    Addition of a few more passing loops between Athlone and Athenry

    Blue-sky ideas -
    Removal of Limerick junction completely and rearrangement of tracks and station to allow Cork - Dublin trains to go via Limerick City. There is no Cork - Limerick service (realistically) and that should be stopped. The extra distance (not huge) could be counteracted by increased speed (~200kmh running)
    Use of the Interconnector etc to allow Cork - Belfast services
    Introduction of direct Cork - Galway trains

    Railway 'bypasses' of lots of two-bit stations like Portarlington so that (hopefully 200kmh) trains dont have to slow down to 25kmh to get through the windyist station ever.

    None of this will ever happen but its nice to dream :D What really needs to happen though is that the aim should be to have the train journey faster than the car. At the moment, train journeys are SLOWER than the bus [Galway - Dublin] by about 20 - 30 minutes, which is ludicrous. The quickest Galway - Dublin by train is 2h30m, most are 2h40+. Gobus timetable for Galway to Dublin is 2h30m and that DOESNT take into account the M6 from Ballinasloe - Galway. Actual times are about 2h15m and with buslanes in Dublin and Galway there really arent major traffic issues.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,419 ✭✭✭ Cool Mo D


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    This is the IR that wanted €180m to dual track from Galway to Athenry and with no loop and them owning the Galway - Oranmore land already. Yeah right :D

    I wonder them quoting high prices for jobs is just to make sure they don't have to get off their arses and do them... Although I might just be being cynical there.

    Another possible project in 4-tracking out of Connolly to Howth Junction, but I am a bit dubious about this for a few reasons. For one thing, a DART can do Connolly to Howth Junction in a little over 10 minutes, so realistically, if you have 12 DARTs an hour on the line, and send out Intercity and Commuter trains out just before DARTs, the max time you could save would be about 5 minutes going north - not worth the 100s of millions for 2 extra tracks? This might require some really good signalling, but not undoable, perhaps.
    You could get real time savings if you built a new line from north of Howth Junction, where the fields start, along the M1 to Drogheda - should be doable in 25 mins then, with a possible Airport stop built on the outskirts of the airport, with shuttle buses on a dedicated access road to the terminal - similar setup to how long term car parking works.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 BluntGuy


    A DART airport stop is out of the question now. :(

    It would rip out a huge chunk of the RPA's justification for Metro North.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,017 invinciblePRSTV


    BluntGuy wrote: »
    A DART airport stop is out of the question now. :(

    It would rip out a huge chunk of the RPA's justification for Metro North.

    I think however some kind of upgrade of the Northern line bottleneck is due in that part of the world even with Metro North. t'would be expensive.

    I'd like to see modest funds for Cork suburban improvemnts on the northside. And hopefully something to follow the KRP forther south, its time for Cork - Dublin by rail to compete with M8 journey times if possible.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 45 ✭✭✭ Steel Pump


    None of this will ever happen but its nice to dream :D What really needs to happen though is that the aim should be to have the train journey faster than the car. At the moment, train journeys are SLOWER than the bus [Galway - Dublin] by about 20 - 30 minutes, which is ludicrous. The quickest Galway - Dublin by train is 2h30m, most are 2h40+. Gobus timetable for Galway to Dublin is 2h30m and that DOESNT take into account the M6 from Ballinasloe - Galway. Actual times are about 2h15m and with buslanes in Dublin and Galway there really arent major traffic issues.

    Exactely Railway is a dead horse, commuter line improvements are really all that's feasible but as for intercity routes - motorway is the king.

    - our city's and towns are not that far apart to demand the comfort of a train over bus (prob cork-dublin being the exception).

    To make the bus faster I would like to see them use only motorway, and have bus-stops just off the motorway junctions, take them out of the towns, keep the route as fast as possible.

    Cheaper and more efficient really. it also justify's the Altlantic corridor from Waterford to Galway. In these tight budget times Its one or the other and railway is just the wrong answer I'm afraid.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,419 ✭✭✭ Cool Mo D


    Steel Pump wrote: »
    Exactely Railway is a dead horse, commuter line improvements are really all that's feasible but as for intercity routes - motorway is the king.

    - our city's and towns are not that far apart to demand the comfort of a train over bus (prob cork-dublin being the exception).

    To make the bus faster I would like to see them use only motorway, and have bus-stops just off the motorway junctions, take them out of the towns, keep the route as fast as possible.

    Cheaper and more efficient really. it also justify's the Altlantic corridor from Waterford to Galway. In these tight budget times Its one or the other and railway is just the wrong answer I'm afraid.

    I'm sorry, but it's just ignorant to suggest that intercity rail can have no future in Ireland. If you want to say that it has no future, the way that Irish rail are running it, that is a fair point, but there are plenty of countries with very similar population densities and sizes to Ireland where rail is a huge success, and fills an important role. Intercity train travel is not going to replace the car, but it can be a better alternative to lots of people for various reasons.
    It wouldn't necessarily take a fortune to have rail journey times beating road ones, and with proper customer service, good timetables and reasonable amenities, the railways can grow their market share.

    Also, i wasn't suggesting a DART airport stop - that would split DARTs too much anyway - between Howth, Malahide, and planned to Balbriggan is enough, but a fairly bare-bones above ground stop for Enterprise transfers to the airport would be valuable.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 BluntGuy


    Cork-Dublin-Belfast and the commuter routes.

    Those are the key corridors to be developed.

    C-D-B needs almost to be re-done from scratch. But I think straightening and double-tracking could be done for less than 1 billion. This would enable us to get the most out of our rolling stock.

    Electrification from Cork-Dublin I reckon would cost 500 million.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,017 invinciblePRSTV


    BluntGuy wrote: »
    Cork-Dublin-Belfast and the commuter routes.

    Those are the key corridors to be developed.

    C-D-B needs almost to be re-done from scratch. But I think straightening and double-tracking could be done for less than 1 billion. This would enable us to get the most out of our rolling stock.

    Electrification from Cork-Dublin I reckon would cost 500 million.

    Don't think these guys will be impressed.
    There has been a fresh call on the Government to commit funds to the next stage of the 'western rail corridor' and the restoration of train services between Limerick and Sligo...


    ...The latest demand for a firm Government commitment to continue with re-opening the entire Limerick-Sligo line has come from the mayors of eight cities and counties on the west coast and from four Catholic bishops.

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0319/rail.html


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 BluntGuy


    Don't think these guys will be impressed.

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0319/rail.html

    Ah, well that's to be expected.

    Funnily enough, just the other day, I e-mailed Deputy Ciaran Cuffe of the Green Party with regard to this, and suggested the Greens to support the development of the Cork-Dublin line and that WRC was a waste of money.

    One or two quotes from it (I'm happy to produce the full e-mail if you PM me).
    It is clear, the Green Party support the development of unsustainable, under-used, and ultimately useless rail projects.

    You claim the Western Rail Corridor links "key towns and cities" in the West of Ireland. Since when was Ardrahan (pop < 500) either of these? How 'bout Craughwell, with its mighty population of 300? This is only Phase 1. Phase 2 and 3 proposes to link more villages with very little business interest between them together, under the guise of regional development. This isn't regional development, this is wasting precious funds that could be invested in useful projects for this region.

    ...

    To go from Limerick to Galway, requires the driver to get out of the train, and plod to other end of the train to resume the journey. This clunky junction could've been avoided, if the rail line actually was developed as a high speed intercity rail link, which I would support. Instead it as been developed as an absolute mess, designed to give every hamlet its slice of the railway pie.

    ...

    My proposal would be to electrify the Dublin-Cork line. I would reckon based on international experience that it would cost in the region of €500 million (provided FF cronyism isn't involved in the tendering process). What is the Green Party position on the DART Underground. I hear a lot of support for Bertie's pet underground tram system proposal, but little for this vital missing link in the rail network.

    In fairness I got a very speedy response from him (or at least a representative), which I'm very much grateful for.

    He made their position clear (well it was clear beforehand, but he cemeneted it in person):
    I think a rail link between Galway, Ennis and Limerick is positive regional development, allowing more communities access to the rail network.

    I suggested Irish Rail carry out combined social, environmental and economic cost benefit analysis before taking decisions on underutilised rail lines. Many rail lines are loss making as is other public transport which is why the Government provides roughly €300m per annum in State subvention to CIE for public service obligation routes.

    The Green Party supports Dart Underground.

    With the greens in government, I'm afraid the WRC is gonna be ploughing straight ahead.

    And with FG in government, the WRC will be ploughing straight ahead. Enda supports it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,464 ✭✭✭ munchkin_utd


    Cool Mo D wrote: »
    I would like to see Ballybrophy redesigned with a direct, grade separated connection to the Dublin-Cork line, to allow all direct Dublin - Limerick trains to operate via Nenagh and Roscrea, at 120km/h on decent quality track. The commuter service should also be kept.
    Actually, if you were to go the whole hog, divert all Cork trains via Limerick and Nenagh.
    The journey from Cork to Dublin would be roughly 330km via Limerick (as opposed to 285km via Thurles) BUT if you were to upgrade the lines to 200kmh**, the journey to Dublin should be possible in 2 hours and you have a direct Cork-Limerick-Dublin axis linking the 3 biggest cities in the Republic to each other.

    It would be an absolute game changer as the consultant types would say!

    (** 200kmh is what they achieved on the Berlin to Hamburg line by removing all level crossings and improving the signaling, and is also the highest speed in the UK at approx 125 mph. Anything above this requires proper dedicated high speed line costing billions, which is why it wasn't done on Berlin-Hamburg )


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,278 ✭✭✭ dowlingm


    If Irish Rail would actually publish their rolling capital plan, it would be a start in figuring out what their plans are for the network, and therefore what we should be lobbying them for. For me the important projects are:
    1. Interconnector/Maynooth electrification. No other IE project will move more passengers than this one, will do so in a more environmentally friendly way than the services replaced, and will drive traffic to/from connecting projects like LUAS Green, LUAS BX and MetroNorth.
    2. Begin double tracking west of Maynooth, at least to Kilcock for starters.
    3. Limerick Junction East Platform, with a 3 car 22K length bay or platform on the Waterford line as part of an V-shaped structure.
    4. Get resignalling of Limerick finished and a halt built at Longpavement and get the loop done at Sixmilebridge. Finish CWR and CTC Limerick-Roscrea ASAP.
    5. Get Oranmore Station done and improve passing capacity on Galway-Portarlington generally.
    6. Get moving on a Railway Order for Pace-Navan, even as single track initially. Apart from the commuter possibilities, it allows Tara traffic to be routed in the most efficient direction depending on time of day etc.

    The problem with IE though is not infrastructural, it's institutional. A lot of the foregoing is for nought unless IE starts timetabling better, rostering better, keeping their industrial relations noise to a minimum and demanding better service to customers from front line staff.

    At the same time the Government needs to commit to delivering a known amount to IE every year to operate to first-class safety standards and to expand the network where demand requires, not because four bishops demanded it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,110 KevR


    dowlingm wrote: »
    Get Oranmore Station done
    +1

    Oranmore station with a Park and Ride.

    A totally seperate Bus Park and Ride has been mooted for Oranmore - I think this would be a huge mistake.
    • There will be 12 trains each way everyday going through Oranmore station.
    • Galway City commuter traffic from the M6 and N18 has to pass Oranmore (in future it will be M6/M17/M18; projections of 26,000 each way/52,000 total daily!).
    Build an integrated Bus & Rail Park and Ride at Oranmore. There would trains going to Galway City Centre anyway (it's not like they'll need to put on extra trains) and they could have some buses going to the industrial estates on the East Side.

    The buses would have to be properly timetabled to meet commuter demand and to make interchanging with trains easy.

    Ticketing would be entirely integrated - for example you could get the train from Athenry to Oranmore and then change onto a bus in Oranmore with a single ticket.

    For special events, such as big matches at Pearse Stadium (where there is absolutely no parking available, the Park and Ride and buses could be used for getting people to/from the stadium. Buses could be sent to the racecourse during race week and there would be no need for the Christmas P&R at the racecourse.

    I think between the towns of Oranmore, Athenry (both 12 trains each way), Craughwell, Gort (both 5 trains each way) and Ballinasloe (7 trains each way) and people parking in Oranmore, IE could get decent numbers of commuters on their trains and buses with an integrated service.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,278 ✭✭✭ dowlingm




  • Registered Users Posts: 131 ✭✭ patgill


    Cool Mo D
    A sort section of single track from Maynooth, passing east of Celbridge, and tying into the 4 track Dublin - Cork line with a grade-separated junction. All Sligo and Longford trains would take this line into Heuston. This would allow the Maynooth - Connolly line to be dedicated to DART with the interconnector, and reduce total journey time from Sligo considerably (it takes the Sligo train 40 minutes Maynooth to Connolly now!).

    When the extension to Dunboyne and eventually Navan opens the Sligo train might as well turn into an overnight service.

    The four railway crossings at Clonsilla, Coolmine, Ashtown and Cabra already contribute hugely to traffic delays in west Dublin, add in the extra closings required by the extra Meath trains and some peoples lives will become almost impossible. At peak times these gates are closed to road traffic for almost 35 mins out of every hour.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,278 ✭✭✭ dowlingm


    The Clonsilla LC is to be closed with an alternative bridge crossing some distance away I believe.


  • Registered Users Posts: 131 ✭✭ patgill


    dowlingm wrote: »
    The Clonsilla LC is to be closed with an alternative bridge crossing some distance away I believe.

    Yes but the Meath extension is due to be opened in the Autumn and the road to the new bridge has still not been built


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 owenc


    Cool Mo D wrote: »
    I think it's time for a thread on what kind of improvements are needed on the Irish rail network. I'm not talking about massive high speed lines or anything, but more modest improvements to reduce journey times and the like.

    Firstly - build the Interconnector, electrify the lines, and finish four tracking out of Heuston. I think there could be a case for 4-tracking as far as Sallins, and building a short extension of the DART to a terminus in Naas proper. It looks like there is a lot of undeveloped land from the railway right up to Naas town. Also, build the Navan line.

    I would like to see track improvements on the Belfast and Cork lines to allow sustained 160km/h - 200 km/h operation along the whole route. I think most of the delays on the Belfast line are due to shoddy track North of the border though, so that might need a bit of north-south co-operation. This would involve all speed restrictions on the lines being sorted. 90 minutes to Belfast, and 2h15 to Cork should be the goal.

    I would like to see Ballybrophy redesigned with a direct, grade separated connection to the Dublin-Cork line, to allow all direct Dublin - Limerick trains to operate via Nenagh and Roscrea, at 120km/h on decent quality track. The commuter service should also be kept.

    Limerick Junction should be grade separated, to allow direct Waterford - Limerick - Galway trains which would not conflict with Dublin Cork, and would allow proper (5 minute) Limerick - Cork connections, along with the current Limerick - Dublin connections. An under 4hour Galway - Waterford journey should easily be possible - with a few trains continuing to Rosslare each day - connecting with the ferry.

    Long sections (~30km each) of double track should be installed at appropriate places on the Sligo, Galway and Waterford lines to allow trains to pass at full speed, reducing journey times. Target times of 2 hours to Waterford and Galway should be do-able.

    A sort section of single track from Maynooth, passing east of Celbridge, and tying into the 4 track Dublin - Cork line with a grade-separated junction. All Sligo and Longford trains would take this line into Heuston. This would allow the Maynooth - Connolly line to be dedicated to DART with the interconnector, and reduce total journey time from Sligo considerably (it takes the Sligo train 40 minutes Maynooth to Connolly now!).

    Since the WRC is now a reality, a small change to it to get Limerick - Galway times close to 1h30 should be made - a short-as-possible direct curve bypassing Athenry, should be built - and Limerick-Galway trains would only stop at Gort and Ennis. The other stations would be either closed, or just used for Galway and Limerick Commuter services.

    Other suggestions welcome!

    the trains here are rubbish compared to england, it takes two hours to get from coleraine just to belfast in england that would only take about 30 hour... people here dont really use the trains thats probably why, buses are much much like one in england though.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 721 mk6705


    I would start with the Cork-Dublin line, since this would have some knock-on effect on Galway/Westport, Waterford and a very considerable knock-on effect on Limerick and Tralee services. I would upgrade this to 200 km/h (125 mph), up from the current 150 km/h (95 mph). This should have been done for the Kildare route project I think. Straightening the track where possible should also be considered.
    A new line from Portarlington to Roscrea should be built, and this should become the mainline for Limerick-Dublin trains. This should be upgraded to 95 mph double track.
    A new line from Limerick to Tralee should then be built, going via Listowel (pop: about 3500). This did exist in the past, so wouldn't be as hard as you might imagine. This could be single track at 70 mph with passing loops. This would allow trains to run from Dublin-Limerick and some to Tralee, all faster than currently. The existing Tralee to Mallow line could operate reduced services to Cork or maybe even closed after Killarney, since most people use the bus to Cork on this route currently.
    I would double track much of the Dublin-Galway line, and upgrade it to 95 mph track.
    A more direct route from Carlow to Dublin should also be considered.
    A rail line from Mallow to Limerick could also be considered, to speed up Cork-Limerick services. Shuttle trains could be run from Mallow to Limerick, linking up with Cork-Dublin trains.
    As regards commuter services, signalling should be looked at, considering the high amount of failures in recent weeks. I'm not sure what should be done with Connolly station but it is very congested at present and this is holding back alot of potential services. Naturally I'm quite disconnected with commuter rail travel but it should be looked at with priority. Dublin-Cork should also be looked at with priority however I think. The rest of my suggestions are ideal to say the least but you'd never know.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,698 ✭✭✭ D'Peoples Voice


    Cool Mo D wrote: »
    I'm sorry, but it's just ignorant to suggest that intercity rail can have no future in Ireland. If you want to say that it has no future, the way that Irish rail are running it, that is a fair point, but there are plenty of countries with very similar population densities and sizes to Ireland where rail is a huge success, and fills an important role. Intercity train travel is not going to replace the car, but it can be a better alternative to lots of people for various reasons.
    I actually believe where it falls down is not on the intercity routes, but the local connections either side.
    For example, assume I was living out in the Ashbourne, to get to Bantry in Cork,
    involves getting an infrequent bus to Busaras, then a Luas to Heuston, then I get the train to Kent station, and have to get a connection to the central bus depot in Cork for a transfer to the Bantry bus. Now I'd say if you add up the amount of time travelling on the buses/luas it would be close to the total time on the train!
    that is the problem in my opinion. For example, Thursday before last, at 8.15am, I was out at a bus stop near the Old Sachs Hotel, now the Hampton Hotel I believe, anyway I was waiting over 25 minutes for a commuter bus on Morehampton Road. Then not 1, not 2, not 3, not even 5 but 8 buses bumper to bumper came along (grant it, they weren't all the same number bus, the first was the 10, second the 46 A, the third the 145, fourth was the 46B, thats all I could make out as they were close to one another). But yes, I know I should be thankful there were buses, I know for others in Leixleip, sometimes the buses are too packed to stop and you could be waiting all morning.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,419 ✭✭✭ Cool Mo D


    I actually believe where it falls down is not on the intercity routes, but the local connections either side.
    For example, assume I was living out in the Ashbourne, to get to Bantry in Cork,
    involves getting an infrequent bus to Busaras, then a Luas to Heuston, then I get the train to Kent station, and have to get a connection to the central bus depot in Cork for a transfer to the Bantry bus. Now I'd say if you add up the amount of time travelling on the buses/luas it would be close to the total time on the train!
    that is the problem in my opinion. For example, Thursday before last, at 8.15am, I was out at a bus stop near the Old Sachs Hotel, now the Hampton Hotel I believe, anyway I was waiting over 25 minutes for a commuter bus on Morehampton Road. Then not 1, not 2, not 3, not even 5 but 8 buses bumper to bumper came along (grant it, they weren't all the same number bus, the first was the 10, second the 46 A, the third the 145, fourth was the 46B, thats all I could make out as they were close to one another). But yes, I know I should be thankful there were buses, I know for others in Leixleip, sometimes the buses are too packed to stop and you could be waiting all morning.

    Very good point alright - why can't CIE do some basic co-ordination of timetables. Even integrated intercity bus-rail seems totally beyond them. I put a lot of blame on the DOT for this too - they seem out to squash any kind of innovation or new approaches in public transport, whether for fear of lawsuits from other operators, or sheer laziness, or some bizarre idealogical reason, I don't know.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,980 ✭✭✭ limklad


    owenc wrote: »
    the trains here are rubbish compared to england, it takes two hours to get from coleraine just to belfast in england that would only take about 30 hour... people here dont really use the trains thats probably why, buses are much much like one in england though.
    30 Hours (I am hoping this is a typo) to travel in england with the same distance from Coleraine to Belfast (94.5km on a single lane track)?
    I can drive from Limerick to Dublin (Red Cow) in two and half hours max with bad traffic. approx 180 Kms (average speed 72km per hour - Dam villages, single lanes carriages and "Slow Overtaking lane hoggers" are slowing me down :mad:).


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,980 ✭✭✭ limklad


    Adro947 wrote: »
    A new line from Limerick to Tralee should then be built, going via Listowel (pop: about 3500). This did exist in the past, so wouldn't be as hard as you might imagine. This could be single track at 70 mph with passing loops. This would allow trains to run from Dublin-Limerick and some to Tralee, all faster than currently.
    The old Railway path is still there and still own by CIE/IR. It just like the WCR. All it needs is tracks and road railways gates, signales etc.
    The old line from Tralee to Limerick went from Limerick, to Patrickwell, Adare, Rathkeale. Much of that line still exist as it was use in recent times for Freight to Foynes - Now disused). Tha railways then proceed to Ardagh to Newcastle west. old railway station now gone and the Station area is now a housing estate, this line proceeds to Abbeyfeale to Listowel to Tralee. Newcastle west has a far bigger population than Listowel. People in the Area uses the Car rather than bus to Limerick. So I cannot see this rail line succeeding unless it can be used for Freight as well to the sea and air Ports hubs as well as major cites. We cannot get a simple bypass for Newcastle west (which badly needs a bypass) so I cannot see any rail lines going down any time in this decade.
    A rail line from Mallow to Limerick could also be considered, to speed up Cork-Limerick services. Shuttle trains could be run from Mallow to Limerick, linking up with Cork-Dublin trains.
    It currently exist. It called "Limerick Junction" near Tipperary Town, where you can link up with Cork-Limerick services from Limerick. There is also a platform at Limerick Junction for trains from Limerick and Direct inter-city Trains From Limerick to Dublin. I guarantee you that Limerick People will not be going to Dublin by train, if they have to travel towards Mallow and reversing back up the same track adding extra 120km towards Dublin to their journey. The service is bad enough in travel times and is too expensive already. They need to reduce the travel times and costs to get more people to travel on the Trains.

    If you do a search on http://www.irishrail.ie you can see there is plenty of service on this line approx one Train every hour either inter-city or via connections at Limerick Junction with Tralee/Cork Trains to Dublin.

    I did a cost estimate two years ago to take my car to Dublin and back including use of the Luas Transport/Parking to city centre for a day travel and the Car/Luas beat the cost every time. It would be great if the Train was cheaper and faster than the car/Luas. With the Limerick to Portlaoise opening within the next year my travel times to Dublin will be slashed further ruling out the Train.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,110 KevR


    Can anyone explain to me why all these buildings were given planning permission right on top of the Galway-Dublin railway line near Oranmore? Seems crazy to me.
    • Why would someone want to build so close to a railway line when there is no station anywhere nearby?
    • And why would they be allowed when it was well known that Oranmore would one day need a station and Galway-Athenry would one day need double tracking?
    The business park which straddles the railway line would have been by far the best location for an integrated Rail & Bus Park and Ride. It's walking distance from the town centre (have a pedestrian bridge over the R446/old N6 DC), is only a short distance from the M6 and is directly on the current N18.

    It would have made no real difference to the business park if it had been located to the East of the N18 (only across the road) but it makes a big difference for the railway station.


  • Registered Users Posts: 721 mk6705


    limklad wrote: »
    The old Railway path is still there and still own by CIE/IR. It just like the WCR. All it needs is tracks and road railways gates, signales etc.
    The old line from Tralee to Limerick went from Limerick, to Patrickwell, Adare, Rathkeale. Much of that line still exist as it was use in recent times for Freight to Foynes - Now disused). Tha railways then proceed to Ardagh to Newcastle west. old railway station now gone and the Station area is now a housing estate, this line proceeds to Abbeyfeale to Listowel to Tralee. Newcastle west has a far bigger population than Listowel. People in the Area uses the Car rather than bus to Limerick. So I cannot see this rail line succeeding unless it can be used for Freight as well to the sea and air Ports hubs as well as major cites. We cannot get a simple bypass for Newcastle west (which badly needs a bypass) so I cannot see any rail lines going down any time in this decade.

    It currently exist. It called "Limerick Junction" near Tipperary Town, where you can link up with Cork-Limerick services from Limerick. There is also a platform at Limerick Junction for trains from Limerick and Direct inter-city Trains From Limerick to Dublin. I guarantee you that Limerick People will not be going to Dublin by train, if they have to travel towards Mallow and reversing back up the same track adding extra 120km towards Dublin to their journey. The service is bad enough in travel times and is too expensive already. They need to reduce the travel times and costs to get more people to travel on the Trains.

    I'm not talking about Limerick Junction, I'm talking about something roughly following the route of the N20 to Limerick from Mallow.
    I'm not saying to interfere with the Limerick to Limerick Junction bit at all. I'm well aware it won't happen though. :pac:


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