Sex offender list, does it exist or not ?

LookBehindYou

If a person is on the sex offender list, what difference does it make ?
Is there anywhere to check if a person is on the list ?
What is there to stop a sex offender from traveling outside the country ?
In California, the sex offender list is made public, and can be read on the internet, why not here ?

Shield

Article 8 of The Human Rights Act 1998 is the answer I was told when I asked this years ago in the Police College.

psni

psni wrote: »

Article 8 of The Human Rights Act 1998 is the answer I was told when I asked this years ago in the Police College.

That's an English statute.

In Ireland there is no "sex offenders register" as such. The term (which never appears in statute) refers to a central database held by the Garda Domestic Violence and Sexual Assault Unit which collates information held by local Garda Stations where sex offenders live. Offenders, subject to Part 2 of the Sex Offenders Act 2001, are required to provide the Gardaí with certain information including address etc.

This information is not publicly available and is only available to appropriate members of the Gardaí.

Cunsiderthis

Deleted User wrote: »

That's an English statute.

In Ireland there is no "sex offenders register" as such. The term (which never appears in statute) refers to a central database held by the Garda Domestic Violence and Sexual Assault Unit which collates information held by local Garda Stations where sex offenders live. Offenders, subject to Part 2 of the Sex Offenders Act 2001, are required to provide the Gardaí with certain information including address etc.

This information is not publicly available and is only available to appropriate members of the Gardaí.

In a world where a paediatrician was attacked by a mob seemingly unable to differentiate the words paediatrician and pedofile, and where shows like those hosted by Joe Duffy or Eamon Keane seem to have a inexhaustible supply of nasty people egged on by Joe or Eamon to hurl bile and hatred at others, perhaps it is for the best that the list is not available to the public to conduct witch hunt after witch hunt.

McCrack

I suppose this is veering off legal discussion but it's a sore point in this jurisdiction whether the Register should be made public and people have strong opinions, personallly I believe parents have a duty to educate their children on not talking to strangers etc etc and proper supervision too.

These in my opinion are the first and most important steps in protecting children from stranger abusers, but as is well documented most child sexual abuse in this country is done by persons the child knows and trusts (a family member).

In addition there are thankfully few stranger rapes in this country, again the vast majority are committed by men the victim knows and trusts (to a greater or lesser degree).

FreudianSlippers

McCrack wrote: »

I suppose this is veering off legal discussion but it's a sore point in this jurisdiction whether the Register should be made public and people have strong opinions, personallly I believe parents have a duty to educate their children on not talking to strangers etc etc and proper supervision too.

These in my opinion are the first and most important steps in protecting children from stranger abusers, but as is well documented most child sexual abuse in this country is done by persons the child knows and trusts (a family member).

In addition there are thankfully few stranger rapes in this country, again the vast majority are committed by men the victim knows and trusts (to a greater or lesser degree).

When you look at the farce that is the sex offenders registry in the USA, I think it is easy to see how public publishing of these types of lists is probably not the best way to deal with the situation.
IMHO the list in the USA has become some sort of sick voyeurism for some and a means to incite violence for others.

Not to mention that in certain states (not sure about all of them) of the US, people can be put on the sex offenders registry for crimes as minor as public urination.

The constitutionality of the whole thing is under debate in the US and Canada. I think the most outrageous thing in the US is these so-called "predator free zones" which will not allow someone on the sex offender registry to move into (or remain living) in that area!

bcdccm

psni wrote: »

Article 8 of The Human Rights Act 1998 is the answer I was told when I asked this years ago in the Police College.

Although thats for the UK, the ECHR Act 2003, is presumably the same obstacle for the Republic. Art 8 of the convention would apply, but I dont remember any case law on the area.

Deise Tom

Does anyone know, can the sex offenders list be downloaded from the net. If a person knows but does not want to say in public, maybe they can send a PM.

LookBehindYou

Deleted User wrote: »

That's an English statute.

In Ireland there is no "sex offenders register" as such. The term (which never appears in statute) refers to a central database held by the Garda Domestic Violence and Sexual Assault Unit which collates information held by local Garda Stations where sex offenders live. Offenders, subject to Part 2 of the Sex Offenders Act 2001, are required to provide the Gardaí with certain information including address etc.

This information is not publicly available and is only available to appropriate members of the Gardaí.

Thanks to KAYROO for explaining

SkrApsAK

I find it quite funny that a member called "Look Behind You" started this thread!! LMAO

MagicSean

Deise Tom wrote: »

Does anyone know, can the sex offenders list be downloaded from the net. If a person knows but does not want to say in public, maybe they can send a PM.

Did you not read the thread?

Seanbeag1

Seanbeag1 wrote: »

Did you not read the thread?

Did you not realise this thread is 16 months old?

newmug

If someone is convicted of a crime in a court, is that not a publicly accessible event? If so, is there anyone out there taking notes (on a casual level, not a legal list per se) about who is convicted of paedophilia, who is convicted of murder, who is convicted of drunk driving etc.? The newspapers always seem to have names, ages, addresses etc. of people sentenced to various crimes, so there must be someone out there with info on sex offenders.

hullaballoo

There is someone who maintains the register but it's in no one's interests to have the register made public, so it is not.

Also, this thread is five years old so unless something constructive is going to be added, I'll be closing it shortly.

MarkAnthony

There are a number of answers to that question OP.

(i) Sexual offences naming the offender would compromise the right of the victim to anonymity. Furthermore there are significant risk factors to Megan's law type naming and shaming databases.

(ii) Other crimes are usually reliant on a reporter being in the court in question. These cases do not have the same sort of reporting restrictions as sexual cases.

Is it a discussion of why there is not a publicly available list of sexual offenders your actual question?

Ken.

I know its 5 years old but the whole 'teach your kids about strangers' thing is stupid. Kids are 96% more likely to be abused by a family member or someone they know than by a stranger.

As to the offenders register it shouldn't be public but should only be available to the Gardai so that if a child goes missing from an area they can immediately check with the offenders in their area.

obsidianclock

MarkAnthony wrote: »

There are a number of answers to that question OP.

(i) Sexual offences naming the offender would compromise the right of the victim to anonymity. Furthermore there are significant risk factors to Megan's law type naming and shaming databases.

(ii) Other crimes are usually reliant on a reporter being in the court in question. These cases do not have the same sort of reporting restrictions as sexual cases.

Is it a discussion of why there is not a publicly available list of sexual offenders your actual question?

Mark is right.

After Megan's Law was introduced in the US, more Sex Offenders stopped complying with monitoring requirements specifically because they had less anonymity, so actually allowing ordinary members of the public to know someone is a sex offender is likely to increase the danger to children.

I think people judge issues like these subjectively thinking "I would rather know that about someone" but if having a law about it actually means that more offenders go off the reservation then it's not much good.

newmug

Well here's the thing. If there's NO sex offenders list, and all these cases are supposed to be held in private, how do we know about Brian Curtin, Ivan Payne, Derry O'Rourke, Larry Murphy?


These names are all in the public domain already, so SOMEBODY must be attending every single court session, and publicising the names of these people. Some of these scumbags actually got off! Doesn't mean that they're NOT sex offenders though.

obsidianclock

newmug wrote: »

Well here's the thing. If there's NO sex offenders list, and all these cases are supposed to be held in private, how do we know about Brian Curtin, Ivan Payne, Derry O'Rourke, Larry Murphy?


These names are all in the public domain already, so SOMEBODY must be attending every single court session, and publicising the names of these people. Some of these scumbags actually got off! Doesn't mean that they're NOT sex offenders though.

Erm... innocent until proven guilty?

I imagine your regard for due process would improve immeasurably if you or someone you care about were falsely accused. Still, whenever I talk about my ex crying rape, I hear that men like me don't exist, or at least aren't important enough to discuss, so please forget I said anything!

Peregrinus

newmug wrote: »

Well here's the thing. If there's NO sex offenders list, and all these cases are supposed to be held in private, how do we know about Brian Curtin, Ivan Payne, Derry O'Rourke, Larry Murphy?


These names are all in the public domain already, so SOMEBODY must be attending every single court session, and publicising the names of these people. Some of these scumbags actually got off! Doesn't mean that they're NOT sex offenders though.

The cases aren't held in private; they are public, and anyone can attend.

They are sometimes subject to reporting restrictions, which may include a restriction on naming the accused, either because that would also identify the victim or because in the circumstances it would be unfairly prejudicial to the accused or impede a fair trial. If the trial ends with a conviction the reporting restrictions may be lifted or modified, and it may then be possible to name the person convicted.

newmug

Well then there must be a compilation of names, somewhere. Whether official or not. Surely there's a Wikipedia-esque page of "convicted" sex offenders out there? Anyone know of one?

Peregrinus

I'm not aware of any specifically Irish list, but I have seen web pages which attempt to record, mostly from newspaper reports, the names and details of people convicted of sex offences, and some of the entries on those pages relate to Irish cases. But they are not at all comprehensive as regards Irish cases.

Can't link to one, because these are not the kind of links I would bookmark, but I dare say a spot of googling will find some examples.

234

newmug wrote: »

If someone is convicted of a crime in a court, is that not a publicly accessible event? If so, is there anyone out there taking notes (on a casual level, not a legal list per se) about who is convicted of paedophilia, who is convicted of murder, who is convicted of drunk driving etc.? The newspapers always seem to have names, ages, addresses etc. of people sentenced to various crimes, so there must be someone out there with info on sex offenders.

newmug wrote: »

Well here's the thing. If there's NO sex offenders list, and all these cases are supposed to be held in private, how do we know about Brian Curtin, Ivan Payne, Derry O'Rourke, Larry Murphy?


These names are all in the public domain already, so SOMEBODY must be attending every single court session, and publicising the names of these people. Some of these scumbags actually got off! Doesn't mean that they're NOT sex offenders though.

newmug wrote: »

Well then there must be a compilation of names, somewhere. Whether official or not. Surely there's a Wikipedia-esque page of "convicted" sex offenders out there? Anyone know of one?

You seem a bit obsessed with this. The likely answer is no. If you can't get it on google, then it probably doesn't exist.

Try and think through the practicalities. Who has time to attend every criminal trial involving sexual offences, bearing in mind that they can happen in courts all over the country and more than one case could be happening simultaneously. It would require a very co-ordinated network or dedicated individuals who had no job or anything else to do for most of the working week.

Why are you so convinced that there is a list? Notable cases will always get reported in the media. It's not because there is a list, it's because newspapers employ crime reporters to hang around the Central Criminal Court. But even then they won't have anything approaching complete coverage.

MarkAnthony

You either need to remove you child from what ever situation where you feel there is a risk; fairly reasonable behaviour.

Or get a life and not look for reasons to persecute the new guy in the village because he looks a bit rapey; obsessive behaviour.

As long as one's little hellions are not running around unattended there is very little chance of the being abducted / interfered with. One might even argue less so if you've a rough idea where to start looking.

obsidianclock

I think part of the issue we have here is that "sex offender" is a fairly broad term.

It includes a friend of my brothers who got drunk went streaking and was seen by a couple of young girls who got him arrested for indecent exposure. They had him bang to rights but his crime was being an idiot, not motivated by unhealthy urges to harm others.

Then you have the classic example of the 17 year old boy who has a loving relationship with his 15 year old girlfriend, the Police don't always get involved in these cases though.

Shep_Dog

newmug wrote: »

Well then there must be a compilation of names, somewhere. Whether official or not. Surely there's a Wikipedia-esque page of "convicted" sex offenders out there? Anyone know of one?

Assuming your motivation is to protect potential victims, then, logically you need to look at the profile of a potential attacker, which is mostly someone with no previous record and who is not on the sex offender's register maintained by the police, and who is usually known to the victim. So , by concentrating on a list, you'd be missing the biggest threat.

For the most part, the register is ineffective against the majority of offences and making its contents generally known would lead to vigilante offences and to mental health issues for those listed...not at all helpful if the person is trying to change their life for the good.

There are proposals that the Gardai would have discretion to notify people whose children might come into contact with an ex-offender, presumably if they think there could be a risk.

Right Turn Clyde

Cunsiderthis wrote: »

In a world where a paediatrician was attacked by a mob seemingly unable to differentiate the words paediatrician and pedofile, and where shows like those hosted by Joe Duffy or Eamon Keane seem to have a inexhaustible supply of nasty people egged on by Joe or Eamon to hurl bile and hatred at others, perhaps it is for the best that the list is not available to the public to conduct witch hunt after witch hunt.

This is off-topic, but is Joe Duffy really that bad? I was on a job for two weeks recently, and for one reason or another all we could listen to throughout the day was Radio 1. So I basically listened to Joe every day for two weeks, and I have to say, it was fairly harmless. Sure, there were plenty of 'characters' complaining about X, Y and Z, but it was nothing to get worked up over. I thought Joe was Ireland's version of a frothing-at-the-mouth Deep South Republican?

Little CuChulainn

Lists are kept locally in Garda stations and there are Gardaí designated to keep track of the individuals and meet with them. There is really no benefit to the public knowing these names unless one goes missing and needs to be found.

newmug

Right Turn Clyde wrote: »

This is off-topic, but is Joe Duffy really that bad? I was on a job for two weeks recently, and for one reason or another all we could listen to throughout the day was Radio 1. So I basically listened to Joe every day for two weeks, and I have to say, it was fairly harmless. Sure, there were plenty of 'characters' complaining about X, Y and Z, but it was nothing to get worked up over. I thought Joe was Ireland's version of a frothing-at-the-mouth Deep South Republican?

There's absolutely nothing wrong with Joe Duffy. Its just that Boards is full of very liberal, nerdy "green party" types. So anything he says or does is "offensive" in some way.

Victor

Right Turn Clyde wrote: »

This is off-topic, but is Joe Duffy really that bad?

If I had my way I'd have him .... oh yeah, I can't say that.

Just like there are internet trolls, he's a radio troll, out to worry old people into early graves.