The Edge Sports Cycle Race, Sun 21st March, Carrigaline, Cork

Home:Ballyhoura

In response to the question posed by "rubs" here, I just came across a leaflet I got at the Lacey Cup a few weeks ago about this race. Not much info to be found elsewhere on the web as far as I can see so I scanned it in an attached it below. Hopefully this helps someone, best of luck to anyone racing in it!

To summarise (its a big file, sorry!):

RACE DATE: 21st March 2010

SIGN ON FROM: 11.45 @ Butlers Bar (& Race Car Park)

RACE START TIME: 1pm

RACE START LOCATION: Minane Bridge, 3 miles south of Carrigaline

CONTACT: Tim Barry or The Edge Sports Shop (see attachment for phone numbers, I left them out here so they guys don't get fake calls!)

rubs

Thanks for that.:)

rubs

Hi all,

Just text the guy on the flyer and he gave the following info.

Race Distance - 50 miles

Handicapped start - A4 +6, A3 +3, A2 0

There are no A1 riders in the race.

Race start is 13:00

Course looks okay on google maps but they always do;). Anybody got first hand experience of the route?

Dubba

rubs wrote: »

Hi all,

Just text the guy on the flyer and he gave the following info.

Race Distance - 50 miles

Handicapped start - A4 +6, A3 +3, A2 0

There are no A1 riders in the race.

Race start is 13:00

Course looks okay on google maps but they always do;). Anybody got first hand experience of the route?

Hi rubs, what's the route / course?

jdt101

It's all hills around Minane Bridge...

rubs

Having a bit of trouble getting to upload map but basically its 6 laps with one big hill and a long drag on each circuit.....the chap from "edge" described in his best sean kelly impersonation as ..."undulating":eek:

Sounds ominous!

trek4400

The roads are not the best on this route unfortunetly, a lot of patchwork road repairs, but good luck to all racing

trek4400

Section of road between Ballyfeard and Nohoval + 1/2 mile the roughest

shapez

Wow. What a course. Gruelling. There is no way it should have been handicapped. If the new A4 group was introduced to encourage cyclist into racing, todays course shoudl have had a seperate A4 race and 4 laps would have been plenty. The A+ & A1s would've loved the course.

rubs

That was a tough circuit, no question. It was a nice size A4 group but the handicap meant nothing really, caught in no time at all. I agree with "shapez" above....the A4`s got very little out of that, especially the newbies, only a right roasting. A seperate race would have been ideal over a shorter course. Oh well, always next time:)

jdt101

More 'War of Attrition' than bicycle race... I went off with A4 bunch wasn't caught until 2nd lap, stayed with the front group for a lap or so, very very tough race. It's stupid really, because it reflects very badly on them for future races, no one will turn up!

showry

From reading all the various reports on here over the last few weeks it would appear that the A4s are being better catered for up the country than they are down south. They seem to have their own race every week.

jdt101

crashoveroid wrote: »

The race was a shambles it was a course built for really strong A2s at least there were no A1 but the A4 never get there own race as CI said they would its a joke. I know based on the carnage the course was way too hard the quality of the roads were not the best. There was no such thing as a group just small numbers of cyclists all over the road in the end he won by four mins over the others. For me if its the same course next year i will be training instead.

You and everyone else.

shapez

crashoveroid wrote: »

The race was a shambles it was a course built for really strong A2s at least there were no A1 but the A4 never get there own race as CI said they would its a joke. I know based on the carnage the course was way too hard the quality of the roads were not the best. There was no such thing as a group just small numbers of cyclists all over the road in the end he won by four mins over the others. For me if its the same course next year i will be training instead.

+1. I agree. Whilst I do give credit to the Edge Sports Shop for organisation, good marshaling, etc. The general feedback from A4's & A3's is not good and they should take this on board. The course was very well marshaled and could easily have accommodated 3 maybe 4 separate races. Yes it was a very tough course but in separate races, the bunches very much tend to stay together rather than bodies been shelled all over the course when A3's & A2's arrive.

And, on another note in general, what is the story with the majority of cycle races organised across the country not having adequate changing, toilet and shower facilities? We sweat as much if not more than rugby players.

Note to Edge Sports. Aim for 3/4 separate races next year. A4 race - 4 laps. A3 race - 5/6 laps. A2 race - 6 laps. And if you fancy inviting A1's, they'll love you for such a hard course. If feedback is not taken on board, expect your numbers to be very low next year.

Chimayland

I did not make it to this race but by the sounds of it just as well. A4 riders not being catered for in a lot of races. 60km max distance allowed and to be a separate race.

I don't see the results of the Edge Sports Shop race anywhere. Does anyone know them?

shapez

Edge Sports local chap won it by about 4 mins ahead of Andrew Ahearne from Dan Morrissey Carrick Wheelers.

jdt101

1st Timmy Barry (The Edge CC) (the race organiser.....)
2nd Andrew Ahern (Dan Morrisey Carrick CC)
3rd Michael O'Reilly (The Edge CC)
4th
5th Niall Brosnan (The Edge CC)

Only about 30 finished from a sign-on of 102...say no more....

blorg

Chimayland wrote: »

I did not make it to this race but by the sounds of it just as well. A4 riders not being catered for in a lot of races. 60km max distance allowed and to be a separate race.

80km is the max for A4. Separate races are recommended but certainly on a flatter course the A4s can stay away in a handicap if they work together (which generally, they don't.) Maybe even a hilly one part of the A4 group could stay away if not all. There have been plenty of A4-only races up in Leinster and in 2 of 3 handicaps I have been in A4s have made it into the placings even when caught.

To be honest looking at the carnage in Bohermeen I'm not sure "keeping it all together" is such a plus point, I would prefer a race that breaks up than one that has a massive bunch sprint for the line at the end.

If anything there aren't enough hilly courses in Irish racing.

jdt101

blorg wrote: »

80km is the max for A4. Separate races are recommended but certainly on a flatter course the A4s can stay away in a handicap if they work together (which generally, they don't.) Maybe even a hilly one part of the A4 group could stay away if not all. There have been plenty of A4-only races up in Leinster and in 2 of 3 handicaps I have been in A4s have made it into the placings even when caught.

To be honest looking at the carnage in Bohermeen I'm not sure "keeping it all together" is such a plus point, I would prefer a race that breaks up than one that has a massive bunch sprint for the line at the end.

If anything there aren't enough hilly courses in Irish racing.

I agree with your view on hilly courses.

The A4 race was 90km, so was outside the guidelines.

shapez

blorg wrote: »

To be honest looking at the carnage in Bohermeen I'm not sure "keeping it all together" is such a plus point, I would prefer a race that breaks up than one that has a massive bunch sprint for the line at the end.

If anything there aren't enough hilly courses in Irish racing.

Even so, they should be catered for properly at each racing level.

Since when was cycling supposed to be easy?:P
But yeah, seperate races might have been an idea, the course could certainly have accomadated that. I managed to hang in with the front group till about 1-2 miles out when my legs (and will to live) just went. This front group consisted of only about 15 riders though, which just shows what the attrition rate was like.

Chimayland

blorg wrote: »

80km is the max for A4. Separate races are recommended but certainly on a flatter course the A4s can stay away in a handicap if they work together (which generally, they don't.) Maybe even a hilly one part of the A4 group could stay away if not all. There have been plenty of A4-only races up in Leinster and in 2 of 3 handicaps I have been in A4s have made it into the placings even when caught.

Thanks. Not sure where I got the 60km max for A4 from.

rochefan

I thought the course was the hardest I have ever seen but I did like it, even though I only got 2 laps with the A3 group. Last week in Banteer was pancake flat so I think everyone has been accomindated over the 2 weeks. As for seperate races, I think for such a hard course they might have been worried that guys would be lapped and groups all over the place. I think a better solution would be a seperate A4 race over 3 or 4 laps that should be finished before the next race begins. That would make things easier for the marshals etc

blorg

rochefan wrote: »

I think a better solution would be a seperate A4 race over 3 or 4 laps that should be finished before the next race begins. That would make things easier for the marshals etc

That was what they did in Newbridge; A4 race was scheduled before A3/A2/A1. The only drawback to that is the A4 race ended up very short. A3 race could have been longer too for that matter.

To be honest there is no such thing as a "hard" course in road racing, only ones suited to different types of rider. Where one rider sees difficulty another sees opportunity. A hilly course arguably would work better with separate races though.

blorg

blorg wrote: »

To be honest there is no such thing as a "hard" course in road racing, only ones suited to different types of rider.

I'd have to disagree with you on that one blorg. On a flat course, if someone isn't feeling particularly strong, they can just sit in a sheltered position in the bunch expending relatively little energy. On a climb, that is not an option, either you really grit your teeth and put in the effort to get over it, or you get dropped, which is precisely what happened to a lot of people on Sunday, and many of the guys that were getting dropped were no slouches, among them was one of my clubmates who won the a3 race in Carrick on Paddy's day.

blorg

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd have to disagree with you on that one blorg. On a flat course, if someone isn't feeling particularly strong, they can just sit in a sheltered position in the bunch expending relatively little energy. On a climb, that is not an option, either you really grit your teeth and put in the effort to get over it, or you get dropped, which is precisely what happened to a lot of people on Sunday, and many of the guys that were getting dropped were no slouches, among them was one of my clubmates who won the a3 race in Carrick on Paddy's day.

I don't see what the downside of this is? People get dropped, the race breaks up, makes things more interesting, arguably safer, and gives opportunities for a breakaway.

The more people that get dropped the better frankly.

What chance does a pan-flat course give the a light climber type?

It is a race, don't really see the point of sitting in a big bunch just trying to conserve energy... If you aren't feeling particularly strong and you get dropped don't see what the complaint is. Another day you will feel stronger and be in contention.

Quigs Snr

I tend to have no sympathy, even for my club mate Shapez in this instance. Sorry Shapez. Ultimately, it was advertised as a handicap race, a quick check of the profile would have made it very clear what kind of race this was. I think we need more races like this one (not handicap races, tough races). For easy racing Boheermeen, was on the same day and it's practically impossible to get dropped up there as long as you keep yourself upright.

Some races are just tougher. Its the same in the A1 cat where you have races like Ras Mumhan and Shay Elliot and non-climbers need not apply. If every race was a pan flat borefest then only the sprinters would get to have fun ! For the record, it was the descents that put me off this one rather than the climbs.

More than anything though, it is a large undertaking to run a race, most people don't appreciate the effort and indeed cost that goes into it. Maybe the Edge misjudged the handicap this year and thats fair enough, it is their first year of existence and I am sure they won't next year. However lets not discourage them from running any more races ! We need more race promoters.

RobFowl

It's a bit of a bugbear of mine but why were there so many DNF's ??

If all the dropped riders kept going larger 2nd and 3rd bunches would form and allow more training and experience racing and riding in groups.
It seems that as soon as some one is dropped they finish the lap then pack.

I find it hard to see why 90/120 packed TBH.

rubs

Speaking of bugbears....why is it so difficult for race organisers to put up proper info regarding races!!!...its not that hard...I normally find out most info from this website or other forums!!...

...also, in favour of tough hilly races, once its a level playing field, i.e. a4`s againt a4`s...and so on...

RobFowl

rubs wrote: »

Speaking of bugbears....why is it so difficult for race organisers to put up proper info regarding races!!!...its not that hard...I normally find out most info from this website or other forums!!...
.

+1

Turned up for the Robinstown GP 3 years in a row to ride the advertised 50k V/C/J/W race only to be told on the line that it was now a 100k handicap.

zzzzzzzz

RobFowl wrote: »

It's a bit of a bugbear of mine but why were there so many DNF's ??

If all the dropped riders kept going larger 2nd and 3rd bunches would form and allow more training and experience racing and riding in groups.
It seems that as soon as some one is dropped they finish the lap then pack.

I find it hard to see why 90/120 packed TBH.

I was out for a spin with a group somewhere over the north side one Sunday last year before I started racing. Towards the end of the spin we were coming back in towards Finglas and we caught up with some old codger out for a spin on his own.

He tagged on to the back of our group and I got chatting to him about my upcoming first club race. He said to me- "You might get dropped in your first few races, but never pack it in. Always finish the distance!"

I took his advice on board, and have found that not only does it give you the obvious extra miles in the legs, but more importantly: it's extra motivation not to get dropped again. It's a very lonely road out the back!

I found out later on that the guy I was talking to was Rás legend, Sé O'Hanlon.

jdt101

RobFowl wrote: »

It's a bit of a bugbear of mine but why were there so many DNF's ??

If all the dropped riders kept going larger 2nd and 3rd bunches would form and allow more training and experience racing and riding in groups.
It seems that as soon as some one is dropped they finish the lap then pack.

I find it hard to see why 90/120 packed TBH.

Firstly, I entered this race yesterday with my eyes open to what the circuit was like, as I'm not a stong climber, tough day. I started the race in the A4 bunch, again as other races, no one working at the front, so about 6 of us went up the first climb at near threshhold to spilt the bunch.(which worked) When the leaders breakaway caught us I worked hard to try and keep in with them, where I lasted for about 15-20k before blowing. I did 60km out of 90km. Why did I not finish?

The point of racing is competition for places at the end. I gave 100% for the 60km completed, but it was not enough on a very hard circuit. I will have my day in the future hopefully. I could have plodded around for the final 30km, to prove what and to who? Put simply if I wanted to train yesterday, I would have stayed at home and saved the entry fee and the petrol. But yes, 4 laps would have been more than adequate for the A4's.

jdt101

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/27632895

Above is the data for my 4 laps(60km). Over 1000m of climbing (1500m if I finished) Click on the elevation, to see the sharp asent and desent's on each lap. This race was certainly much difffernt to all others.

The Lacey Cup in Tralee, which is considered tough, is a walk in the park by comparison.

blorg

blorg wrote: »

I don't see what the downside of this is? People get dropped, the race breaks up, makes things more interesting, arguably safer, and gives opportunities for a breakaway.

The more people that get dropped the better frankly.

What chance does a pan-flat course give the a light climber type?

It is a race, don't really see the point of sitting in a big bunch just trying to conserve energy... If you aren't feeling particularly strong and you get dropped don't see what the complaint is. Another day you will feel stronger and be in contention.

Don't get me wrong, I loved sunday's race and I did better in it (c. 15th place) than I have in many others as I managed to hang with the front group until almost the very end, but there is such a thing as hard courses and easy courses, whether you're a light climby type or big sprinty type, and 90km of hilly racing is harder in anyone's books than 90 km of flat, and is a lot to ask of the a4 bunch, which after all is meant to serve as some kind of introduction to racing.

blorg

Deleted User wrote: »

Don't get me wrong, I loved sunday's race and I did better in it (c. 15th place) than I have in many others as I managed to hang with the front group until almost the very end, but there is such a thing as hard courses and easy courses, whether you're a light climby type or big sprinty type, and 90km of hilly racing is harder in anyone's books than 90 km of flat, and is a lot to ask of the a4 bunch, which after all is meant to serve as some kind of introduction to racing.

I wouldn't agree if you are racing it rather than just rolling around in the bunch. A flat course is bloody tough if you are in a breakaway. At least with hills you get a rest when you get over them. A flat course may make it easier for a rider to roll around to the finish with the bunch but it doesn't make it easier for them to place.

I agree with the sentiment that sticking the A4s in a handicap on a hilly course is unlikely to give them a fighting chance.

jdt101

blorg wrote: »

I wouldn't agree if you are racing it rather than just rolling around in the bunch. A flat course is bloody tough if you are in a breakaway. At least with hills you get a rest when you get over them. A flat course may make it easier for a rider to roll around to the finish with the bunch but it doesn't make it easier for them to place.

I agree with the sentiment that sticking the A4s in a handicap on a hilly course is unlikely to give them a fighting chance.

There was no such thing as rolling in the bunch last Sunday, the course was extremely difficult. At the top of the biggest hill there was a strong headwind coming from the sea, then another hill... The race had 1,500m of climbing, with some nasty percentages.

I agree about places on the flat, that involves some experience and tic-tacs.

blorg

blorg wrote: »

A flat course is bloody tough if you are in a breakaway.

Certainly agree with that, I was in the break in Banteer and it was very tough going. I think the reason Sunday was so tough was the duration of the race. Because the hills reduced the avg speed, the race lasted closer to 3 hours than the approx 2 hours in Banteer, even though the distance wasn't that much greater, and this undoubtedly made it a more gruelling experience. You really need to see that circuit to appreciate how very very hard it was, it was much tougher than it looks on paper. There was a draggy section after the big climb where there was a tailwind and it was absolute hell trying to survive it.

Billy Whizz

So the race was too tough for you and it's the organisers fault?

It was pretty clear what kind of profile this race had. As Quigs said, if you wanted a panflat A4 race then you could have gone to Bohermeen.

Getting the **** kicked out of you is part and parcel of bike racing, whether you're an A+, A1, A2, A3 or A4.

The same riders who were doing all the riding in this race will be getting an absolute kicking in Rás Mumhan over the Easter weekend, but they won't be complaining about it. The will however ride hard, finish the distance and hone their form for race more suited to their strengths next month.

shapez

Billy Whizz wrote: »

So the race was too tough for you and it's the organisers fault?

It was pretty clear what kind of profile this race had. As Quigs said, if you wanted a panflat A4 race then you could have gone to Bohermeen.

Getting the **** kicked out of you is part and parcel of bike racing, whether you're an A+, A1, A2, A3 or A4.

The same riders who were doing all the riding in this race will be getting an absolute kicking in Rás Mumhan over the Easter weekend, but they won't be complaining about it. The will however ride hard, finish the distance and hone their form for race more suited to their strengths next month.

I'm all for tough cycling races. But on the same level as whom I race against. For example, a separate A4 race over 4 laps in Cork last weekend would have been more than adequate. Even a separate A3 race would be ideal over 5 laps. And then the A+, A1 & A2's could easily have done the 6 laps. Even though some A2's whom I spoke with also found it grueling. Sure each group will have people who will definitely get dropped, but at least it won't be as quickly if you are competing against a faster group that is about to catch you.

As a matter of interest. Have you raced the course? Because I notice that the ("you got you ar*e kicked, tough", "you should've known before you went", "if you didn't want hills, why'd you go", etc) replies to posts here are from people who weren't in Cork last weekend to witness it first hand.

I'm voicing my opinion on a new race that entered the calender. I'm not complaining about it's organisation or people who ran it. I thought it was run very well. I am merely stating that due to the extreme difficultly of the course it would have been better all round for separate races on it. And because it was very well marshalled, that could have easily been accomplished.

Billy Whizz

I'm familiar with the area, it's hilly enough.

Your point is valid. If you want A4 only races then fair enough. I just think it's not a very good attitude to have. Keep in mind that the new A4 category is still in it's infancy (promoters are still trying to figure it out) but is FAR more accessible than the old system - so don't your clubmates hear you giving out, they would have had it a hell of a lot tougher!

Billy Whizz

Billy Whizz wrote: »

So the race was too tough for you and it's the organisers fault?

It was pretty clear what kind of profile this race had. As Quigs said, if you wanted a panflat A4 race then you could have gone to Bohermeen.

Getting the **** kicked out of you is part and parcel of bike racing, whether you're an A+, A1, A2, A3 or A4.

The same riders who were doing all the riding in this race will be getting an absolute kicking in Rás Mumhan over the Easter weekend, but they won't be complaining about it. The will however ride hard, finish the distance and hone their form for race more suited to their strengths next month.

The race organisers did a fantastic job, the race was very well organised, and exceptionally well marshalled. Also, personally I really liked the course, I have no problem suffering and I finished well, but I just felt sorry for the A4s that were getting lapped by a group of A3s and A2s that were going much faster than them. It must have been very disheartening and it doesn't seem fair to expect them to keep up with A2 level riders on such a tough circuit.

Our club league race last summer used a hilly circuit for a while and the numbers got smaller each week. As much as I would like to tell people to HTFU and whatnot, watching the race disappear up the road to be left struggling on your own is not most people's idea of a good race, and they will be less inclined to continue to compete, and turning newcomers off racing is not good for the sport.

So in summary, great race, great course but seperate races might be a better idea for next year.

jdt101

Deleted User wrote: »

The race organisers did a fantastic job, the race was very well organised, and exceptionally well marshalled. Also, personally I really liked the course, I have no problem suffering and I finished well, but I just felt sorry for the A4s that were getting lapped by a group of A3s and A2s that were going much faster than them. It must have been very disheartening and it doesn't seem fair to expect them to keep up with A2 level riders on such a tough circuit.

Our club league race last summer used a hilly circuit for a while and the numbers got smaller each week. As much as I would like to tell people to HTFU and whatnot, watching the race disappear up the road to be left struggling on your own is not most people's idea of a good race, and they will be less inclined to continue to compete, and turning newcomers off racing is not good for the sport.

So in summary, great race, great course but seperate races might be a better idea for next year.

Now that I've the feeling back in my legs, definatly agree with JamesL85. Great race in a funny and kind of painful way, but would I do it again? Yes, bring on next year... something to train for and test your legs early in the season!

Billy Whizz

jdt101 wrote: »

Now that I've the feeling back in my legs, definatly agree with JamesL85. Great race in a funny and kind of painful way, but would I do it again? Yes, bring on next year... something to train for and test your legs early in the season!

That's the way to look at it!

I'd be almost certain there'll be seperate races next year. With the Classic League on in Donegal they weren't able to include A1s which probably messed them around a bit.

Quigs Snr

Aye it is better to have dedicated races, although the classic league race in Donegal may have indeed put a spanner in the works there. Another thing to consider is that it costs money to put on a race, separate races = separate prizes and that kind of money can add up pretty quickly. Having a handicap race helps keep the cost down. If thats the case then I am all for it, better to have a handicap race rather than no race.

I think maybe some of us who have been around before are far more pragmatic about this A4 thing. In previous years there were 3 or 4 C races a year the rest were combined where you were up against juniors and vets who were winning A races every other weekend and stages of big races etc... So we are conditioned to not expect to be catered for.

RickyBobby658

This is for everyone who complained about the circuit set out on Sunday. This is BIKE RACING! Its not easy! (Nor is it supposed to be!) The race on Sunday was one of the best, if not the best organised race of the season so far. Plenty of marshals, no oncoming traffic, and free bottles and recovery drink at sign on. Sure it was a tough course but thats why we train! Just because your not strong enough to stay with the group is not an excuse to bemoan the structure and the organisation of a fantastic race. Nut up or shut up is what I say, and I must completely disagree with Crashoveroids version of events. This has the potential to be one of the best races in the calender but complaining about the course could ruin this extremely well run event.

GlennaMaddy

Quigs Snr wrote: »

Aye it is better to have dedicated races, although the classic league race in Donegal may have indeed put a spanner in the works there. Another thing to consider is that it costs money to put on a race, separate races = separate prizes and that kind of money can add up pretty quickly. Having a handicap race helps keep the cost down. If thats the case then I am all for it, better to have a handicap race rather than no race.

I think maybe some of us who have been around before are far more pragmatic about this A4 thing. In previous years there were 3 or 4 C races a year the rest were combined where you were up against juniors and vets who were winning A races every other weekend and stages of big races etc... So we are conditioned to not expect to be catered for.

I'd have agreed with you a couple of years ago when numbers were down, but with the numbers that are showing up nowadays money shouldn't be tight

Quigs Snr

Its a good point alright.

BryanL

What a bunch of whingers!

Sell your bikes because bike racing is not for you. Seriously adult men looking for 18-24 mile races? 3-4 laps???

An A4 rider got in the placings, 9th?
A3's were 6,th,7th,8th and 10th.

It's the start of the season and a new system, you will get tougher races on weekends, when classic events are on. Timmy Barry and Michael O'Reilly are both ex international riders who didn't race last year so are A2 now but will soon be A1's. So in a few weeks they'll be out of these races.
Most days of the week, in most races guys like this will toast you. No big deal.

Whats the point of finishing a race?
The next race, the race after that,the summer races, everything you get in your legs now will be there later. Pains in your legs until wednesday? thats bike racing.

I hope to be in the Ras Muhann, but expect to take a beating every stage, But if i don't start mixing it now i won't be able to really race later in the year.

As an A4/A3 you should be happy to get 20 or 30 miles with an A2 bunch into your legs, no training can beat it and during the summer when your spinning big gears and hurting more than you thought you ever could it'll be because of what you did in March and April.

Quigs Snr

Thats the spirit BryanL. There was an A4 in 8th place. A teammate of mine. Good luck down in Ras Mumhan, its a shocker, been there the last couple of years in various capacities so its also my favourite race, everyone gets a kicking down there. Its kind of the point as you say !

Lumen

This thread has more exciting attacks than the A4 races I've been in around Dublin.

You rebel types scare me.