Would love to get back into Wrestling but....

speedboatchase

Christ it's awful. I was a big fan as a kid during the Ultimate Warrior/Hulk days, drifted out when HBK and Yokozuna were the main eventers and rejoined after Wrestlemania in 1998 and the Attitude Era began. I recently downloaded the PW Torch app for my phone and tried to get back in the swing of things to re-acquint myself with things before Wrestlemania. What happened?!

John Cena is still the top drawer for WWE, a wigger who everyone online seems to hate and whose fanbase seems to consist of 10 year old boys? They've completely cut out any Attitude-era raunchiness? They're still persisting with the Undertaker WM streak? HHH is now a thirteen-time (or something ludicrous) champ? The main competition of WWE had Ric Flair and Hulk Hogan in a main event, yet a lot of people still defend them simply because they're fed up with the WWE product? Sting still wears that stupid Crow facepaint?!

I dunno, obviously I don't come to this forum often and sorry if I'm offending anyone but just wanted to present my opinion, which I'm sure would be in part shared by people who stopped following the wrestling scene a few years ago. It just really seems that WWE seems to move in cycles in terms of pop culture relevance but with the huge rise of MMA in America maybe it won't be able to win back anywhere near it's previous popularity. I've been looking from the outside in for a couple of months and was really disappointed

Fozzy

WWE has actually been really really good this year

gimmick

Sounds to me that you have grown out of it.

But to think that pro wrestling stops at mainstream US companies is to deprive oneself of a plethora of great options. With the likes of Dragongate, NJPW and NOAH in Japan, along with PWG, DGUSA, ROH etc, there is an incrdible amount of talenmt there, putting on amazing matches week in week out.

D2D

speedboatchase wrote: »

Christ it's awful. I was a big fan as a kid during the Ultimate Warrior/Hulk days, drifted out when HBK and Yokozuna were the main eventers and rejoined after Wrestlemania in 1998 and the Attitude Era began. I recently downloaded the PW Torch app for my phone and tried to get back in the swing of things to re-acquint myself with things before Wrestlemania. What happened?!

John Cena is still the top drawer for WWE, a wigger who everyone online seems to hate and whose fanbase seems to consist of 10 year old boys? They've completely cut out any Attitude-era raunchiness? They're still persisting with the Undertaker WM streak? HHH is now a thirteen-time (or something ludicrous) champ? The main competition of WWE had Ric Flair and Hulk Hogan in a main event, yet a lot of people still defend them simply because they're fed up with the WWE product?

I dunno, obviously I don't come to this forum often and sorry if I'm offending anyone but just wanted to present my opinion, which I'm sure would be in part shared by people who stopped following the wrestling scene a few years ago. It just really seems that WWE seems to move in cycles in terms of pop culture relevance but with the huge rise of MMA in America maybe it won't be able to win back anywhere near it's previous popularity. I've been looking from the outside in for a couple of months and was really disappointed

Opinions are pretty valid here so you didn't offend me (or I guess any of us).

Same kinda went for me. Love watching wrestling when I was young. I started watching when the Attitude era is in full flow (I'm 19 now btw). Crash Holly fighting at the funfair, Stone Cold ruining the DX Express etc.. I can remember Nitro (on TCM or Bravo) and Raw (Sky Sports) going head-to-head on the Friday replays, followed by Smackdown every Saturday morning and Heat on Sunday afternoon's. Man, I love'd it back then.

Then, I found out the truth of wrestling (it being scripted and all that) and I just lost all interest in it. Stopped watching from late 2002 - late 2005. In late 2005, I caught an episode of Raw and got hooked on it and I've been watching it since.

I can remember seeing TNA on the Wrestling channel and got hooked on it but lost interest when the X Division matches weren't on (+ seeing a replay on EuroSport with the worst commentator I've ever heard). Raw, SD, ECW/NXT, TNA, RoH, FCW, I try to watch it all now because I appreciate the skill and the overall product of the business.

Looking back on it, WWE has gone downhill a bit (inc being PG now) but I still like the overall product they put on. TNA has come leaps and bounds since I first saw it but now with Hogan, Bischoff in charge there, it's waayy too rushed

Headshot

gimmick wrote: »

Sounds to me that you have grown out of it.

But to think that pro wrestling stops at mainstream US companies is to deprive oneself of a plethora of great options. With the likes of Dragongate, NJPW and NOAH in Japan, along with PWG, DGUSA, ROH etc, there is an incrdible amount of talenmt there, putting on amazing matches week in week out.

are any of those on the tv over here ?

D2D

Headshot wrote: »

are any of those on the tv over here ?

Nope, wrestling really does need mainstream coverage over here

NOAH and ROH used to be on the Wrestling channel before that went.

jaykhunter

speedboatchase wrote: »

Christ it's awful. I was a big fan as a kid during the Ultimate Warrior/Hulk days, drifted out when HBK and Yokozuna were the main eventers and rejoined after Wrestlemania in 1998 and the Attitude Era began. I recently downloaded the PW Torch app for my phone and tried to get back in the swing of things to re-acquint myself with things before Wrestlemania. What happened?!

John Cena is still the top drawer for WWE, a wigger who everyone online seems to hate and whose fanbase seems to consist of 10 year old boys? They've completely cut out any Attitude-era raunchiness? They're still persisting with the Undertaker WM streak? HHH is now a thirteen-time (or something ludicrous) champ? The main competition of WWE had Ric Flair and Hulk Hogan in a main event, yet a lot of people still defend them simply because they're fed up with the WWE product? Sting still wears that stupid Crow facepaint?!

I dunno, obviously I don't come to this forum often and sorry if I'm offending anyone but just wanted to present my opinion, which I'm sure would be in part shared by people who stopped following the wrestling scene a few years ago. It just really seems that WWE seems to move in cycles in terms of pop culture relevance but with the huge rise of MMA in America maybe it won't be able to win back anywhere near it's previous popularity. I've been looking from the outside in for a couple of months and was really disappointed

I can't argue any of this stuff :pac: I sometimes wonder how anyone new gets into watching WWE; I'd imagine the vast minority of hardcore fans have kept with it all these years - it's like the number of people that watched The Simpsons S1-11 and are still watching in now Season 21...very small numbers indeed.

I do think the overall product is poor(er than the attitude era...up to 2002 where I marked out hard for so many things) but the current WWE product is better than it's been for many years (2003-5 on RAW was a tough slog, 07-08 with CenaMania was horrible) and TNA is more entertaining this year (although with still many mistakes)...

in short I'd recommend you JUST watch the WWE/TNA PPVs - it's a better watch than the week-to-week slog and you'll accept everything much easier; instead of noting what they should've done.

watch less = enjoy more

I'd promote ROH but they've gone to the ****ter since getting TV and losing Danielson & McGuinness to WWE and TNA respectively. Aries and Black do nothing for me

DGUSA have had 4 fantastic indy shows but the production quality might be too much for you to bear

davrho

Used to love loads of things as a kid myself. Wrestling is one of the things that stuck for me.

Everyone moves on and changes.. No point in having a go at folk who enjoy it. You might have hobbies yourself others will find stupid.

Gimmick is correct.

Each to his own............

Angron

I dunno, I don't hate Cena as much as most. I prefer him now to when he would do all the raps.

And as for the childish nature, they are a business, and if getting the kids in will get them more monies, I won't hold it against them too much. Doesn't mean I like it, but not like I can change it. At least not yet.. *plots*

davrho

Denny M wrote: »

And as for the childish nature, they are a business, and if getting the kids in will get them more monies, I won't hold it against them too much. Doesn't mean I like it, but not like I can change it. At least not yet.. *plots*

Kind of agree.

Many seem to forget that 2/3 of the "adult"(lol) wrestling companies went out of business and wwe viewing figures were on a downward spiral ever since. The ship is now steady and if the shows continue at the quality of the last 3 months i would expect the audience to increase.

Willie Stroker

Business is going well for Vince , the only thing he needs to work on is ppv buyrates , but he want changed the whole infrastructure for the iwc no chance at all , WWE is in a steady position , you don't have to watch it if its too childish for you , there are many other promotions other there like TNA and ROH .

Bubs101

Just watch MMA instead.

I barely watch wrestling at all these days and that's only when I'm alerted to a tremendous match with big names but I love hearing about it. The current affairs, the politics etc. Don't think there's a sport in the world with a more entertaining history

MudSkipper

jaykhunter wrote: »

in short I'd recommend you JUST watch the WWE/TNA PPVs - it's a better watch than the week-to-week slog

Used to be fairly big fan, but this is what I've been doing for the last couple of years, just so much easier on the brain....... bit of mindless popcorn violence, entertainment like a claude van damme movie with the goodness of being 'live' and like any ol' soap, even if you've missed a few episodes (raw/impact/etc) you'll still know what happened no matter how badly they 'f' it up

Tribesmen7

I think the standard of wrestling matches is better now than it was at anytime during the attitude era. Yeah there might not be the same excitement and shocking storylines but quality wise we get some great wrestling matches.

When the Attitude era ended in 2001 (after Wrestlemania 17) the standard went down hill big time. 2003-2005 was especially poor but its improved pretty well in the last few years. The last three months have been the best in the WWE since the Attitude era imo for excitement, good shows each week and top storylines.

davrho

Tribesmen7 wrote: »

I think the standard of wrestling matches is better now than it was at anytime during the attitude era. Yeah there might not be the same excitement and shocking storylines but quality wise we get some great wrestling matches.

Agree with this too. It always plays in my mind that those who said pre-attitude era the wrestling was crap and stale?

We are talking Bret Hart, Own Hart, Mr Perfect, Yokozuna and many, many more in their prime, yet it was deemed not good enough? The in ring entertainment was of better quality but the characters and story lines were sub standard.

The charaters were great in the attitude era but in ring ability was secondary to the audiences requirements

flahavaj

To the OP, the first thing I'd say is to stop hankering after the Attitude era. Those days are over. The spontanaiety, the feeling that anything could and would happen and the host of great characters at the top of the card just really doesn't exist anymore. I see people posting on wrestling forums every day comparing today's product with those glory days. You have to kinda let those days go, they are long gone and won't be back anytime soon. McMahon has found new ways of making billions of dollars and they unfortunately don't involve pushing the envelope creatively. Plus he has no competition to spur him on.

You next have to ask yourself if you can enjoy whats on offer at the moment. It may be that you can't and like many of the old WWE audience you may have to simply stop watching, or order a load of the old RAw seasons off a trading website and enjoy the nostalgia.

Or you could try and see the positives, the brilliance of heels like Punk, Orton and Jericho and accept guys like Cena for a guy whos amazing at what he does.

Or as others have said, think outside the box, get some old ROH shows, (I'd recommend some of the 2005 stuff where you'll recgonise quite a few faces like Punk) and watch wrestling done froma totally perspective than anuthing you've ever seen before.

Its really up to you, but as I said, forget the Attitude era, its dead and gone. Focus on the positives, the in ring product is better than it has ever been and WWE in 20010 has been better than any year of the last 5 or 6 IMO.

Last but not least, remember its only a bit of fun, don't take it too seriously or over do it.

And if you can't enjoy it, give up and try some MMA as Bubs said.

davrho

Fantastic post flahavaj. Hat off to you.

Nail hit on the head. I will be quoting that post on other wrestling sites. You will be given credit for it.

tdv123

davrho wrote: »

Agree with this too. It always plays in my mind that those who said pre-attitude era the wrestling was crap and stale?

We are talking Bret Hart, Own Hart, Mr Perfect, Yokozuna and many, many more in their prime, yet it was deemed not good enough? The in ring entertainment was of better quality but the characters and story lines were sub standard.

The charaters were great in the attitude era but in ring ability was secondary to the audiences requirements

Well I think you've hit the nail on the head there.

But it was like that long before the attitude era. The wrestling boom during the 80's the likes of Warrior & Hogan were the big names then but they were never great wrestlers either. Larger than life characters yes, great wrestlers certainley not. If it was about wrestling ability then the likes of Perfect,Hart,Million Dollar Man etc... who were all mid cards at the time would have been the top guys.

But thats always been the way the WWE has worked. I think it's incorrect to call them a wrestling company. Since the mid 90's they've been pushing the whole sports entertainmet slogging.

Tons of fans from the attitude era have said time & time again that there favourite match from the attitude era is Foley vs Undertaker HIAC, which was just basically a guy falling of a cage,falling through a cage & rolling around in thumbtacks. It had nothing to do with wrestling but it captured peoples imaginton.

Bounty Hunter

tdv123 wrote: »

Well I think you've hit the nail on the head there.

But it was like that long before the attitude era. The wrestling boom during the 80's the likes of Warrior & Hogan were the big names then but they were never great wrestlers either. Larger than life characters yes, great wrestlers certainley not. If it was about wrestling ability then the likes of Perfect,Hart,Million Dollar Man etc... who were all mid cards at the time would have been the top guys.

But thats always been the way the WWE has worked. I think it's incorrect to call them a wrestling company. Since the mid 90's they've been pushing the whole sports entertainmet slogging.

Tons of fans from the attitude era have said time & time again that there favourite match from the attitude era is Foley vs Undertaker HIAC, which was just basically a guy falling of a cage,falling through a cage & rolling around in thumbtacks. It had nothing to do with wrestling but it captured peoples imaginton.

gotta admit that was my favourite match as it obviously felt real i mean it went in no way to plan that match, you honeslty did not know what would be next.

I do think though that the past is always viewed through rose tinted glasses and as you say it has always been pretty similar and gone in cycles tbh and as Fozzy pointed out the WWE has actually been decent recently its just not what you remember though is it. Memorys funny like that

jaykhunter

I couldn't get into the New Generation Era. It's nice to see Bret and Owen but I could care less for that Polak faker Lex Luger and the Samoan Yokozuna I was never a big Razor or Diesel fan and didn't like Shawn until 96-97....Mid-card shenanigans with Doink and midgets, Totally Tropical Crush, no "real" Warrior or Hogan storylines and presentation; even Macho and Perfect look to have lost their emphasis. Rounding out the cards with Godwins, Smoking Guns, Blackjacks...jobbers like Kwang, Manowar, that blue condom Faarooq wore... it was all pretty awful imo :pac::pac::pac: fair balls to ya if you enjoyed it!

I can barely go back and watch Attitude Era PPVs - poor wrestling quality, but the storylines and characters were just fantastic. I'd sacrifice all the in-ring work-rate in the world for awesome characters and stories again.

Bounty Hunter

jaykhunter wrote: »

I couldn't get into the New Generation Era. It's nice to see Bret and Owen but I could care less for that Polak faker Lex Luger and the Samoan Yokozuna I was never a big Razor or Diesel fan and didn't like Shawn until 96-97....Mid-card shenanigans with Doink and midgets, Totally Tropical Crush, no "real" Warrior or Hogan storylines and presentation; even Macho and Perfect look to have lost their emphasis. Rounding out the cards with Godwins, Smoking Guns, Blackjacks...jobbers like Kwang, Manowar, that blue condom Faarooq wore... it was all pretty awful imo :pac::pac::pac: fair balls to ya if you enjoyed it!

I can barely go back and watch Attitude Era PPVs - poor wrestling quality, but the storylines and characters were just fantastic. I'd sacrifice all the in-ring work-rate in the world for awesome characters and stories again.

This way Pingu commeth :pac:

Its true though if you look ack at some (not all) attitude PPV most of the matches were garbage but there were always a select few great ones

tdv123

jaykhunter wrote: »

I couldn't get into the New Generation Era. It's nice to see Bret and Owen but I could care less for that Polak faker Lex Luger and the Samoan Yokozuna I was never a big Razor or Diesel fan and didn't like Shawn until 96-97....Mid-card shenanigans with Doink and midgets, Totally Tropical Crush, no "real" Warrior or Hogan storylines and presentation; even Macho and Perfect look to have lost their emphasis. Rounding out the cards with Godwins, Smoking Guns, Blackjacks...jobbers like Kwang, Manowar, that blue condom Faarooq wore... it was all pretty awful imo :pac::pac::pac: fair balls to ya if you enjoyed it!

I can barely go back and watch Attitude Era PPVs - poor wrestling quality, but the storylines and characters were just fantastic. I'd sacrifice all the in-ring work-rate in the world for awesome characters and stories again.

Oh god there was some absolute rubbish gimmicks back then. What the hell were people thinking?

Some other ones I rember were...

Max Moon - He was supposed to be some sort of robot from the future & had this awful techno song as his theme.

Damien Demento - "the outer reaches of your mind" was his actual hometown.

Ludvig Borga - Evil Finn who hated America because of the pollution

jaykhunter

tdv123 wrote: »

Ludvig Borga - Evil Finn who hated America

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtUk3hvWYzo

DM_7

For what its worth I enjoy WWE more now than I ever did. The attitude era was a bit OTT for me.

I have to say the recommendations made that if your not happy with wwe check out the alternatives like ROH don't make much sense in this case.

Anyone that liked the attitude era with its raunchiness would hate ROH.
If you are the type of person that likes MMA then ROH and other shows could appeal to you alright.

Reganio 2

I prefer it now than I did in the old days as well. Obviously I miss certain things like The Hardy Boyz (I know they are still around but when they were together and before Jeff went mad and Matt got fat), The Rock. But it gets a bad rep cause their is no blood.... Good, if you watch wrestling for the blood their is something wrong. I hate matches where their is blood its just pointless, if you want blood watch TNA, sure Ric Flair bloodies up during promos. If you give the shows time, yeah some of them can be crap, but a lot of them were crap during the attitude era you just forget them.

Like I said their are things I miss from the past like the Hardyz and The Rock, but now we havve Cody Rhodes, Jack Swagger, The Miz to name but 3. Who if you give them a chance they can wow you with their promo skills (Mainly the Miz) and their wrestling skills. People just assume its crap cause it dosn't have Stone Cold (Who I hated anyway) and The Rock.

ibFoxer

I have to say i haven't watched any product, be it TNA or WWE for a while now but i had a bit of time this morning and after looking some stuff up on the net, and watching some of the programming on sky i am genuinely looking forward to mania.