Unmarried couple

crodeghin

Hi,

we are a unmarried couple and we are expecting a baby. As we are not going to be married at the moment, we wonder if there is a simple way to give the guardianship to the father (me) before the birth.
We know already that after the birth we can apply for the guardianship with but a specific form..but what about if it happens something wrong during the delivery? THere is no simple way for parents to do a certified declaration about the father right to guardianship of a baby not born yet?

Thanks

partyguinness

Probably the best thing to do is for your wife to make a Will whereby she appoints you as testamentary guardian. You could then apply through the District Court for full guardianship and custody afterwards if someting was to happen.

Cunsiderthis

how about getting married?

RangeR

Cunsiderthis wrote: »

how about getting married?

You shouldn't have to get married to be realised as having rights to your own child.

Our man in Havana

Sadly the law is an ass in this regard.

james finn

partyguinness wrote: »

Probably the best thing to do is for your wife to make a Will whereby she appoints you as testamentary guardian. You could then apply through the District Court for full guardianship and custody afterwards if someting was to happen.

courts never give guardianship first time, very rare, i went for it and didnt get it for no reason, im told its the norm. i hope this new law will take that power away from the judges. they play god

james finn

the solicitor's love the law as it is now cause they milk it,

judges love the power,

dads love their kids

partyguinness

james finn wrote: »

courts never give guardianship first time, very rare, i went for it and didnt get it for no reason, im told its the norm. i hope this new law will take that power away from the judges. they play god

That's true where both parents are alive an kicking...but the OP is talking about a situation where something happens to the mother in childbirth..I am assuming death.

james finn

partyguinness wrote: »

That's true where both parents are alive an kicking...but the OP is talking about a situation where something happens to the mother in childbirth..I am assuming death.

not sure if you can leave a child in a will,

would be a good idea to look in to it as the courts are a joke,

maybe just have the lady put it on paper as this would stand up in court.

partyguinness

james finn wrote: »

not sure if you can leave a child in a will,

would be a good idea to look in to it as the courts are a joke,

maybe just have the lady put it on paper as this would stand up in court.

LOL...sorry...it's not about leaving a child in the Will like you would a house etc. It's about appointing someone as Guardian. It is perfectly acceptable and commonly used (and indeed encouraged).

It's even accepted by the Passport Office if they see you as a named Guardian in a Will they will allow you proceed with a child's application for a Passport.

james finn

partyguinness wrote: »

LOL...sorry...it's not about leaving a child in the Will like you would a house etc. It's about appointing someone as Guardian. It is perfectly acceptable and commonly used (and indeed encouraged).

It's even accepted by the Passport Office if they see you as a named Guardian in a Will they will allow you proceed with a child's application for a Passport.

the prob is the child has to be born first for him to be a guardian just like the lady now is not a guardian until the child is born

partyguinness

james finn wrote: »

the prob is the child has to be born first for him to be a guardian just like the lady now is not a guardian until the child is born

Yes but a Will 'speaks from death'..i.e. it has not legal effect until the moment the person dies. So the moment the mother dies the provisions of the Will kick in.

james finn

partyguinness wrote: »

Yes but a Will 'speaks from death'..i.e. it has not legal effect until the moment the person dies. So the moment the mother dies the provisions of the Will kick in.

still not sure about the will bit, really hope they change the law on guardianship soon. the law talks about equality and how great it is, then get you in to a family law court in secret and equality is out the window.

partyguinness

james finn wrote: »

still not sure about the will bit, really hope they change the law on guardianship soon. the law talks about equality and how great it is, then get you in to a family law court in secret and equality is out the window.

Well...I am sure about the Will bit...;)

But yes it can be very frustrating for a perfectly good father to be denied guardianship until he has proven himself after a given period of time...the default position is that fathers are bad people that must prove themselves to the Judge.

james finn

partyguinness wrote: »

Well...I am sure about the Will bit...;)

But yes it can be very frustrating for a perfectly good father to be denied guardianship until he has proven himself after a given period of time...the default position is that fathers are bad people that must prove themselves to the Judge.

the papers should print case by case each week and leave out the names involved and let people see how backward the courts are.

445279.ie

james finn wrote: »

courts never give guardianship first time, very rare

That's not true. I work in the courts and it's done every family law day in court.

If there is consent by the mother, she can sign a form of consent. On the day they both go in and it's done a dusted within a few minutes.

It's only if it's not by consent that it'll go to a full hearing and even then most times its granted.

james finn

445279.ie wrote: »

That's not true. I work in the courts and it's done every family law day in court.

If there is consent by the mother, she can sign a form of consent. On the day they both go in and it's done a dusted within a few minutes.

It's only if it's not by consent that it'll go to a full hearing and even then most times its granted.

only the judge and solicitors have that information because it is private cant see how you have that information unless your one of the above?

fathers are being refused guardianship and its a big problem, they dont protest about it if they got it.

445279.ie

As I said, I work in the courts and in my experience, if and when guardianship is refused, more often than not there's a very good reason for it. I certainly wouldn't say it's the Judge playing God (as said by another poster).

james finn

445279.ie wrote: »

As I said, I work in the courts and in my experience, if and when guardianship is refused, more often than not there's a very good reason for it. I certainly wouldn't say it's the Judge playing God (as said by another poster).

it should be made more equal then, the mother should have to apply for guardianship aswel, i cant see any normal reason why a father cant be a guardian of his child and if a judge has the power do to so yes he is playing god.

445279.ie

I'm not saying I agree with it. In fact, if it was the case that father's were automatically guardians it would make my life alot easier

The Labour Party are putting forward proposals to change the law. Just heard it on the radio the other day, but haven't really read the papers yet this week.

james finn

445279.ie wrote: »

I'm not saying I agree with it. In fact, if it was the case that father's were automatically guardians it would make my life alot easier

The Labour Party are putting forward proposals to change the law. Just heard it on the radio the other day, but haven't really read the papers yet this week.

I agree and the solicitors are milking it bigtime, i hope it changes soon, i have seen with my own eyes what goes on inside the court room and its a disgrace how these people (judges, solicitors) talk about equal rights outside of family law and then degrade fathers in private

445279.ie

True, as you said it's all in camera so no-one knows what really goes on.

I've seen Judges who are very reasonable and really listen and I've seen Judges who don't.

Unfortunately it depends on where you live most times

james finn

445279.ie wrote: »

True, as you said it's all in camera so no-one knows what really goes on.

I've seen Judges who are very reasonable and really listen and I've seen Judges who don't.

Unfortunately it depends on where you live most times

i agree and this is why judges who dont, really play god,

i have never seen anything like it how fathers are treated and in family law anything goes,

dermot_sheehan

Leaving aside the issue about whether the courts grant guardianship.

There is an easy way to become guardian if the mother is in agreement.

Both parents fill out this form http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1998/en/si/0005.html before a commissioner for oaths or solicitor.

james finn

gabhain7 wrote: »

Leaving aside the issue about whether the courts grant guardianship.

There is an easy way to become guardian if the mother is in agreement.

Both parents fill out this form http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1998/en/si/0005.html before a commissioner for oaths or solicitor.

most mothers would say no to the above, kinda takes her power away by given him rights and a father should not have to ask for rights to start with and that paper shows only the mother has the power so beg her

445279.ie

And the mother can turn around and rip it up if she wants to.

At least by going through the court you can get a copy order whenever

james finn

445279.ie wrote: »

And the mother can turn around and rip it up if she wants to.

At least by going through the court you can get a copy order whenever

it should be made law a father should not have to go to court for this just like the mother dosnt have to,

i never even met my child till 4 months ago and i had to wait a 15 months to have my case heard to see my child who i never met before then.

for no reason whats so ever, i missed over a year of my childs life due to waiting for the courts when i shouldnt have to, these are the people who talk about equal rights

dermot_sheehan

445279.ie wrote: »

And the mother can turn around and rip it up if she wants to.

At least by going through the court you can get a copy order whenever

She can rip up her own copy of it to her heart's content. Doesn't change the position, it makes the father guardian.

I should add you should make copies of the declaration after it's signed.

james finn

gabhain7 wrote: »

She can rip up her own copy of it to her heart's content. Doesn't change the position, it makes the father guardian.

I should add you should make copies of the declaration after it's signed.

their should be nottin to rip up, the father dosnt get the right to rip up anything cos he has no rights

crodeghin

thanks for the reply.

Anyway I am still confused..only a will can resolve the problem of death of my mother (don't worry she is ok and she is reading at this forum )??

I have already seen the guardianship form, but this is signable only after the birth.. I wonder if there is a similar form that can be signed by the mother and me before the birth

Thanks a lot

james finn

crodeghin wrote: »

thanks for the reply.

Anyway I am still confused..only a will can resolve the problem of death of my mother (don't worry she is ok and she is reading at this forum )??

I have already seen the guardianship form, but this is signable only after the birth.. I wonder if there is a similar form that can be signed by the mother and me before the birth

Thanks a lot

if she even put it on any plain paper it will hold up in court just like anything put on paper.

445279.ie

crodeghin wrote: »

thanks for the reply.

Anyway I am still confused..only a will can resolve the problem of death of my mother (don't worry she is ok and she is reading at this forum )??

I have already seen the guardianship form, but this is signable only after the birth.. I wonder if there is a similar form that can be signed by the mother and me before the birth

Thanks a lot

I've never seen one crodeghin, as said before the best thing is for your partner to make a will and have you appointed testamentary guardian in it

SLOOPY

445279.ie wrote: »

That's not true. I work in the courts and it's done every family law day in court.

If there is consent by the mother, she can sign a form of consent. On the day they both go in and it's done a dusted within a few minutes.

It's only if it's not by consent that it'll go to a full hearing and even then most times its granted.

That's how it worked in my case.Did'nt even have to go in,
left it to the solicitors to sort out.

I'm one of the lucky ones i guess,thankfully.

james finn

SLOOPY wrote: »

That's how it worked in my case.Did'nt even have to go in,
left it to the solicitors to sort out.

I'm one of the lucky ones i guess,thankfully.

a father should not have to be lucky in order to have the same rights as the mother, we live in 2010 and talk about equal rights.

SLOOPY

james finn wrote: »

a father should not have to be lucky in order to have the same rights as the mother, we live in 2010 and talk about equal rights.

I totally agree with you.But as it stands we have no rights.
We have to stand up in court and fight for everything.


In my case,it took 5 months of being called to court every month
before she agreed to me getting guardianship.

Never made it in to court as there was always something or other being demanded (not asked for) by the ex and her solicitor.

Took it for 5 months from them and then said enough.

Some things had been discussed with my solicitor and i'd
told her to go have a chat with the ex's solicitor and leave it with her
to ponder(what had been discussed).

10 minutes later,all demands dropped and guardianship agreed to.

It's best to be truthful and honest in these things
than to go and lie through your teeth.

You can't be found out in a lie if you're telling the truth.

Hope you get sorted and never give up.

Cunsiderthis

RangeR wrote: »

You shouldn't have to get married to be realised as having rights to your own child.

I agree, but then again i should be 6 foot 1 with model good looks....

the law may be an ass, the law is the law, and the simplest wat to solve the OP#s problem appears to be to get married.