5 years on and we're going nowhere

LegacyUser

Its my 5th anniversary. I'm 27 and my boyfriend is 28. I love him very much.

We seem to be going nowhere. We're still renting an apartment, complete with flatmate, and there seems to be no movement towards even considering a place of our own. I'd love to be heading towards buying a house but he seems so uninterested. The rent isn't all that much as we're a little outside the city and obviously the rent from the flatmate helps (and she's a nice girl so no complaints there) but our savings are minimal. This is something we both need to work on, but I do feel like there is little point as he seems to be perfectly happy to stay as we are.

I'm feeling really stuck. I'm 28 at the end of this year and I want to start thinking about marriage and kids. I don't want to be 35 years old, still renting a shared apartment, with no kids and no ring on my finger and I genuinely feel like this is where we're headed.

I've brought this up with him on numerous occasions and all I get is "Yeah, I know." Thats it. No discussion. I've even clarified that we do actually want the same things, marriage and kids. He says he absolutely does want these things but I don't know if I believe that. If he wants it then surely he'd want us to work towards achieving it. Even my friends joke that he'll never propose to me. I'm seeing all my friends and relatives moving on and getting engaged/married/pregnant and I feel like it'll never be me.

I feel so upset over this and I'm sick of having the same one way conversation. I don't know what to do. I love him and want to build my future with him but I don't know if he feels the same way.

I've tried the calm and soft approach and I've tried the forceful approach. The latter just made me feel like a horrible nag but the results were the same. Has anyone ever been in the same position? Any and all advice would be appreciated.

Shayman

I'd say it's time for shock tactics. Ultimatums. If you really want this, the clock is ticking so if he's not ready to move you need to move on and find someone who is! Hope this helps!!:)

StillWaters

I don't normally believe in ultimatums, but this guy seems so laid back he is horizontal.
You could propose you know? Its not unheard of, but you may spend the rest of your life being the driving force in the relationship?
He just doesn't seem as driven by you, at least not by the same goals.

LegacyUser

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

I'm not one for ultimatums either and to be honest I feel like I shouldn't have to. We're meant to be partners and he tells me he wants to the same things, I just wish he'd show me.

As for me proposing to him. I've joked about this before and he's made it very clear he wouldn't be comfortable with that at all.

God the more I think about it the more it seems we just don't want the same things. I know I shouldn't be judging my relationship by those of others but I can't help feel envious when I see people, who've been together for a shorter time than we have, moving on with things.

Maybe its just a 5 year itch. Makes me sad though.

Moylaragh

Oh no, dont propose as another poster said.
You will wonder for the rest of your life if you forced him into something he didnt want.

I think you need an honest conversation. Ask him direct questions and accept no bullsh!t answers.

If he still claims that he wants to get engaged, married and have kids but things dont move on - you can only come to the conclusion he might not want it with you.

I'm sorry to say that but it could be worse to waste your time and look back with regret.

krudler

I feel so upset over this and I'm sick of having the same one way conversation. I don't know what to do. I love him and want to build my future with him but I don't know if he feels the same way.

Ask him, as in sit him down, dont nag or complain but basically tell him what you wrote here, us men, god love us sometimes need a kick in the hole when it comes to these things. you've been together long enough where he cant play the commitment-phobe card. At least you'll hopefully get a straight answer,ultimatums generally dont work and can make the person come across as pushy, start with the moving in thing, if the rent isnt that big an issue then get him to see all the benefits, no flatmate to tiptoe around, all the space in the house to yourselves etc etc. sounds like you're just coasting along and the relationship needs a jump start.

iguana

First off decide exactly what you want right now. You want to live alone with him, to buy a house, to get married and have kids. That's sort of a lot t o throw at him. What do you want first? Do you want to move out and rent a place that's just the two of you? Or would you prefer to stay where you are for now but open a joint savings account so you can save a deposit for a house/ money for a wedding? Or would you prefer to get engaged/married first? Do you want to start trying for a baby straight away or would you rather be married and have a house/a deposit before starting a family.

And last of all, if he doesn't want to do any of those things right now, do you want to stay with him? It's not an ultimatum if you really mean it. If you really don't want to continue on as you are than you should make that clear to him. Then tell him what the first thing you would like to do is and ask him if he can do that with you.

Try to take each step one at a time, imo working out a savings plan should be the first step. It's not going to be possible to buy a house without having a decent deposit and it could take you several years to get that kind of financing together. (Which is good timing in a way, because the odds are house prices will be quite a bit lower by then.) And you will also probably need some money saved to get married unless you are happy with a very basic wedding. So ask him to sit down and do a budget with you and work out how much you can afford to save each month.

If you decide that nice as your flatmate is you really do want to live just the two of you do a bit of research before approaching him. Work out how much it will cost you to not have a flatmate, you may be pleasantly surprised as rent prices have fallen. You can bring this up as part of your budgeting talk. And then you can both decide if it's what you want to do straight away.

How Strange

OP, IMO you both are at the sh1t or get off the pot stage of your relationship. You can't continue to coast along with no plans for the future.

Iguana gave very good advice and I would take it into account. You need to know what you want for both of you in the future before you can ask it of your OH.

Once you've done that I honestly think it's ultimatum time. When I was around 26-28 there were a spate of long term relationship breakups for exactly the same reasons you've described. Relationships coast along with no direction for years, they go stale and then one person wants to plan for the future while the other is reluctant.

Find out what you want, discuss it with your OH making it clear that you want to starting planning for a future together. You can't drag him into it so he's either up for it or he's not. I also believe a man won't commit to marriage until he is absolutely 100% ready to do it.

The downside to all this is you may not get the answer you want so you have to be prepared for that. However, even if that is the case at least you know now and not in another 2 or 3 years because if marriage and children are important to you then you shouldn't be with someone who doesn't want the same things.

LegacyUser

ok, first off, im 36, single (by choice!) sharing and having the time of my life so dont think cos you're 28 its the end of it and relax.

Possibly you should just sit down with him, without tv or any distraction around and talk, straight to the point...that is what you want and now and ask him what he wants in the near future at least...simple as that.

If it is so important to you to have all those things to be happy then maybe revaluate your life with him, everything you mention wont bring you happiness unless you are already happy but apparently you dont from what i got in your post. it sad to see that some people feels that a ring, mariage with a house added with kids is the secret to success and happiness.

Dont give him ultimatum, wrong way in my opinion and sure way to drive him to do something he might not deep down want to do, in the end it will crash.

so to be blunt, sorry bout that, be honest with yourself and evaluate how happy or unhappy you are with him right now and talk with him about what and if he is happy and wants and go from there.

best of luck

athlone M

I have to say I don't agree with giving a man an ultimatum in my experience doing this usually turns out in the way that you don't want it to. I'm 27 and married for coming up on 4 years now and we have 2 children. I can't say that I know how you feel but my husband and myself were on the other end of the plain we were as serious as soon as we started going out, we were like an old married couple and believe me thats fine I adore him and our family and our life but I was only 20 when we got engaged and at that time all my friends were going out on the town going off on girlie holidays and I began to wonder, should this be what I am doing, (as the old saying goes, the grass is always greener on the other side). Perhaps you feel that as you said you see so many of your friends and relatives getting engaged/married/ having a baby that you feel this is what you should be doing? I'm not saying that you are wrong to want some signs that this guy is serious about you and your relationship but maybe you could take it one step at a time, perhaps you could talk to him about maybe asking the girl to find a place of her own? I don't know if I was much help to you but I wish you the best of luck.

LegacyUser

igloogirl wrote: »

ok, first off, im 36, single (by choice!) sharing and having the time of my life so dont think cos you're 28 its the end of it and relax.

If thats what works for you then great. I don't see why you feel the need to belittle anyone who wants something different.

igloogirl wrote: »

If it is so important to you to have all those things to be happy then maybe revaluate your life with him, everything you mention wont bring you happiness unless you are already happy but apparently you dont from what i got in your post. it sad to see that some people feels that a ring, mariage with a house added with kids is the secret to success and happiness.

Seriously? Its sad that I want to know if myself and my partner of 5 years are heading in the same direction and want the same things? I want to marry him because I love him and I want children someday in the future and I want them with him. My relationship is a good one but we've hit a point where I need to know that we're going the same way. If kids and marriage isn't for him, despite his protestations to the contrary, then I think I deserve to know now instead of finding out another 5 years down the line.

I'm under no illusions that marriage and children are the secret to success and happiness but they are things that I want. Just because you don't want the same things doesn't make me sad. Looking down your nose at others is, however.

To everyone else, especially Iguana, thank you for the helpful advice. I think a conversation does need to be had and I have no intention of giving any ultimatums.

G-Money

I think I agree in that giving ultimatums are a bad idea. I once read a good saying that ultimatums are an attempt by someone to influence a situation they have no control over. I don't know if that's always the case, but I think it's a good description of most ultimatums.

I agree with previous posters. I think you need to work out exactly what you want. You say "we're going nowhere" and that's probably a fair point, but have a clear first step in mind. I think perhaps throwing a load of stuff at him all in one go is a bad move. Saying "lets move in, get married, and have children" all in one go I think would scare most people off or at least make them very hesitant. He does seem very laid back and I think if you throw too much at him in one go, it will just make him even more reluctant.

So step 1, what's the first thing you'd like? Decide what that is, whether it's a joint account (although I know a married couple who don't have a joint account and it seems to work well for them). Personally, I wouldn't mind having a joint account and putting money into that each month or whatever, but I don't think I could let someone else access my savings.

Is it finding a place to live by yourselves? I think you should pick one thing and suggest it. You have seemed to realise that the forceful approach doesn't work and I think that's a good thing. But I think if you suggest something and say you want to go for it, and he doesn't do anything. Then take some time and then decide whether you want to stay with him.

I'm not in a relationship at the moment but I think eventually if the girl was acting like your bf, I'd tell her I was ending it. I wouldn't say "do x or I'm leaving". I'd give them a chance, several probably. But if it seemed like it was never going to happen, I'd tell them I was ending it. If they asked why, I'd say why (explaining that I wanted things to proceed and its obvious they never will etc). It's ok to be patient but you can't wait forever.

Whatever happens OP, hope it works out for the best.

LegacyUser

if you dont mind OP let us know how you get on, im in the same situation

LegacyUser

waow, chill!!

gee, it was all a status on all relationships in general, i was saying people not you particularly!

but hey, if you're so jumpy on one little post, not meant to be offending than i seriously feel for your bf!

in your situation, i wouldnt have wait 5 years to bring all those concerns or issues to my bf.

but hey, before you go off, its a comment/opinion, its board after all!

good luck!

LegacyUser

Igloogirl wrote: »

waow, chill!!

gee, it was all a status on all relationships in general, i was saying people not you particularly!

but hey, if you're so jumpy on one little post, not meant to be offending than i seriously feel for your bf!

Your comment was insulting. You were responding to me so yes, I took it that you were saying its sad to see that I think a ring on my finger and a house with kids will make me happy. Why did I take it that way? Well, because thats what you meant. I really don't care what your opinion is on people who like to be in stable relationships and move forward in those relationships. YOu think marriage and kids is for mugs, thats your perogative. I'm sure you'd be insulted if I responded to your post by saying that the advice of a single woman heading for her 40s who still houseshares isn't exactly what I'm looking for. Since you're clearly unable to respond in a helpful and civil manner (as compounded by your above comment) you'll have to forgive me if I choose to ignore your "advice".

Igloogirl wrote: »

in your situation, i wouldnt have wait 5 years to bring all those concerns or issues to my bf.

Reading my original post might help. I have mentioned this to him on numerous occasions. His response has been minimal, he's happy to coast along renting a crappy apartment with a third person and I'm not content with that. That doesn't make me sad or unreasonable. I can assure you, you have no need to pity my boyfriend. He has it good as there are plenty of people who would simply walk on this relationship instead of wanting to move ahead.

unreghi, I'll let you know how it goes. At the moment there's a lot of stuff going on with a very ill family member and a recent death so I'm not sure I can handle the big chat right now.

Thanks again to all those who took the time to reply with good advice.

LegacyUser

SingleLadies wrote: »

Your comment was insulting. You were responding to me so yes, I took it that you were saying its sad to see that I think a ring on my finger and a house with kids will make me happy. Why did I take it that way? Well, because thats what you meant. I really don't care what your opinion is on people who like to be in stable relationships and move forward in those relationships. YOu think marriage and kids is for mugs, thats your perogative. I'm sure you'd be insulted if I responded to your post by saying that the advice of a single woman heading for her 40s who still houseshares isn't exactly what I'm looking for. Since you're clearly unable to respond in a helpful and civil manner (as compounded by your above comment) you'll have to forgive me if I choose to ignore your "advice".



Reading my original post might help. I have mentioned this to him on numerous occasions. His response has been minimal, he's happy to coast along renting a crappy apartment with a third person and I'm not content with that. That doesn't make me sad or unreasonable. I can assure you, you have no need to pity my boyfriend. He has it good as there are plenty of people who would simply walk on this relationship instead of wanting to move ahead.

unreghi, I'll let you know how it goes. At the moment there's a lot of stuff going on with a very ill family member and a recent death so I'm not sure I can handle the big chat right now.

Thanks again to all those who took the time to reply with good advice.

No bother, good luck with everything

Idbatterim

I think you have to ask the question "is it that he does want it just not right now" or "does want it just not with you". I think it comes to a make or break stage, after 5 years and at 28 and 27, if he knows its very important for you, I think he should do the right thing and commit or just end it and let you go out and seek a partner at the same wavelength. If your with MR wrong, your not out meeting MR Right. I think its quite a difficult situation because almost all women want the same things and have a rough map of what they want and by when it should happen, and alot of men dont have the same worries about ageing, kids etc, I think women see it as what they will be gaining, whereas men see it as what they will be losing. Marriage, kids, buying a house are all massive decisions. I have a certain degree of sympathy for alot of guys and women in this situation, its not easy. But if he really does know one way or another, and is just floating along because its more comfortable, I dont condone that...

metrovelvet

Ultimatums are a bad idea because you are giving the other person all the power.

I think you should make it clear about what you want and ask him if he wants the same. If he doesnt then ask yourself if you can accept that, and if you cannot you will have to make some changes. Do not pressure him, do not get mad at him, but be clear and prepared for any possible answer. Let him have time to think about it too.

And by the way, by living with him you have given him no reason to marry you.

LegacyUser

stop being so jumpy and read my first post again princess,

by the way you react you sound like a 22 years old not 28, if you read my original post I was in no way insulting you or putting you down you , stop the drama. I was giving my general view as well as opinion and suggestion now.. if you cant handle it then dont post on a public board and call your girlfriends so you can go whinning all you want.

you seem to have very short temper, rightfully maybe as you have family issues which im genuinely sorry to hear, but dont get all fuss up because i dont go along everyone else and say what you want to hear.

I pretty much said what Metrovelvet just said, in living with him, and even more so waiting 5 years, you gave him no reason to marry you, as you said he has it well. So now, why would he change that. Most guys, not all but most, know if the girl they are with is the one withing 2 years....why yours hasnt make any further commitments to you god knows why but having let him have it all for so long is not going to be easy, if at all to be honest, to change.
At least prepare yourself for the worst.

I hope for your sake you dont jump up to his neck as you seem to be so overacting and only reading between the lines when you have a chat with him, swallow a chill pill before hand and relax, nothing is gain by being agressive in the matter of the hearts.

again, best of luck.

LegacyUser

igloogirl wrote: »

stop being so jumpy and read my first post again princess,

by the way you react you sound like a 22 years old not 28, if you read my original post I was in no way insulting you or putting you down you , stop the drama. I was giving my general view as well as opinion and suggestion now.. if you cant handle it then dont post on a public board and call your girlfriends so you can go whinning all you want.

First of all, I can assure you I am not being jumpy. I actually find your posts laughable. Also, saying "I'm not being insulting" before you insult someone doesn't negate any insulting comment. Its akin to "I'm not racist...but..."

Your general view on people who want to get married, sad and all as you find them, is entirely irrelevant to my situation. I have laid out my position and I am looking for advice on that position. If you want to discuss your general view then why not go start a thread in After Hours/Humanities/Weddings & Marriage?

igloogirl wrote: »

you seem to have very short temper, rightfully maybe as you have family issues which im genuinely sorry to hear, but dont get all fuss up because i dont go along everyone else and say what you want to hear.

Its not about what I want to hear. Nobody else here has had a problem in their response, some have told me he may want those things just not with me. Not very nice to hear but its good advice. You however, felt the need to throw in your tuppence worth about how sad you find it that some people might want marriage and kids. Its insulting. I'm sure that passes you by though.

igloogirl wrote: »

I pretty much said what Metrovelvet just said,

No, you didn't.

igloogirl wrote: »

I hope for your sake you dont jump up to his neck as you seem to be so overacting and only reading between the lines when you have a chat with him, swallow a chill pill before hand and relax, nothing is gain by being agressive in the matter of the hearts.

The only one who has been reading between the lines is yourself. I find it very amusing that you think I have a short temper because I had the audacity to call you out on your insulting response. I'd appreciate it if you would keep your comments to yourself. You've made your point (I'm sure there's one in there somewhere) and we all know what your stance is on the issue.

Metrovelvet wrote:

And by the way, by living with him you have given him no reason to marry you.

See, I don't think marriage should even be considered without making sure you can live together first. He feels the same way. We were once discussing his cousin who proposed to his girlfriend after 6 months without having lived together and he said he could never do that and would have to live with someone for at least 2 years before proposing. I understand what you're saying though...why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?

Idbatterim wrote:

I think its quite a difficult situation because almost all women want the same things and have a rough map of what they want and by when it should happen, and alot of men dont have the same worries about ageing, kids etc,

Yeah, see I always said I'd love to have kids in my early 30s. I want to be young enough to enjoy my children. I'd also like to not be in my 60s when they're in college. Its not that I want marriage and babies right now this minute. I just want to be heading in the direction to have a stable environment for when we do have children. Even just to start saving for a deposit for a house. Anytime I suggest we head over to open the joint account, which he says he's up for, he's always busy with something. I think I'm going to open a credit union account of my own and start saving without him.

If he told me marriage wasn't for him but that he wants children with me I'd accept that. Marriage isn't as important to me as children are and he knows this.

He's off out with the lads today for the rugby so I think I'll sit down and plan out what I'm going to say to him to get the ball rolling.

Thanks again.

LegacyUser

igloogirl wrote: »

ok, first off, im 36, single (by choice!) sharing and having the time of my life

it sad to see that some people feels that a ring, mariage with a house added with kids is the secret to success and happiness.

In my experience. The woman who go around saying I love being single it's great. Marriage kids etc are not for me I love my freedom and expensive shoes too much, I don't need those other things to make me happy, I make my own happiness.
Are the ones who cry themselves to sleep because they are lonely and can't get a man to marry them. I know woman like this, now they are beautiful, polished to perfection, toned gym bodies, great careers and power, expensive stylish outfits, bed any man they want. But they break down, because they can't find someone to love them or commit to them.

Idbatterim

Op you clearly know what you want. Could I ask you do you really want it with this man, or is it that you dont want to start from scratch again? Is it a case that this man is just a way of getting what you want? This is a question not a statement by the way. I was reading an article the other day and it was saying how alot of women know what they want and the relationship isnt so much about the two people as it is about the guy effectively being a sperm donor and provider... It would be interesting to get a females perspective on this.I reckon as we all get older but especially women, searching for mr or ms perfect takes a back seat to finding mr or ms will do...

LegacyUser

Idbatterim wrote: »

Op you clearly know what you want. Could I ask you do you really want it with this man, or is it that you dont want to start from scratch again? Is it a case that this man is just a way of getting what you want? This is a question not a statement by the way. I was reading an article the other day and it was saying how alot of women know what they want and the relationship isnt so much about the two people as it is about the guy effectively being a sperm donor and provider... It would be interesting to get a females perspective on this.I reckon as we all get older but especially women, searching for mr or ms perfect takes a back seat to finding mr or ms will do...

I honestly want it with him. I got with him when I was 22 years of age and babies and marriage wasn't on my mind. He's my best friend as well as my boyfriend and I think he'll make a brilliant dad. Personally I couldn't be with someone just so I could have a child. That being said, if it turns out he's been lying about wanting children then its a deal breaker for me. We need want the same things in order for this to work out.

LegacyUser

Posters, at what age roughly do you think its make or break if you have been together several years and are currently in you mid too mid late twenties?

seenitall

The OP's issue rang a familiar bell, so I had to register just to add in my 2 cents. I happen to feel pretty strongly that so-called laid back guys nowadays have it too good and are generally not being fair on their women who have the biological clock to consider. Time waits for no-one.

Here is a sobering story to consider: I have a good friend who is 36, same as his girlfriend. They have been together for 10 years this year. Most of it living together. No talk of marriage, ever. But now she has started to talk to him about having children. She even mentioned to me to talk to him about it. I can just imagine her making the rounds with all his friends, trying to get them to put in a good word about having kids in his ear. I feel very, very sorry for her, as I know him very well (and he talked to me about the issue) and he is way too self-centred and comfortable as he is, to make such a big concession to his current lifestyle as having kids. The situation she is in is humiliating and undignified, as she has absolutely no leverage in a relationship with a self-centered and selfish guy. (This guy is a good friend of mine [loyal and caring - as a friend], but even he will admit as much about himself.)

I would not want to be in this woman's position for anything. Because she loves this guy and wants to stay with him (not to mention she probably feels time is running out for her if they were to break up, to find someone else and start a family with them), she is effectively powerless in that relationship. He has all the power, as he obviously cares less about her than she does about him. And there you have it: the reality of modern relationships - whoever cares more, is the loser. (This is just one example, I have seen or heard about the same or similar story A LOT.)

So my advice on this issue is: think about it long and hard; do you want to find yourself in the same position as my friend's gf 5 or 10 years down the line? You obviously don't, and I am glad that you seem to be moving in the right direction here, as it is pretty obvious to me that she has wasted ten years of her life, and is continuing on the path to big old Nowhere - for the sake of "love". (Sheeeesh... "love" has a lot to answer for.)

I have faith that, if your Love doesn't step up to the plate for you in due (and reasonable) time, you will know what to do. Break-ups can hurt something terrible, but a wasted life hurts a hell of a lot more.

The best of luck to you!

LegacyUser

SingleLadies,

I read your story and find myself in a very similar situation. I am in my early 30's and am at the stage where i have had the chat. I hope you have had your's and have had some satisfactory answers.

miec

I would look at his actions but what he says and judging from his actions he has no desire for a further commitment, however, I would say this I have often known men in their 20s be very laid back and suddenly hit their 30s and get the desperate urge to settle down, this could happen in your case Op but only you will know for sure.

Neyite

op, there is nothing wrong with you checking that you are both aiming for the same direction. if he says he is maybe you need to do the maths with him:

firstly ask him how many kids he sees himself with, then count up the year of trying, a year for each child, plus add on a couple of years to allow for miscarriages or fertility issues. so if you aim for 3 kids it might take you 6 years, or more.

a womans fertility starts to decline from the age of 35, and while you can still have babies in your forties, the risks are greater and a lot of women choose not to have a pregnancy in their forties.

then factor in if you want to own a home before this, do the time sums for saving for that, then an engagement and wedding planning etc.

by the time you estimate it, its pretty much the best part of 10 years or so.

i know someone who had an oh like yours, and thats what she did over a bottle of wine one night, keeping it lighthearted - her bloke had just never thought of the time limits until it was worked out for him. they are now building their house and trying for a family, all his decision.

LegacyUser

the thing is, that in alot of cases the men dont want it (marriage, kids etc) as much as the women do want it. And we know happens in those cases when women become pregnant unplanned (its MY decision). There are several men I know, who appear to have capitualted to their gf's and wives nagging and to me it appears like they are regretting their decisions big time. Its just too big a decision to make. On the other hand if the guys knows ultimately he doesnt want this, then he should be honest about this and let the woman go out and find a guy that does!