I.T. Band problems sorted - thanks for advice

DonVincenzo

Hi Folks
I'm a 1st time poster on this forum, but ART Forum lurker since I started running again 10 months ago.

Thanks to advice I've picked up from numerous threads on here, I think I've finally sorted fairly serious IT Band problems I've had, on & off for over 8/9 years (hope I don't speak too soon!!).

I suppose the purpose of this mail is that - perhaps my account of how I've sorted this problemo, will be of use to other people who are affected by this kinda pain. If you suffer with IT Band probs, you may wanna read on, but for the rest of ye, this mail could be a bit long!!

My IT band pain has been dormant since I gave up football around 5 or 6 years ago. As I've been mainly cycling ever since, the lack of impact on the bike meant I never had to deal with IT Band problems.

However - I was bitten by the running bug last year, when a load of folk from work entered the Dingle Half Marathon. I live near the Phoenix Park & it was just amazing running in there 3 evenings a week in the 3 months leading up to Dingle - I was hooked. As I had an alright fitness base from cycling, I ended up doing the 1/2 marathon in a decent enough time for a 1st timer.

However - while training for this event, on & off - my IT Band problems resurfaced and finally - over the Christmas period (after Dingle) - this pain wiped me out altogether. Around 4kms into my run each time my knee would be in agony. The days when I ran through it, I would be in serious pain & unable to walk afterwards.

So - based on numerous threads on this forum - this is how I dealt with it:

1) Physio - a few folk recommended Ciaran Fitzpatrick in Ballinteer. An ex-runner himself, he has helped me with numerous muscular / IT Band problems I've had, since I've starting running again. He really lays into you - inflicts so much pain, but is a miracle worker!

2) Replace my Orthotics - At the end of my soccer days 5yrs ago, I got prescribed Orthotics. I was unhappy with the service provided by the (very highly qualified) physio at the time. He analysed me for 30 mins & charged me €390 for the assessment & orthotics (which were made of bleedin rock). When I explained this to my physio - he said that many of the Athletes he has treated fly to Belgium to "Running Science Labs" in Beveren & explained the service to me. He also recommended other IRish Physios BUT Long story short - cheap flight over to Brussels (€50), they picked me up at the airport, analysed my running gait, back scans, leg scans etc.. which took over 3 hours. Discovered that one leg is 16mms shorter than the other - which no gait analysis would ever show up! Manufactured 2 sets of Orthotics to correct the various imbalances and tested these orthotics in around 30 pairs of running shoes to find the right match. All in cost of 2 x pairs Orthotics & scans etc... €400 (vs €390 for 1 pair in Ireland 5 yrs ago). Amazing service. Can't recommend highly enough.

3) Replaced running shoes (see above) - €110 Asics

4) Bought a foam roller (Irishfit website - roller called "the grid") & use it religiously after all runs to work the IT Band. This has been a key part of my rehab & would recommend this.

5) Stretch, stretch & stretch again. IT Band stretches - focus on stretches in the lower back. After every run (& cycle when I remember).

Finally - I've had 1 month running completely pain & niggle free. For the 1st time ever, I feel fluid in my running movements. The 16mm difference in my leg size was causing serious stress on both legs & causing me all sorts of problems when I was playing football or running. Now - I feel great.

I've registered for my 1st Marathon (Berlin in September) and now my main problem is not a niggle/injury after every single run, its trying to balance my cycling and running training. From what I've read though, it is possible to train for a marathon with 3 days a week running, as long as you combine with cross training (I cycle 2/3 times a week). Anyway - thats another threads worth.

Just like to say thanks to all the posters on here who have given IT Band advice in the past.

Cheers

The Don

yop

Good post but can I ask what the IT band is? Where it is and what symptoms?

DonVincenzo

yop wrote: »

Good post but can I ask what the IT band is? Where it is and what symptoms?

According to Runnersworld website -
Iliotibial band syndrome (ITBS) -The iliotibial band is a piece of connective tissue that runs along the outside of the thigh. If it's tight or inflameds, it can cause severe knee pain. The ITB attaches to the knee and helps stabilize and move the joint. When the ITB isn't working properly, movement of the knee (and, therefore, running) becomes very painful. According to various studies that I came across when researching my own IT Band problem, approx 33 percent of Runners have reported having ITBS in the past year - which makes it fairly common indeed!!

I get my pain on the outside of my knees. when its bad, the pain wakes me up at night OR even worse, I can't walk!!

Thus the relief in getting it sorted recently.

tawfeeredux

Hi DonVincenzo, interesting post. Good to hear of someone getting over a problem like this. Have had IT band problems myself in the past & know what a nightmare it can be.

Any chance you could PM me Ciaran Fitzpatrick's details, as I'm thinkin of getting a second opinion on an Achilles tendon problem.

pauric1

glad to hear you got sorted out. i got orthotics last year aswell for shin splints (€390 aswell) and they worked for a while but they are back with a vengeance. i was told by the physio that i would definately be cured with them. dont suppose i'll get a refund. :mad:

P

yop

DonVincenzo wrote: »

According to Runnersworld website -
Iliotibial band syndrome (ITBS) -The iliotibial band is a piece of connective tissue that runs along the outside of the thigh. If it's tight or inflameds, it can cause severe knee pain. The ITB attaches to the knee and helps stabilize and move the joint. When the ITB isn't working properly, movement of the knee (and, therefore, running) becomes very painful. According to various studies that I came across when researching my own IT Band problem, approx 33 percent of Runners have reported having ITBS in the past year - which makes it fairly common indeed!!

I get my pain on the outside of my knees. when its bad, the pain wakes me up at night OR even worse, I can't walk!!

Thus the relief in getting it sorted recently.

Oh sh1*t, thats exactly whats up with my knee

Thought it was a strain and was resting it for the last 3 days with ice and heat packs regular and intended to head back tomorrow but it looks like it could ITB!

Thanks for that.

DonVincenzo

yop wrote: »

Oh sh1*t, thats exactly whats up with my knee

Thought it was a strain and was resting it for the last 3 days with ice and heat packs regular and intended to head back tomorrow but it looks like it could ITB!

Thanks for that.

Yop - from what I've read on this forum - many folk have been able to sort this IT Band problem with rest / ice etc... So fingers crossed your in that category.

However - many runners seem to have it a little more severe & as you can see, eventually I had to go the whole hog treatment wise to get it sorted (i.e. physio, rest, foam roller, orthotics, new runners, stretching, strengthening etc...). I am so glad I did though, as it was getting to the stage where I would've had to make some hard decisions about continuing distance running.

Hope you sort out yer knee Yop.

Also - tawfeeredux - I've PM'd you Ciaran's details. To clarify - he is a physical therapist, as opposed to a physio. Different people have quite strong views on the merits of either qualification. All I can say is - in my experience - I prefer someone who actually works on you intensively to help overcome injuries (where appropriate) rather than telling you to rest for X number of weeks. Ciaran worked miracles on me in terms of hamstring, and calf injuries in particular, in the build up to Dingle half marathon.

Best of luck.
Don

jmdsk

DonVincenzo, Very interesting story. I am new to this running game. Iv'e been trying since the new year and had managed a couple of 10km's. Recently i have been getting serious pains in my calf. My Physio said I need orthotics. A nice €330. great for the not so serious runner, but hey he knows best. If they work!! But €400 for 2 pairs sounds much better. and an alround better service. Could you PM me details of the Belguim place? Thanks

Barty

Great post DonVincenzo - very informative.
I'm also struggling with ITB pain at the moment. I'm getting it treated and also doing the stretching to try and build up the muscles around the knee. I also have orthotics which I got about 3 years ago (for around €400). Just a question regarding the orthotics, I remember when I was getting mine I asked about getting two pairs (one for shoes one for running) but was told that it's better to just get one pair as my feet would get used to the same pair whereas if I had two pairs then my feet would never settle in either pair. Just wondering were the two pairs you got the exact same or are they slightly different and also what was the company in Belgium's reasoning for supplying two pairs? Also, how did you go about booking in with them - it is definitely something I'd like to look into (if I can grab a couple of cheap flights).

tunney

Orthotics are a cop out and the last refuge of a poorly trained, poorly skilled or lazy physio in my opinion. Just my 2c.

The Rook

tunney wrote: »

Orthotics are a cop out and the last refuge of a poorly trained, poorly skilled or lazy physio in my opinion. Just my 2c.

And now for my 2c!

I don't agree with this blanket statement I'm afraid. While there clearly is a large number of issues that physiotherapists can fix by manipulation, strengthening and exercises there are some issues which cannot be fixed by these methods alone.

Orthotics assist the wearer in getting back on the road / track as soon as possible and when worn in addition to carrying out the required exercises orthotics can be a huge help in shortening recovery times.

They do provide value, but the wearer should be cognisant of the fact that they're not a cure, but a treatment.

mitresize5

pity you cant have one of those poll threads you see on other websites to see what everybodies individual experience are with them.

e.g. Best thing since sliced pan or thrown in the back of the wardrobe (like mine)

matrixroyal

Good helpful post.

I have made progress on my itb problems with the foam roller, deep massage , correcting my bike position and stretching.

Aside from this, I have ditched my orthotics. It's only my 2cent but I felt that they were not doing me much good and that my arches would just get lazy ( and atrophy ) if the orthotics were doing the work for them. I have done some exercises which work the arches ( along with other work to strenthen and balance my leg muscles ) and I do feel better since I ditched the orthotics.

grahmmorgan

I have been plagued with IT band problem's for the last 2 year's,The best investment I made was without doubt was a foam roller,I have not missed training in age's and did my first race in over a year yesterday.Will look into a visit to Belgium in the summer,it sounds like a worthwhile trip.Great post by the way.

DonVincenzo

Barty wrote: »

Great post DonVincenzo - very informative.
I'm also struggling with ITB pain at the moment. I'm getting it treated and also doing the stretching to try and build up the muscles around the knee. I also have orthotics which I got about 3 years ago (for around €400). Just a question regarding the orthotics, I remember when I was getting mine I asked about getting two pairs (one for shoes one for running) but was told that it's better to just get one pair as my feet would get used to the same pair whereas if I had two pairs then my feet would never settle in either pair. Just wondering were the two pairs you got the exact same or are they slightly different and also what was the company in Belgium's reasoning for supplying two pairs? Also, how did you go about booking in with them - it is definitely something I'd like to look into (if I can grab a couple of cheap flights).

Barty - to keep it short - 1 pair are for everyday use & are quite rigid. The 2nd pair are specifically for running & have a bit more give (the pair I'd had in Ireland 5/6 years earlier were made outta bleedin plaster of paris!!). This is their website -

http://www.rslab.be/nl/home

I can pm you the guys details if you like. The price included pick up & drop back to the airport (over 50kms each way), several hours of scans/analysis to try to get to the route of the problem, manufacture & test 2 pairs of othothics, test them with around 30 pairs of trainers, lunch while you are waiting etc..

Cant speak highly enough of the service I received.

DonVincenzo

tunney wrote: »

Orthotics are a cop out and the last refuge of a poorly trained, poorly skilled or lazy physio in my opinion. Just my 2c.

Tunney - I completely agree with a lot of what you are saying, as that was my experience with physios & orthotics recommendations in the past. I actually had orthotics for 5/6 years previously without any improvement with my knee probs!!

However - the lab in Belgium actually discovered a 16mm difference in the length of my legs!! The scans they showed me, highlighted my pelvic bone was twisted completely forward & tilted because of this 16mm difference. They rectified this with a 4mm differential in the thickness of my 2 othotic insoles (dont ask me how this works). Anyway - whilst I agree that othotics are a cop-out in many situations (stretching/massage a better alternative) - in my case - it was essential to me resolving my problem.

Not only have my IT band problems disappeared - but - all the calf / thigh / hamstring problems have also stopped - due to the reduced stress on both legs.

I would encourage any runner to go to similar lengths to analyse their running motion / back scan / leg scan etc...

steoc

Geart Post.
I was just about to make an appointment to get fitteted myselk, i looked at the website in Belgium and was well impressed with their set up.
Would you please PM me the contact so as i can phone/email them for a meet up?

Thanks in advance

Steoc

DonVincenzo

steoc wrote: »

Geart Post.
I was just about to make an appointment to get fitteted myselk, i looked at the website in Belgium and was well impressed with their set up.
Would you please PM me the contact so as i can phone/email them for a meet up?

Thanks in advance

Steoc

Steoc - just PM'd you the details of the place in belgium. Best of luck with that.

I flew out & back on a Friday (Dub to Brussels) and they include a taxi pick up & drop off in the price.

Cheers
The Don

GardenerGirl

Hi. Could you PM me the details of the Guys in Belgium as well please. I am not a runner but I walk a lot and had major knee problems last year. Had months of physio and had orthotics made. But I now have pain in my lower back, knees and feet. The guy who sold me the orthotics is blaming my shoes (asics runners), so I really am done with him. I need to find someone who knows what they are doing.
Thanks a million.

steoc

Cheers The Don,

Just sent off an email,ill keep you informed.
Thanks.

yop

Wud appreciate updates for sure, went out last nite and knee "blew up" after 5km to such a state I could barely walk, has really ruined my training and events for a few weeks.

Can I ask from those with the same issue, when u rested and iced did it improve and roughly how long were you out?
I spent 6 days off with it there, taking neurofen for the inflammation and icing and heat packing. Haven't gone to a physio so that will be my next step as my movement is very restricted today.

Thanks

tunney

yop wrote: »

Wud appreciate updates for sure, went out last nite and knee "blew up" after 5km to such a state I could barely walk, has really ruined my training and events for a few weeks.

Can I ask from those with the same issue, when u rested and iced did it improve and roughly how long were you out?
I spent 6 days off with it there, taking neurofen for the inflammation and icing and heat packing. Haven't gone to a physio so that will be my next step as my movement is very restricted today.

Thanks

By and large physios are useless when it comes to treating ITBS. After a few trips doing nothing they'll throw "orthotics" out there.

Ice, quad streches, calf stretches, hamstring stretches, tfl release using a tennis ball and proper form are what helps get back running.

When I used to run i got it alot. Recovery ranged from 5 months to 5 days. All depends on how aggressively and competently you treat your ITB flare up.

entropi

Very good thread this, i like the outcome from the OP's visits to various avenues of treatment, and showing others that help can be sought for persistent problems that most runners will at some time come across:)

yop wrote: »

I spent 6 days off with it there, taking neurofen for the inflammation and icing and heat packing.

I got a little concerned when reading this as i'm training as a sports therapist myself right now...surely you dont use heat packs while taking an anti-inflammatory? That is just gonna make things worse as you could probably feel, inflammed areas are usually very warm and adding heat is just not good. I would advise you to not use heat packs until your course of medication is finished.

DonVincenzo

yop wrote: »

Wud appreciate updates for sure, went out last nite and knee "blew up" after 5km to such a state I could barely walk, has really ruined my training and events for a few weeks.

Can I ask from those with the same issue, when u rested and iced did it improve and roughly how long were you out?
I spent 6 days off with it there, taking neurofen for the inflammation and icing and heat packing. Haven't gone to a physio so that will be my next step as my movement is very restricted today.

Thanks

Hi Yop
There are some excellent vids for IT stretches on you tube. I also invested in a foam roller .....
http://www.irishfit.eu/massage.htm#grid

(click on the link for "The Grid")

I think this was a key part of my rehab - as effectively - its like doing a mini-physio session in your home every evening, for free!! Doing self massage / myofascial release therapy is very painful to begin with, but as over the last month, my IT band area has really settled down.

Hope this helps
The Don

yop

DonVincenzo wrote: »

Hi Yop
There are some excellent vids for IT stretches on you tube. I also invested in a foam roller .....
http://www.irishfit.eu/massage.htm#grid

(click on the link for "The Grid")

I think this was a key part of my rehab - as effectively - its like doing a mini-physio session in your home every evening, for free!! Doing self massage / myofascial release therapy is very painful to begin with, but as over the last month, my IT band area has really settled down.

Hope this helps
The Don

Thanks for that, I must have a look at that.
DEFINATELY need to look at strengthening/stretching but I have never had an injury like this so its new ground for me.

Master of Nothing - This may have been me thinking anti-inflammatories might help!
Also I thought that icing and heat pants alternatively would aid to get blood circulating. Lack of education on my side

entropi

yop wrote: »

Master of Nothing - This may have been me thinking anti-inflammatories might help!
Also I thought that icing and heat pants alternatively would aid to get blood circulating. Lack of education on my side

Oh alternating ice and heat on different days is a good thing, just that taking anti-inflammatory medication at the same time as heat treatment will not work as you are countering the good effects that it (heat packs/hot water bottle/electric blanket) can bring.

In basic terms, treatment with cold or ice (cryotherapy) and anti inflammatory drugs reduce heat and swelling, heat packs and those mentioned above (thermotherapy) can increase the swelling due to the greater heat increase and prolong injury.

yop

Ok, thanks for that. Best then to leave the heat packs and keep icing. I am treating it in the very slim hope I can make a duathlon next Saturday but I think at this stage I am way off the mark.
Thanks for all ur assistance

entropi

yop wrote: »

Ok, thanks for that. Best then to leave the heat packs and keep icing. I am treating it in the very slim hope I can make a duathlon next Saturday but I think at this stage I am way off the mark.
Thanks for all ur assistance

I wish you all the best with your goals, hopefully you'll be good to go for Saturday:) I would certainly advise a trip to a physio or sports therapist to help out the knee and ITB problems you've been having. I had work done in my sports massage classes on my ITB as i got alot of knee pain training for the DCM last October, sorted it right out:D

yop

Master of Nothing wrote: »

I wish you all the best with your goals, hopefully you'll be good to go for Saturday:) I would certainly advise a trip to a physio or sports therapist to help out the knee and ITB problems you've been having. I had work done in my sports massage classes on my ITB as i got alot of knee pain training for the DCM last October, sorted it right out:D

Thanks very much. Had the ice pack out all nite and day Rolling pin lined up now by the missus to inflict some massage
Been reading a good bit about the ITB and it makes loads of sense now.


Thanks again

entropi

yop wrote: »

Thanks very much. Had the ice pack out all nite and day Rolling pin lined up now by the missus to inflict some massage
Been reading a good bit about the ITB and it makes loads of sense now.


Thanks again

Anytime

Recommended icing times are: 20 mins on, 20 mins off, 20 mins on, up to 3 times a day incase you were wondering:)

tunney

Master of Nothing wrote: »

Anytime

Recommended icing times are: 20 mins on, 20 mins off, 20 mins on, up to 3 times a day incase you were wondering:)

But if the bursa under the band are inflammed you won't be running for a good few months.

Key with ITBS is to get treatment *before* inflammation

yop

tunney wrote: »

But if the bursa under the band are inflammed you won't be running for a good few months.

Key with ITBS is to get treatment *before* inflammation

So best to stretch and strenghten? I have checked out a few youtube vids and they suggest the rolling pin and the other stretches.

I hope to God its not a "few months"

yop

Folks
for those with ITB issues, when did you know it was "right" to go back running? Been out now since 22.03 and haven't done any running, still doesn't feel 100% even after doing the stretches and physio.

Did you go back running, do your stretching and that even though you got a little pain from it?

tunney

yop wrote: »

Folks
for those with ITB issues, when did you know it was "right" to go back running? Been out now since 22.03 and haven't done any running, still doesn't feel 100% even after doing the stretches and physio.

Did you go back running, do your stretching and that even though you got a little pain from it?

Once it took me six months, once 3 days.

You know when you know and if there is any pain then you're not right to run.

<INSERT USUAL GO TO A PROFESSIONAL>

yop

tunney wrote: »

Once it took me six months, once 3 days.

You know when you know and if there is any pain then you're not right to run.

<INSERT USUAL GO TO A PROFESSIONAL>

Cheers Tunney, ya I understand the professional thingy, got to the physio and had deep tissue work done on it but I am probably a little impatient now.

What did people find the best exercise for this?

Been using the 2 following exercises which pull the hell out of glutes
1) Lie on back, left leg (not injured) pulled up, right leg across, bent at knee, put my hands behind my left knee and pull forward.

2) Go on knee, put right leg flat on ground in front of left knee, lie out flat on elbows and extend the left leg out behind, again pulls the glutes.

is there anyone find 1 stretch better than the other.

How often were you doing these? Have only managed to get them done at night for about 3 goes on each.

tunney

yop wrote: »

Cheers Tunney, ya I understand the professional thingy, got to the physio and had deep tissue work done on it but I am probably a little impatient now.

What did people find the best exercise for this?

Been using the 2 following exercises which pull the hell out of glutes
1) Lie on back, left leg (not injured) pulled up, right leg across, bent at knee, put my hands behind my left knee and pull forward.

2) Go on knee, put right leg flat on ground in front of left knee, lie out flat on elbows and extend the left leg out behind, again pulls the glutes.

is there anyone find 1 stretch better than the other.

How often were you doing these? Have only managed to get them done at night for about 3 goes on each.

I always found the stretches useless. Releasing the TFL with a tennis ball was the best for me.

Foxx92

yop wrote: »

Folks
for those with ITB issues, when did you know it was "right" to go back running? Been out now since 22.03 and haven't done any running, still doesn't feel 100% even after doing the stretches and physio.

Did you go back running, do your stretching and that even though you got a little pain from it?

Im in a very similar position to you yop. Have been out for two months with my IT Band. After much rest and stretching I've began to get some running in. I'm only up to 5 miles at the moment but feeling much better after going to the physio and getting some strenghtining exercises and stretches.
Also similar to another poster here I have a small difference in leg lenght which effects my hip and glutes and knee so it has to be corrected some way or another.

yop

Thanks folks.

I must try the tennis ball one for sure, not been doing that.

Thanks Foxx92, hoping to get back to doing some light running next week.
Were the strenghening any similar to what I was doing

Foxx92

yop wrote: »

Thanks folks.

I must try the tennis ball one for sure, not been doing that.

Thanks Foxx92, hoping to get back to doing some light running next week.
Were the strenghening any similar to what I was doing

The ones you described were stretches from what I could gather. I do three different strenghtening exercises aimed at my hip/glutes area. One involves lying on you side with your thighs close to your body and knees bent, raising your knee and keeping feet toghther. Another one is just raising one leg vertiaclly while lying down.
To be honest I'd stick to what your physion recommends as you may have a very similar injury to me, but possibly due to different reasons.
I've started to get back into light running in the last couple of weeks and have seen a huge improvement. Hope you get a quick recovery from this.

Btw, how certain are you that it is ITB syndrome you are suffering from?

yop

Foxx92 wrote: »

The ones you described were stretches from what I could gather. I do three different strenghtening exercises aimed at my hip/glutes area. One involves lying on you side with your thighs close to your body and knees bent, raising your knee and keeping feet toghther. Another one is just raising one leg vertiaclly while lying down.
To be honest I'd stick to what your physion recommends as you may have a very similar injury to me, but possibly due to different reasons.
I've started to get back into light running in the last couple of weeks and have seen a huge improvement. Hope you get a quick recovery from this.

Btw, how certain are you that it is ITB syndrome you are suffering from?

Thanks for that, I must try that.

Physio and reading different forums points to the pain on the outside of the knee point towards it.

Hoping now to get there this week and get out for a short run next week