Reversing round the corner almost impossible in my car!

af_thefragile

As i've spoken about it a few times, I've recently got a Ford Puma.
Today I was trying to do the reversing round the corner maneuver in it and its pretty much impossible.

It doesn't have electric wing mirrors, so firstly I need to lean over and manually adjust them, I don't see how I'll be able to do this during the test.
Secondly the wing mirrors themselves are tiny and you really can't see much of the curb in them.
Third the rear window is tiny too and so the whole thing just comes down to guess work. Trying to guess how far the car is from the curb and hoping to not hit it.

So well, do any of you have any suggestions/tips as to how to reverse round a corner in a car with not much rear visibility?...

Thanks.

MascotDec85

I said to you last week the visibility would be poor out of the side rear windows in particular.

Can you use your ADI's car for the test?

af_thefragile

Well, it costs 100eur to do the test in his car and like this is the car I'ld be driving around so I'ld like to do the test in this one...

Its like when I was getting a car, I knew I wouldn't be getting another car for like the next 3-4 years and so I didn't want to be stuck with a boring Micra or Yaris for that long and I got myself sometime more interesting...

Its just reversing round the corner that's tricky cuz you can barely see the curb.
Rest all is fine and I find this much easier (and nicer) to drive than my instructor's car. Though the brakes, although new, are a little wooly and you've really got to press on them to make the car stop. But I should get used to the brakes soon...

MascotDec85

af_thefragile wrote: »

Well, it costs 100eur to do the test in his car and like this is the car I'ld be driving around so I'ld like to do the test in this one...

Its like when I was getting a car, I knew I wouldn't be getting another car for like the next 3-4 years and so I didn't want to be stuck with a boring Micra or Yaris for that long and I got myself sometime more interesting...

Its just reversing round the corner that's tricky cuz you can barely see the curb.
Rest all is fine and I find this much easier (and nicer) to drive than my instructor's car. Though the brakes, although new, are a little wooly and you've really got to press on them to make the car stop. But I should get used to the brakes soon...

It's really difficult to tell without sitting in the car and seeing the mirrors for myself. I never adjust my mirrors for the reverse. The way the are set for normal driving does me for the reverse and I can be guilty of using my mirrors a wee bit too much.
Try adjusting your mirrors so that you can barely see the end of the car on the inside corner of the mirror. This should ensure you are seeing as wide an angle as possible. Try not to have them set too high either. If you mess about with them you should find a happy medium. You are only getting used to a new car so stick with it.

As for the brakes, have you checked the brake fluid level, it might be low? Either that or you might need new brake pads

dudara

Well, it's not a new car, so the brakes, clutch etc aren't going to feel as sharp as a new car (unless they've been recently replaced).

In theory, you should be able to reverse the car without adjusting your mirrors downwards. I know that as a learner driver you'd like the assurance that comes from adjusting downwards. But try to learn the space your car occupies on the road using the standard mirror settings.

af_thefragile

Just got the car fully serviced, new brake discs and pads, I think its just how the Puma brakes are cuz the other Pumas I test drove before buying this one all had wooly brakes too. I think the only way to sort it out is by installing bigger brakes.
Which is probably why the later 1.6l model of the Puma came with bigger brake discs.

Anyway, its probably also that I've been expecting too much of the Puma. Its a 11yr old car. I've been used to driving my instructors 08 Corsa which I think has very sharp brakes. Like when you press the brakes the car comes to a stop with a jolt if you don't ease off the brakes just as the car comes to a stop. In the Puma, even if you step on the brakes fully, you never feel the car jolting to a stop.

Melia

Just practice it over and over. You'll find it easier when you get used to the car.

How do you do your reverse? My instructor had me try a new way in my last lesson, not relying on the wing mirrors much at all - take off the belt, put left arm on the back of the passenger seat, right hand on the wheel, turn around to face back. Look at where the kerb cuts the bottom of your rear window. Move off slowly, start turning when the kerb disappears. Have a good look out the windows and up the other road halfway through. When you're almost around the corner, keep going till the kerb cuts the bottom of the rear window in the same place, then straighten and keep it there.

I probably explained that really badly, but I find it much easier than just relying on the wing mirror.

My instructor didn't tell me to look at the wing mirrors that much at all. I was told to check my blindspot, then look over my left shoulder as I was reversing. Then as I was getting close to the curb, I was told to check behind my right shoulder. I've been following that method ever since and have never had a problem. The aim is to go slow and take your time. I doubt the instructor expects you to do any of this in great speed.

MascotDec85

Melia wrote: »

Just practice it over and over. You'll find it easier when you get used to the car.

How do you do your reverse? My instructor had me try a new way in my last lesson, not relying on the wing mirrors much at all - take off the belt, put left arm on the back of the passenger seat, right hand on the wheel, turn around to face back. Look at where the kerb cuts the bottom of your rear window. Move off slowly, start turning when the kerb disappears. Have a good look out the windows and up the other road halfway through. When you're almost around the corner, keep going till the kerb cuts the bottom of the rear window in the same place, then straighten and keep it there.

I probably explained that really badly, but I find it much easier than just relying on the wing mirror.

Using the reference point was how I was taught to reverse years ago, not a bad idea. You actually don't need to put your arm behind the passenger seat though.

If there's a car sticker on the rear screen look at which part of the sticker lines up with the kerb (mine was the E of HE-MAN Dual Controls). If you've no car sticker, sit in the car, look out the rear screen as though your were doing a reverse and ask someone to place a bit of tape on the glass in line with the kerb. Use that as your reference

Satyr_The_Great

I drive a BMW Z3 nd a 316. Reversing around the corner is easy in both of them. Just takes time to practice it,, Its actually easier in the Z3 i think.

Mint Sauce

my instructer has me using all mirrors and looking over both shoulders thoughout the entire procedure, no need to adjust the mirrors during the manouvre, if the mirrors are set when you first get into the car, should be no need to change again, i was advised to be just able to see my rear doors in the wing mirrors and have the top seal of the rear window in line with the top of the rear view mirror

as for undoing seat belt, and one arm over the passenger seat, thought this would have been a no no, with my first instucter i had one arm over the seat was told to keep both hands on the wheel so that i have full control

Melia

irish-stew wrote: »

As for undoing seat belt, and one arm over the passenger seat, thought this would have been a no no, with my first instucter i had one arm over the seat was told to keep both hands on the wheel so that i have full control

I did it in my test last month and got no faults for it. I think it's okay because you're going at such a slow speed.

Ostrom

Are you hitting the kerb or going wide?

This is what I was told -

Both instructors have taught me to do it without the wing mirrors (I was told adjusting would incur a mark).

Line up straight at the beginning of the turn and use your rear left passenger window to observe, you can also glance in the wing mirror if necessary to watch for the point at which the kerb disappears.

I do it by turning the moment I see the far side of the corner appear in the rear left passenger window. Take it slow, and get to know your alignment from the window.

When you clear the corner (if you cannot judge from the rear window, glance in the mirror for the kerb), straighten up, sight the kerb in your rear window, and use small adjustments to roll back.

I much prefer this way, as it gives you more freedom to observe around you rather than relying on the mirrors. I used to do it with the mirror all the way and it was very hit and miss, new instructor showed me this last Saturday and I haven't messed up since.

af_thefragile

Thanks for all the replies.
I'll try to do it without relying much on the side mirrors and trying to use reference points in my rear window and side windows...

Should take some practice but shouldn't be impossible!

HydeRoad

There is some very bad advice on this thread, the perils of taking advice from a public internet board.

First, do NOT put an arm across the passenger seat. What you do in your own time, after you pass your test, is going to be your own business. But for test purposes, taking one hand off the wheel, and putting one hand on the passenger seat, will be a mark against you. You are expected to keep both hands on the wheel except when changing gear. It means craning your neck more, but that is test requirement. Do not practice putting your hand on the passenger seat. Everything you do prior to your driving test should be to test standard, to drill the proper procedures into you.

Secondly, there is no pride in reversing around a corner without using mirrors. If anything, you should practice reversing using mirrors only. But either way, your mirrors are there for a purpose, and you use them at all times. I despair that there are instructors out there encouraging pupils not to use mirrors, and to position their hands, arms and body incorrectly. You are paying good money for lessons, and lessons are expensive. If this is the standard of instruction, go elsewhere and at least pay your money for proper instruction.

'Reference points' in rear and side windows is nonsense. Chances are your test corner will be an irregular corner, probably on a slight hill, and so your 'reference points' will be meaningless. The only reference point is where your inside back wheel is. Use your mirrors. Learn how to position your car parallel to the kerb accurately using mirrors, learn to keep the direct distance accurately using mirrors, and forget this nonsense about judging out through the back window, with no precise idea how far out you are. You can adjust your nearside mirror before reversing, for test purposes. Just make sure to readjust back. But preferably, you would practice enough that you don't need to adjust at all. Practice, practice, practice. No shortcuts. And remember, draping your arm across the passenger seat is almost guaranteed test fail. Totally and completely wrong.

MascotDec85

HydeRoad wrote: »

There is some very bad advice on this thread, the perils of taking advice from a public internet board.

First, do NOT put an arm across the passenger seat. What you do in your own time, after you pass your test, is going to be your own business. But for test purposes, taking one hand off the wheel, and putting one hand on the passenger seat, will be a mark against you. You are expected to keep both hands on the wheel except when changing gear. It means craning your neck more, but that is test requirement. Do not practice putting your hand on the passenger seat. Everything you do prior to your driving test should be to test standard, to drill the proper procedures into you.

Secondly, there is no pride in reversing around a corner without using mirrors. If anything, you should practice reversing using mirrors only. But either way, your mirrors are there for a purpose, and you use them at all times. I despair that there are instructors out there encouraging pupils not to use mirrors, and to position their hands, arms and body incorrectly. You are paying good money for lessons, and lessons are expensive. If this is the standard of instruction, go elsewhere and at least pay your money for proper instruction.

If that's in reference to my post it's a typo. It's something I never do or would teach. I've never understood why people do it. I use my mirrors loads too, comes from driving vans at work years ago.

HydeRoad

MascotDec85 wrote: »

If that's in reference to my post it's a typo. It's something I never do or would teach. I've never understood why people do it. I use my mirrors loads too, comes from driving vans at work years ago.

No, somebody posted that their instructor specifically advised putting the arm across the seat, and not using mirrors at all. Somehow I can't believe an instructor would actually teach such a thing, but it could be before the new ADI qualifications came in. I really believe such instructors should be pulled up for fundamentally wrong advice like that. Lessons are far too expensive.

HydeRoad

I had a pupil once who never mastered reversing around a corner after years of driving on a provisional. This one procedure failed them every time.

The problem is looking around for other traffic, and letting the car wander out of line. It then becomes difficult to correct, and panic takes over. The car ends up four or five feet out from where it should be. How do you look around, yet keep the car where you want it?

When reversing, your right foot is feathering either the brake or the accelerator, depending on the incline or decline of the corner. Your left foot is hovering over the clutch, perhaps slipping it if you are at crawling speed. You are looking over your shoulder, and watching your nearside mirror to position the inside rear wheel correctly.

The moment you look away over your other shoulder, or in front, to check for pedestrians or other traffic, is the critical moment when you lose control. You must maintain control. You can do this by depressing the clutch pedal and possibly dabbing the brake, to remove torque and slow the car slightly (NOT stopping) as you look away from your line of travel. This is only a quick glance around, and immediately you return to the rear view mirror, your left foot comes back up on the clutch gently, and progress is restored.

All of this happens in a split second. With practice, you learn to clutch and slow very briefly as you look around, and then resume smooth progress as soon as you are watching where you are going again. Thus, speed is kept in check, the car is kept under control, and you don't let the car run away into the middle of nowhere while looking around for hazards.

Melia

HydeRoad wrote: »

No, somebody posted that their instructor specifically advised putting the arm across the seat, and not using mirrors at all. Somehow I can't believe an instructor would actually teach such a thing, but it could be before the new ADI qualifications came in. I really believe such instructors should be pulled up for fundamentally wrong advice like that. Lessons are far too expensive.

That would be me! Fair enough if it's wrong, it's just what he showed me because I was finding it difficult. He didn't say not to use the mirrors at all, but certainly not much. He's an ADI, and this was a month ago.

I didn't get marked for it in my test, but I'll avoid it in future.

Midnight_EG

Not to discredit anyone or anything, but during my test I had one hand on the passenger seat and leaning over. When I finished the maneuver the tester said it was the best example of that maneuver he'd seen (I got within a cm of the kerb and done it very precisely in due time) and couldn't fault a thing. After the test I actually asked him about it, and said nothing I did was wrong?

Alanstrainor

lukecoleman, banned for a week. There is absolutely no need for that.

brian076

HydeRoad wrote: »

There is some very bad advice on this thread, the perils of taking advice from a public internet board.

First, do NOT put an arm across the passenger seat. No shortcuts. And remember, draping your arm across the passenger seat is almost guaranteed test fail. Totally and completely wrong.

I hope you're not an ADI. This advice is total rubbish, there is no problem using one hand to complete the reverse manoeuvre, and if you feel more comfortable draping your hand across the passanger seat, that's absolutely no problem.

2010

brian076 wrote: »

I hope you're not an ADI. This advice is total rubbish, there is no problem using one hand to complete the reverse manoeuvre, and if you feel more comfortable draping your hand across the passanger seat, that's absolutely no problem.

I second that Brian I couldnt believe some of the advice that was giving.
Firstly if you need to stop during the reverse to look to the right that's perfectly acceptable .. some people can do it without stopping that's fine as well.
And you definitely wont get marked putting your hand across the back of the passenger seat..one hand to complete the reverse manoeuvre is perfectly acceptable...

af_thefragile

Wait, so can I or can I not put my arm on the passenger seat to look back and steer with one hand?...

I don't remember if I put my arm on the passenger seat while looking back. Actually, no I didn't. But I still used one hand to steer the car to bring it back in line with the curb cuz I had steered too wide of the curb initially during my test. I got one grade 1 fault for competency while reversing in the test. But I don't think I got that fault for using one arm to get the car in line with the curb. I think I got that fault cuz I had gone wide off the curb.

Well, I didn't get to practice it yesterday but I'll try to get some practice tomorrow and see how it goes...

brian076

af_thefragile wrote: »

Wait, so can I or can I not put my arm on the passenger seat to look back and steer with one hand?...

I don't remember if I put my arm on the passenger seat while looking back. Actually, no I didn't. But I still used one hand to steer the car to bring it back in line with the curb cuz I had steered too wide of the curb initially during my test. I got one grade 1 fault for competency while reversing in the test. But I don't think I got that fault for using one arm to get the car in line with the curb. I think I got that fault cuz I had gone wide off the curb.

Well, I didn't get to practice it yesterday but I'll try to get some practice tomorrow and see how it goes...

Yes you definitely can use one hand, and if you feel comfortable draping it behind the passanger seat that's fine also.
One other thing, if your mirrors are very small, have you tried the small round blind spot mirrors that you can buy in a motor factors. These should help to give you a better view of the kerb.

af_thefragile

brian076 wrote: »

Yes you definitely can use one hand, and if you feel comfortable draping it behind the passanger seat that's fine also.
One other thing, if your mirrors are very small, have you tried the small round blind spot mirrors that you can buy in a motor factors. These should help to give you a better view of the kerb.

I'll try and see how I manage with what i've already got. If it still feels impossible, I might get those mirrors and see if they make any difference...