The Catholic Church and the Zodiac

the_dark_side

just reading up on why the Catholic Church forbid, or refuse to acknowledge astrological symbolism, and things related to the Zodiac, particularly when it seems to be en-grained into its doctrine. I became interested in this after hearing a caller to the Joe Duffy show, complaining that the local church was not in favor of allowing two 16 year old pupils at a local secondary school of putting on a magic show, as part of a church fund raising event. On further investigation, I found that the church are 'against magic', then I also find that they are not in favor of anything related to the Zodiac....
by the way, I don't mean to be raising anyones hackles here

Here is an interesting article

http://www.druidschool.com/site/1030100/page/923834

homer911

Are you saying the Catholic Church can't tell the difference between conjuring tricks/slight of hand and Magic/Witchcraft?

the_dark_side

I am saying 2 things... firstly, the priest that was against the magic show got it wrong... he did seem to tar everything that was under the heading of 'magic', with the one brush, and it was an example of how the rules of the church were being adhered to, to an extremity.

This made me think of the church's view on all such matters, and I do recall hearing many years ago, that the church was very much against the practice of Tarot, and Astrology as a means of looking into the future.... now I realize that it maybe because the signs of the Zodiac are very close to the bone for the church, in terms of how they are referenced to and what they actually symbolize in the bible. Yes, I am referring to the section on religion in the film Zeitgeist, and the occurrence of precession where the earth moves to face a new constellation every so many thousand of years.

How long it has taken people to find out this, through freedom of information, it is now possible to uncloak the metaphors that we used to hear each Sunday, and know their origin

Soul Winner

"The heavens declare the glory of God..." Psalm 19:1


"The Son is the radiance of God's glory..." Hebrews 1:3

If Jesus is the radiance or out-raying of the glory of God, and the heavens declare this glory, then the heavens declare Jesus. Starting with Virgo the Virgin and ending with Leo the conquering Lion of the tribe of Judah. One only needs learn the names of the stars in each of the constellations to find out who they are talking about. Jesus!!!

Good books on the subject are as follows:

The Gospel in Stars by Joseph A Seiss
The Witness in the Stars by E W Bullinger
God's voice in the Stars by Kenneth C Flemming
Glory of the Stars by E Raymond Capt

To name but a few...

Astrology is nothing but Satan's counterfeit to God's revelation. This subject has been so caricatured by Satan over the centuries and millennia that most of the Church world is turned off on it completely. What a tragedy that is. Give Satan credit he does his work well.

the_dark_side

Soul Winner wrote: »

Astrology is nothing but Satan's counterfeit to God's revelation. This subject has been so caricatured by Satan over the centuries and millennia that most of the Church world is turned off on it completely. What a tragedy that is. Give Satan credit he does his work well.

Im sorry but I don't follow your point here. Are you suggesting that 'satan' named each constellation thousands of years ago? How do you mean tragedy, in what context? and no, I'm not satans' little helper either, in fact I don't believe there is such a thing

Splendour

the_dark_side wrote: »

just reading up on why the Catholic Church forbid, or refuse to acknowledge astrological symbolism, and things related to the Zodiac, particularly when it seems to be en-grained into its doctrine. I became interested in this after hearing a caller to the Joe Duffy show, complaining that the local church was not in favor of allowing two 16 year old pupils at a local secondary school of putting on a magic show, as part of a church fund raising event. On further investigation, I found that the church are 'against magic', then I also find that they are not in favor of anything related to the Zodiac....
by the way, I don't mean to be raising anyones hackles here

Here is an interesting article

http://www.druidschool.com/site/1030100/page/923834

It's not just Catholicism but all Christianity that is against anything related to the Zodiac as this is seen as trusting something other than God.
I agree with homer911 that there is a huge difference between real magic and the magic/sleight of hand shows which are purely for entertainment.

PDN

the_dark_side wrote: »

Im sorry but I don't follow your point here. Are you suggesting that 'satan' named each constellation thousands of years ago? How do you mean tragedy, in what context? and no, I'm not satans' little helper either, in fact I don't believe there is such a thing

No, he's suggesting that God inspired men to name the constellations thousands of years ago, and that Satan has perverted this to produce astrology (the notion that such things can be used for fortune telling). That, if Soulwinner was correct, would be a tragedy in that people were being misled.

Nobody said anything remotely like you being Satan's little helper. A tad over-sensitive perhaps?

Soul Winner

the_dark_side wrote: »

Im sorry but I don't follow your point here. Are you suggesting that 'satan' named each constellation thousands of years ago? How do you mean tragedy, in what context? and no, I'm not satans' little helper either, in fact I don't believe there is such a thing

What PDN said suffices as an adequate reply. I wasn't making reference to anybody's use of astrology as being the work of the devil. My point was that the true message in the constellations has been caricatured and twisted over past millenia so much that the church has been robbed of the astonishing truth of God's control over all things including the heavenly hosts in order that Christ might get the glory. Satan has used the mythology of many ancient cultures over the centuries to stamp his own signature onto these signs and has corrupted their original meanings. The most ancient zodiacs start out with Virgo and end in Leo but today we start with Aquarius and end with Capricorn, that's typical Satan twisting things just enough in order to take the focus away from what these signs teach.

Most of the signs represent the two natures of Christ, God and Man. The Centaur in Sagittarius is the best example of this. The man portion of his body represent God and the horse portion represent man. The names of the stars in these constellations provide support for the general meaning of each of them. Capricorn is the sign of a dying goat and living fish. In order to get the multitude of fish there must be death. The names of the stars in this constellation spell this out very clearly and yet nobody really knows how they got these names. Even astronomers today don't really know how most of the well known stars got their names or what they mean in the most ancient of tongues. But we have the book of Job in the Bible, one of the oldest books in the world, naming these constelations and having even God mentioning some of them by name Himself.

"Which maketh Arcturus, Orion, and Pleiades, and the chambers of the south." Job 9:9

"Can you bind the beautiful Pleiades? Can you loose the cords of Orion?" Job 38:31

And

"He who made the Pleiades and Orion, who turns blackness into dawn and darkens day into night, who calls for the waters of the sea and pours them out over the face of the land— the LORD is his name." Amos 5:8

The books I referenced earlier go into the star names in great detail and it is mind blowing that the church world on the whole has neglected the teaching of these great and wondrous truths. It saddens me that as soon as people start referring to these signs as coming from God they immediately raise the red flag and nod their heads. Like I said Satan has done such a great job over the centuries by slowly twisting the meanings of these signs that Christianity in general will not touch the subject with a barge pole.

I believe that this is what Paul was reffering to in the early chapters of Romans:

"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the "glory" of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things." Romans 1: 18-23

Taken in isolation these signs venerate mythical God's and Goddesses but taken all together they tell the story of Jesus starting with His virgin birth, through His suffering death and resurrection to His coming again as the conquering role as Leo the Lion. For the most part God does not get the glory when this subject is discussed because man for the most part has decided that he does not want to retain God in his knowledge.

"And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient" Romans 1:28

I could be wrong about what Paul was referring to in these verses but I'm totally convinced about the Gospel message been written in the stars. The sign name meanings and star name meanings have too many similarities with what we already know about Jesus from the Bible to be sheer coincidence. I don't buy that for one second.

the_dark_side

you have a way better informed opinion on this than I do, this has only been a thought that has occurred me recently. I struggle to believe that there is such a thing as satan, my reference to being his 'helper' was made in jest, as I guessed that you would be blaming the devil for corrupting my opinion on the subject
Back to my original point about the church vs magic, I saw an interesting program on Catholicism in Rio de Janeiro where there exists a religion which is a blend of Voodoo and Catholicism, a similar religion is practiced in the Caribbean and in New Orleans, influenced by African culture over the years.

PDN

the_dark_side wrote: »

you have a way better informed opinion on this than I do, this has only been a thought that has occurred me recently. I struggle to believe that there is such a thing as satan, my reference to being his 'helper' was made in jest, as I guessed that you would be blaming the devil for corrupting my opinion on the subject
Back to my original point about the church vs magic, I saw an interesting program on Catholicism in Rio de Janeiro where there exists a religion which is a blend of Voodoo and Catholicism, a similar religion is practiced in the Caribbean and in New Orleans, influenced by African culture over the years.

Santeria - always good for subject matter for episodes of CSI or Law & Order.

strobe

PDN wrote: »

Santeria - always good for subject matter for episodes of CSI or Law & Order.

Good for inspiration for kick ass mid 90's rock songs too....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrLJ6Saq7u4

Soul Winner

the_dark_side wrote: »

you have a way better informed opinion on this than I do,

I just read the books. Its all there to be found out. It just has a loony label which is why people stay away from the subject. It is a true saying, never throw the baby out with the bath water.

the_dark_side wrote: »

this has only been a thought that has occurred me recently. I struggle to believe that there is such a thing as satan,

Try following Jesus and living a life of faith in God and Satan's presence will become very real to you believe me. The reason he doesn't bother most people is because they are not doing anything to disturb his dominion over them. Following God's way for your life will disturb Satan and his minions and they will make themselves known as soon as you make that cold turkey decision to trust God with your life. This is the only real freedom we have, the freedom to choose masters. As long as we are not choosing God's ways for our lives then we are stuck in the prison of the prince of the power of the air, you're belief in that is not the determining factor for its truth. It's true independent of any body's belief in it. The prison guards do not disturb prisoners who in there place, but watch how animated the guards and their dogs get when one of prisoners attempts to escape, it is the same thing when you take that leap of faith and trust God's direction for your life, Satan goes on the war path.

the_dark_side wrote: »

Back to my original point about the church vs magic, I saw an interesting program on Catholicism in Rio de Janeiro where there exists a religion which is a blend of Voodoo and Catholicism, a similar religion is practiced in the Caribbean and in New Orleans, influenced by African culture over the years.

I'm sorry I dragged this post off the rails a bit form your original point. I think the Church as a whole should stop being so hung up about things that it shouldn't be practicing and just focus on what it should be practicing and keeping the focus there. If we kept the focus of attention on what we are supposed to be doing daily in our lives i.e. trusting God and daily committing ourselves to Him, we won't have time to be hung up on trying not to practice that other stuff. This again is a very shrewd tactic of Satan. Keep you form doing what you're supposed to be doing by having you think you're a great saint because you're active in condemning things your shouldn't be practicing. We should give Satan more credit than we do and should be more aware of how he operates and hence be better shielded from his fiery darts. He's always in the background, rarely will he makes his presence known to those who are already happy on their way to that bad place. Why should he waste his resources doing that? But he is very active in attempts to thwart God's purposes for our lives and to those who feel the impact of this daily onslaught he makes no secret of his existence by reason of the intense focal attention of his attack on our faith in God.