Anglo get another €10 billion of your money.

FlashGordon1969

This is an interesting piece by David Mcwilliams-particularly the part where he highlights that ANGLO has secretly received another 10 billion of your money in exchange for collateral of only 750 million.

on this site we have constant references to Public servants we cant afford-public pay levels we cant afford but yet the central bank can loan out €10 billion?? Don't get me wrong, I accept that we had to reduce expenditure but one wonders how a state that we are 'reliably informed' is nearly bankrupt, can afford to do this?

Why was this not headline news ? Why is it we have a plethora of petty anti public sector threads yet this largely escapes attention? This is the second article in March he has written about it-but I bet you haven't heard about it?

http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2010/03/14/outsiders-pay-for-insider-greed

Biggins

I don't know whats more stupid - giving them more money or the government thinking they could keep it quiet!
Amazing is all this stuff that is by coincidence coming out while the gov' is off on nice holidays! :rolleyes:

FlashGordon1969

Creating a new viable bank was always my preferred option. We all know either one or both of two main banks are heading for nationalisation. Either that or the branch networks will be sold. But one really wonders why I should take a pay cut while this sort of shenanigans goes on?

yoshytoshy

Why don't the government change anglo into an internet bank ,sell all the buildings off.
Keep as many staff as they can and put them into, one of the new empty office buildings around dublin.

DrunkenMinister

All viable accounts should be saved, new banks invited into Ireland with incentives such as taking over the branch networks of AIB & BOI, and these latter two, with Anglo, should be sunk.

All their remaining 'assets' (the stuff they'll have to seize from their debt. defaulters) should be made public property in lieu of the money that has already been stolen from us for them.
(we're subsidising private lending institutions for the money we're to borrow from them with exhorbitant interest charged by them !!!)

Close your accounts with these banks, folks.
Try Rabbo, or anyone else...

Liam Byrne

I nearly keeled over at the weekend when I spotted an ad for Anglo in one of the Sunday papers looking for domestic / home depositors

DrunkenMinister

Apparently they're all desperate for positive accounts at the moment.

One of the reasons that the Postbank thing is to be closed - they were doing too well.

johngalway

Well sure, why not, I mean don't they deserve it.

What's the point of this country again?

Liam Byrne

DrunkenMinister wrote: »

One of the reasons that the Postbank thing is to be closed - they were doing too well.

Any links to back this up ?

Overheal

Well the govt knows it can get away with something. Clearly they have no fear of the people they govern.

FlashGordon1969

Overheal wrote: »

Well the govt knows it can get away with something. Clearly they have no fear of the people they govern.

Seemingly so. Yet-Union/government talks was main item in papers last weekend . Not saying industrial peace is not vital but savings through reform will be a drop in the ocean compared to this mess.

We badly need an Election. At least then those who caused the mess will be out of office.

P. Breathnach

FlashGordon1969 wrote: »

This is an interesting piece by David Mcwilliams-particularly the part where he highlights that ANGLO has secretly received another 10 billion of your money in exchange for collateral of only 750 million...

How was the value of this collateral calculated?

mike65

So thats where the money for the 24 hr Air-Sea rescue service went.

Shea O'Meara

FlashGordon1969 wrote: »

Seemingly so. Yet-Union/government talks was main item in papers last weekend . Not saying industrial peace is not vital but savings through reform will be a drop in the ocean compared to this mess.

We badly need an Election. At least then those who caused the mess will be out of office.

Haven't you heard? It's welfare fraudsters have us in the jam we are in!:D

anymore

FlashGordon1969 wrote: »

This is an interesting piece by David Mcwilliams-particularly the part where he highlights that ANGLO has secretly received another 10 billion of your money in exchange for collateral of only 750 million.

on this site we have constant references to Public servants we cant afford-public pay levels we cant afford but yet the central bank can loan out €10 billion?? Don't get me wrong, I accept that we had to reduce expenditure but one wonders how a state that we are 'reliably informed' is nearly bankrupt, can afford to do this?

Why was this not headline news ? Why is it we have a plethora of petty anti public sector threads yet this largely escapes attention? This is the second article in March he has written about it-but I bet you haven't heard about it?

http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2010/03/14/outsiders-pay-for-insider-greed

I agree with McWilliams but have to say Petty anti public sector threads ?
My kid is on his sixth parent teacher meeting half day of the school year ! Well half day is inaccurate ,we have to collect him at 11.00 am. They had only five PTM 'half days' last year ?

goose2005

P. Breathnach wrote: »

How was the value of this collateral calculated?

Picking numbers at random out of a bag, i'd say.

Laminations

P. Breathnach wrote: »

How was the value of this collateral calculated?

Read McWilliams article and you'd find out?

The CB gave Anglo €10 billion in return for collateral (loans of €14.5 billion). This is a ~30% discount. McWilliams gives an example of one loan used to purchase land in Shankhill, where the land now has dropped in value to an 'optimistic' 5% of its previous worth. McWilliams is applying this discount rate (95%) to value the collateral so the €14.5 billion becomes €750 million. Its not at all accurate as all loans would not have dropped by 95%. However it still highlights the grossly inappropriately low discount of only 30%. Its the whole problem with NAMA, prices have to rise considerably for the tax payer to break even.

P. Breathnach

Laminations wrote: »

Read McWilliams article and you'd find out?

The CB gave Anglo €10 billion in return for collateral (loans of €14.5 billion). This is a ~30% discount. McWilliams gives an example of one loan used to purchase land in Shankhill, where the land now has dropped in value to an 'optimistic' 5% of its previous worth. McWilliams is applying this discount rate (95%) to value the collateral so the €14.5 billion becomes €750 million. Its not at all accurate as all loans would not have dropped by 95%. However it still highlights the grossly inappropriately low discount of only 30%. Its the whole problem with NAMA, prices have to rise considerably for the tax payer to break even.

I read it, and my question was a rhetorically-phrased challenge. One could just as well pick one instance of a loan where the collateral is wholly adequate to secure the loan, and extrapolate from that.

Laminations

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I read it, and my question was a rhetorically-phrased challenge. One could just as well pick one instance of a loan where the collateral is wholly adequate to secure the loan, and extrapolate from that.

Ah ok, I did not recognise the rhetorical nature of the question One could do exactly that, the question is, neither being an accurate way to determine the value of an entire loan portfolio, which is more accurate? Is this 30% discount realistic of property prices now and where they are likely to be in 5 or 10 years?

The answer? well I'm sure if when NAMA fails, FF will wheel out the old excuses of 'nobody could foretell the future' and 'at least we were doing something' and 'we couldn't very well let the banking system collapse'.

FlashGordon1969

anymore wrote: »

I agree with McWilliams but have to say Petty anti public sector threads ?
My kid is on his sixth parent teacher meeting half day of the school year ! Well half day is inaccurate ,we have to collect him at 11.00 am. They had only five PTM 'half days' last year ?

In fairness,while I sympathise with your son's loss of education -could you imagine how the lives of all our children's education and health services could be helped by this money? I dont think its all lost ,but I think you could safely say what will be lost ,would be more than was taken from public servants.
However, I cant help but state this fact. As a secondary school teacher, I agreed to work in the evenings for extra pay. Try calling a doctor or any office after 5 and see what response you get. Solicitor after 6? The money, I got for this change has now been taken away without my agreement so until some deal is done in talks-you wont catch me at a parent teacher meeting that starts after 4pm. Our meetings often didn't finish until half seven and you try seeing 70 parents with myriad problems and then tell me how easy it is!
That being said I dont expect pay cuts to be reversed and would be willing to offer eve work but only until I know shape of overall deal.