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Sci-Fi on tv...what has gone wrong?

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  • 14-03-2010 1:34pm
    #1
    Richard Dower
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,634 ✭✭✭✭


    The glory days seem over for the most part, there used to be a multitude of quality Sc-fi shows on tv, but these days it seems more and more shows are not getting picked up or axed after one season.

    Consider the current season, Flash Forward/V/Caprica and SGU all in danger of cancellation this year!....numerous pilots also axed (Viturality etc.)

    What is going on?...who are to blame?, is it just poor scripting and basic premise or does the viewer appetite for Sci-fi no longer exist?


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    #2
    L31mr0d
    Registered Users Posts: 8,067 ✭✭✭L31mr0d


    I think the genre is jaded. It suffers from trying to build on the shoulders of giants. Even relatively good Sci-fi like Fringe can't help but appear hackneyed next to the X-Files.

    Virtuality was the first sci-fi in a long while for me that showed promise because it looked set to deal with the psychology of space travel. The writing wasn't really polished and the acting needed work, but it was only the pilot. I would of liked to of seen at least a season of it to see how it progressed.

    Then there's Jericho. I grit my teeth every time I think of that show getting cancelled. It had so much scope and room to grow, with a fairly competent cast and script.

    I think the issue atm is the bottom line, it costs more to make a space Sci-fi, and the networks probably think "why bother" when they can just churn out another hospital drama or reality TV show for next to nothing.


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    #3
    Hank_Jones
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,783 ✭✭✭Hank_Jones


    Personally I think sci-fi shows now just don't have the same interesting storylines and characters (or even actors) as they used to.

    Sci-fi shows now rely too much on special effects and just don't seem to have the same sort of character development as they previously did.
    It could be that there just too many shows being produced,
    so where previously there were only a small number of sci-fi shows,
    now there are quite a few so the numberof good sci-fi writers per show has possibly become more limited.


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    #4
    Tristram
    Registered Users Posts: 3,589 ✭✭✭Tristram


    When was this golden period you speak of?

    :confused:


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    #5
    Conor108
    Registered Users Posts: 3,871 ✭✭✭Conor108


    SGU has already been renewed! Filming on the 2nd season started the other day! And the rest of season 1 looks QUALITY!:eek::eek:




    Hoping Caprica gets renewed aswell....


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    #6
    L31mr0d
    Registered Users Posts: 8,067 ✭✭✭L31mr0d


    Tristram wrote: »
    When was this golden period you speak of?

    :confused:

    The 90's. The Star Treks, Babylon 5, The X-Files and Buffy.


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    #7
    Tristram
    Registered Users Posts: 3,589 ✭✭✭Tristram


    L31mr0d wrote: »
    The 90's. The Star Treks, Babylon 5, The X-Files and Buffy.

    The 00's. FarScape, Firefly, BSG... ?

    edit: Buffy was sci-fi?


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    #8
    Hank_Jones
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,783 ✭✭✭Hank_Jones


    Personally I think that it was during the mid -late 80's and the 90's.

    Star Trek:The Next Generation, Sliders, Star Trek:Voyager, Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, Stargate SG1 in it's prime, X-Files, Quantum Leap, even The Outer Limits.

    Of course there are shows that came after which are good.
    I just felt that this has been the best time for sci-fi, certainly in my life time.
    Might have something to do with the fact that I was growing up watching it though.


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    #9
    rolion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,362 ✭✭✭rolion


    I have to agree with you...don't forget SG Atlantis ! SG Universe,don't really get it.

    We watch here with the kids and they look that are really enjoying it.What is nice is watching twice same episode and looking at the things in a different way,maybe better understand them...


    Hank_Jones wrote: »
    Personally I think that it was during the mid -late 80's and the 90's.

    Star Trek:The Next Generation, Sliders, Star Trek:Voyager, Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, Stargate SG1 in it's prime, X-Files, Quantum Leap, even The Outer Limits.

    Of course there are shows that came after which are good.
    I just felt that this has been the best time for sci-fi, certainly in my life time.
    Might have something to do with the fact that I was growing up watching it though.


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    #10
    bonerm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,595 ✭✭✭bonerm


    Can't speak for the others but (only 4 eps in and) "V" is alreadybeing killed by the romantic teen-subplot that they've decided to put in there for some reason. I guess it worked on their test audiences but I predict it'll be the key factor in ensuring the show never makes it to season2.


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    #11
    L31mr0d
    Registered Users Posts: 8,067 ✭✭✭L31mr0d


    Tristram wrote: »
    The 00's. FarScape, Firefly, BSG... ?

    Okay, well Buffy is more fantasy than Sci-fi, even still.

    00's
    Farscape: 4 Seasons
    Firefly: 1 Season
    BSG: 4 Seasons

    Total: 9 Seasons

    90's
    Star Trek - (TNG, DS9, Voyager): 21 Seasons
    X-Files: 9 Seasons
    Babylon 5: 5 Seasons

    Total: 35 Seasons


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    #12
    Richard Dower
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,634 ✭✭✭✭Richard Dower


    Defying Gravity - axed, showed potential. T:TSCC, Dollhouse...list goes on.


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    #13
    Mr E
    Registered Users Posts: 55,483 ✭✭✭✭Mr E


    TV Exec 1: "We have 2 shows to pitch. One is a really edgy sci-fi show that will get us a couple of million viewers, after a few seasons it might build up to something huge, it will cost a fortune to make due to the special effects, and will be mainly watched by men under 35. Or we have a cookie-cutter cop/medical show that will be watched by millions across all demographics, can be syndicated world-wide and make us a bloody fortune in syndication and DVD sales for years to come."

    TV Exec 2: "Ummm....."


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    #14
    ixoy
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 17,990 Mod ✭✭✭✭ixoy


    Richard Dower wrote: »
    Consider the current season, Flash Forward/V/Caprica and SGU all in danger of cancellation this year!....numerous pilots also axed (Viturality etc.)
    'Stargate: Universe' has been greenlit for a second season. 'V' hasn't aired nearly enough episodes for any decision to be made either.
    What is going on?...who are to blame?, is it just poor scripting and basic premise or does the viewer appetite for Sci-fi no longer exist?
    'Flash Forward' has a good premise, poorly executed. I also think people over-analyse it as there's rarely been a time when there's multiple good sci-fi shows on, mostly just one or two in a particular era.
    L31mr0d wrote: »
    I think the genre is jaded. It suffers from trying to build on the shoulders of giants. Even relatively good Sci-fi like Fringe can't help but appear hackneyed next to the X-Files.
    That's true - it's difficult to get a unique premise. 'Fringe' differentiates itself quite a lot in its arc storylines but the "monster-of-the-week" stuff does seem too reminescent of "The X-Files". You can see similar patterns elsewhere, but that's much the same with most TV where there are a limited number of premises.
    Then there's Jericho. I grit my teeth every time I think of that show getting cancelled. It had so much scope and room to grow, with a fairly competent cast and script.
    See I thought 'Jericho' was awful and had to eventually give up on it - the script and characters being paper thin and clichéd... Each to their own but if I didn't like it chances are others didn't and the number of sci-fi fans who'd watch it dropped below that critical threshold.
    I think the issue atm is the bottom line, it costs more to make a space Sci-fi, and the networks probably think "why bother" when they can just churn out another hospital drama or reality TV show for next to nothing.
    There's that - it's important. Even the sci-fi we do have is generally contemporary so as to reduce budget - think of "Lost", "Warehouse 13", "Eureka", "Smallville", "Sanctuary", etc. It enables them to cut down on costs (and sometimes imagination!) by using existing cultures, people, settings and just throwing on a layer of sci-fi on top.

    Hank_Jones wrote: »
    Personally I think sci-fi shows now just don't have the same interesting storylines and characters (or even actors) as they used to.

    Sci-fi shows now rely too much on special effects and just don't seem to have the same sort of character development as they previously did.
    Just curious - what sci-fi shows are you speaking of with good characters and storylines? Babylon 5 immediately springs to mind but what others? I mean "The X-Files" had good stories but I never thought characterisation was a strong point. "Stargate: SG-1" had good characters and decent storylines. There's a host of failures in there though too, or those that never had an impact - "Wild Palms", "VR.5", "Total Recall 2025", etc.


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    #15
    ixoy
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 17,990 Mod ✭✭✭✭ixoy


    L31mr0d wrote: »
    00's
    Farscape: 4 Seasons
    Good example.Firefly: 1 Season
    BSG: 4 Seasons

    Total: 9 Seasons
    I'd throw in 'Stargate: SG-1' into that mix as well to bulk it up by ten.

    Star Trek - (TNG, DS9, Voyager): 21 Seasons
    I would never consider 'Voyager' good sci-fi. Ever. Sure just throw 'Andromeda' in in that case... Also TNG was equally an '80s show and 'Voyager' trailed into the '00s.
    X-Files: 9 Seasons
    It may have been 9 seasons but I wouldn't consider them all good - it tapered off after 6. It's often held as a text book example of how to keep going on when you should quit.
    Babylon 5: 5 Seasons
    This just rocked.


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    #16
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    When I was Richards age (14) we had nothing but Blakes 7 and Dr Who :(


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    #17
    Richard Dower
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,634 ✭✭✭✭Richard Dower


    ^ hold on...Voyager excelled when Jeri ryan joined, her and the doctor were the best part of the show. You can't fault all The Borg related episodes. "Drone"....fantastic episode, alot of the Borg two parters were amazing.


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    #18
    Richard Dower
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,634 ✭✭✭✭Richard Dower


    mike65 wrote: »
    When I was Richards age (14) we had nothing but Blakes 7 and Dr Who :(

    Smart arse :mad: ...i watched Blake's 7 on the beeb each week.


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    #19
    Sir Digby Chicken Caesar
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,556 ✭✭✭✭Sir Digby Chicken Caesar


    no they weren't, not in the slightest. Voyager ruined the borg as a star trek enemy. I'd be more scared of tribbles at this stage.


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    #20
    ixoy
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 17,990 Mod ✭✭✭✭ixoy


    Richard Dower wrote: »
    ^ hold on...Voyager excelled when Jeri ryan joined, her and the doctor were the best part of the show. You can't fault all The Borg related episodes. "Drone"....fantastic episode, alot of the Borg two parters were amazing.
    It most certainly was not. I hold 'Voyager' responsible for utterly destroying the Borg menace that TNG built up. I mean Borg children? Seriously? Utter muck.


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    #21
    Richard Dower
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,634 ✭✭✭✭Richard Dower


    ^ well i liked them, and the fact we got more backstory on the Borg.


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    #22
    Hank_Jones
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,783 ✭✭✭Hank_Jones


    ixoy wrote: »
    Just curious - what sci-fi shows are you speaking of with good characters and storylines? Babylon 5 immediately springs to mind but what others? I mean "The X-Files" had good stories but I never thought characterisation was a strong point. "Stargate: SG-1" had good characters and decent storylines. There's a host of failures in there though too, or those that never had an impact - "Wild Palms", "VR.5", "Total Recall 2025", etc.

    I felt that the character development in the Star Trek shows was quite good. Data, Picard, Worf, even Wesley Crusher all developed as characters during The Next Generation. Sliders had as much character development as was possible with the fact that they were basically in one world every episode and things started over each episode (somewhat). SG1 certainly had some good character development, Teal'c was always different from the others but still trying to adapt himself to a human way of life. And relationships developed between all the characters, they became close.

    Deep Space Nine had the father/son dynamic as well as a lot of other well developed characters such as Kira and Odo. Voyager had somewhat the same kind of development as The Next Generation.


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    #23
    Richard Dower
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,634 ✭✭✭✭Richard Dower


    Maybe they could reboot Star Trek, but teenie-fy it: Star Trek Academy.....group of trainee cadets going through the paces, might be a hit!


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    #24
    L31mr0d
    Registered Users Posts: 8,067 ✭✭✭L31mr0d


    ixoy wrote: »
    I'd throw in 'Stargate: SG-1' into that mix as well to bulk it up by ten.

    The first 3 and, imo, the best seasons of SG1 where in the 90's.

    Anyway, I'm not going to get into numbers over this, or personal tastes (I liked Voyager, and every season of the X-Files even though it did drop in quality coming up to the end). There was just far more good, consistent Sci-fi in the 90's for all tastes. I'm only naming the big shows off the top of my head, but there where a lot of other shows that where on also that have been mentioned (add Space: Above and Beyond)

    Are you really saying the 00's where equal or better in quantity and quality to the amount of popular Sci-Fi in the 90's?


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    #25
    Hank_Jones
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,783 ✭✭✭Hank_Jones


    Richard Dower wrote: »
    Maybe they could reboot Star Trek, but teenie-fy it: Star Trek Academy.....group of trainee cadets going through the paces, might be a hit!

    I don't think so. After the Enterprise (01-05) debacle I really don't see there being another Star Trek for quite some time.
    I think what went wrong with it is that they should have gone back in time, to the very beginning.
    The other newer shows were always always around the same timelines, so there was no real need to explain anything.


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    #26
    ixoy
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 17,990 Mod ✭✭✭✭ixoy


    L31mr0d wrote: »
    Are you really saying the 00's where equal or better in quantity and quality to the amount of popular Sci-Fi in the 90's?
    Well with a few exceptions above, possibly not. I've a nasty feeling that some of the shows I'm thinking were '00s were actually '90s.
    If you do include fantasy genre then it can potentially veer in other directions.

    I suppose, from my perspective, that I was never a big Star Trek fan after DS9 so it's faded a bit from my memory, even though its best era was definitely the '90s (later seasons of TNG and all of DS9).

    I just think the '00s brought us a fair few classics, such as 'Farscape' and is being dealt a bit of a raw deal, perhaps due to a bit of nostaliga!


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    #27
    Richard Dower
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,634 ✭✭✭✭Richard Dower


    Enterprise was set before Kirk, but yet the tech and ships looked more advanced?...i hated Enterprise, for me Bakula was a terrible choice for starship captain.


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    #28
    Richard Dower
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,634 ✭✭✭✭Richard Dower


    Thing is, there is ALOT of untapped talent out there, writers....doing great work, books and graphic novels. It can't all be budget related....name a show that relied less on CGI and more stories but suceeded?


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    #29
    Hank_Jones
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,783 ✭✭✭Hank_Jones


    Richard Dower wrote: »
    Enterprise was set before Kirk, but yet the tech and ships looked more advanced?...i hated Enterprise, for me Bakula was a terrible choice for starship captain.

    Yeah, who was doing the casting for that?

    Ok, so we'll take the lead from another quite popular science fiction show and make him the lead for a Star Trek show. It's clearly got win written all over it.

    All they needed was Al to jump out and say that Ziggy calculated he may not be able to make the next leap...


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    #30
    Hank_Jones
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,783 ✭✭✭Hank_Jones


    Richard Dower wrote: »
    Thing is, there is ALOT of untapped talent out there, writers....doing great work, books and graphic novels. It can't all be budget related....name a show that relied less on CGI and more stories but suceeded?

    Quantum Leap.

    Think a case could be made for X-Files as well.


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    #31
    MisterAnarchy
    Registered Users Posts: 14,672 ✭✭✭✭MisterAnarchy


    Mr E wrote: »
    TV Exec 1: "We have 2 shows to pitch. One is a really edgy sci-fi show that will get us a couple of million viewers, after a few seasons it might build up to something huge, it will cost a fortune to make due to the special effects, and will be mainly watched by men under 35. Or we have a cookie-cutter cop/medical show that will be watched by millions across all demographics, can be syndicated world-wide and make us a bloody fortune in syndication and DVD sales for years to come."

    TV Exec 2: "Ummm....."

    Spot on Mr E.
    Most tv shows these days are either reality/fly on the wall/diy/renovation/formulaic drama/unfunny comedy .
    Everything must try to appeal to the lowest common denominator ,its tv by numbers.
    Sci fi is just too intelligent for the dumb masses to appreciate.
    Its not only on tv,I could count on one hand the number of decent original scifi films or thrillers released each year.They just arent being made anymore.
    Far easier to release some slasher/teen/zombie horror or dumbed down drama.


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