Sick Member of Staff

ocokev

Want to know what people think of this person.

Last year in november he took a week off with swine flu mon - fri.

At christmas we were working on the 28 - 29th and no sign of him he rang in with a cold.

After xmas no sign of him for two whole weeks.

He came back and said he had the cold over xmas, then got a lung infection and ended up with mild flu sympthoms.

We had a night out on the 29th and he kept texting to see where we were but nobody answered.

He was seen driving around town in janurary with sun glasses and the arm stuck out the window.

When he returned from his trio of illnesses he was walking around in a tee shirt, when it was -3 degrees outside.

Once again he is off sick, now with a viral infection.

Is it possible for somebody to be this sick this many times.

What can management do?

youcancallmeal

If he's got all the necessary sick notes from a doctor then there is not much that can be done. If he is regularly taking 2 weeks of 'sick' and not supplying a doctors note then I'm very surprised that he is still employed where you work, or maybe this person is the bosses son?

Tabnabs

What does you company handbook say about sick leave etc.?

ocokev

He has sick notes all right.

Alot of people p**sed with him, cos sometimes he can predict when he is going to be sick.

Can management ring the MD and verify if sick note is genuine?

kc66

Sounds like he is used to being employed by the government.

meditraitor

ocokev wrote: »

Want to know what people think of this person.

Last year in november he took a week off with swine flu mon - fri.

At christmas we were working on the 28 - 29th and no sign of him he rang in with a cold.

After xmas no sign of him for two whole weeks.

He came back and said he had the cold over xmas, then got a lung infection and ended up with mild flu sympthoms.

We had a night out on the 29th and he kept texting to see where we were but nobody answered.

He was seen driving around town in janurary with sun glasses and the arm stuck out the window.

When he returned from his trio of illnesses he was walking around in a tee shirt, when it was -3 degrees outside.

Once again he is off sick, now with a viral infection.

Is it possible for somebody to be this sick this many times.

What can management do?

Ive had 3 flu's and food poisoning since december, so the answer to your question is yes, somebody can be sick that often.

I think the fact that I came to work during the illnesses effected my chance of getting better, Us managers have to set an example ;-)

enda1

ocokev wrote: »

He has sick notes all right.

Alot of people p**sed with him, cos sometimes he can predict when he is going to be sick.

Can management ring the MD and verify if sick note is genuine?

Of course they can.
Also probably have the right to get a second opinion (which they pay for) though not sure about this.

MIRMIR82

The company can send him to their own doctor but am unsure of the ins and outs of this situation. I know its frustrating but some people are just sick all the time.:(

ocokev

Not sure but its standard enough.

Anything over 3 days sick note required.Then anything after that your on your own.

I dont know cos iv only been out sick for one day myself so never checked.

He is no relation to anyone in managment.

Eoin

You can still be let go if you're off sick too much, even if you have a sick note for each period of absence.

Here is some more information from this page:

Dismissal related to short-term illness generally occurs where you have a medical problem that results in frequent absences for short periods from the workplace. Assuming that the genuine nature of your problem was not in question, your employer will have to show that a pattern of absence exists, that it is causing problems, that the problem is unlikely to get better and that you have been warned that dismissal is likely.

Wishbone Ash

ocokev wrote: »

Can management ring the MD and verify if sick note is genuine?

They are very unlikely to do that. The are under no obligation to accept his medical certificates and can request that he attend a MO of the employer's choosing.

If a regular sick pattern emerges, he can be deemed to be unsuitable for the position and let go.

ilovebiology

ocokev wrote: »

Want to know what people think of this person.

Last year in november he took a week off with swine flu mon - fri.

At christmas we were working on the 28 - 29th and no sign of him he rang in with a cold.

After xmas no sign of him for two whole weeks.

He came back and said he had the cold over xmas, then got a lung infection and ended up with mild flu sympthoms.

We had a night out on the 29th and he kept texting to see where we were but nobody answered.

He was seen driving around town in janurary with sun glasses and the arm stuck out the window.

When he returned from his trio of illnesses he was walking around in a tee shirt, when it was -3 degrees outside.

Once again he is off sick, now with a viral infection.

Is it possible for somebody to be this sick this many times.

What can management do?

If he has sick certs from the doctor then he is ill. I will tell you something, I am a person who is genuinely sick, and who is in and out of hospital, and the treatment I have got from work, from my collegues, and from management is nothing short of completely horrific. I have had comments passed about "Sick people taking the p1ss", and management have treated me worse than dirt just because I am sick. I am sick at it is, but because of the way I have been treated has effected my health in other ways as well, so much so that I am off to court to get justice for how I have been treated. I am sick of people judging, and discriminating people just because they are legitimately sick, and it is people like you judging a person who is sick where legal proceedings start. If he is sick, he is sick, if he is not then he will be eventually found out, if I were you, just get on with your work, and mind your own business :mad:

wmpdd3

I am sorry for the situation you have found yourself in with your sickness but as a manager i have to manage long term sickness before I wouldn't allow treatment taunts like those you have had but i have had to reduce contracts and let people go as they cannot fulfill their employment contracts.

Unless you have detailed evidence of bulling in the workplace I can't see how you have a case.

OP, many employers have absenteeism measures to manage absenteeism.

Such as:

if your absent for more than 20% of you normal working hours
or
absent more than 3 episodes in 3 months
or
a pattern has emerged in your absence

this would trigger a meeting with HR to discuss your ability to fulfill your contract, targets would be set and if they cannot be achieved then you could be subject to a disciplinary process possibly ending in dismissal.

But if no guidelines exist in your company handbook of your contract of employment it could be very hard to enforce and measures after the fact.

Wishbone Ash

ilovebiology wrote: »

I am a person who is genuinely sick, and who is in and out of hospital

I don't understand the point you are trying to make. If you are 'genuinely sick' and 'in and out of hospital' then presumably you may not be suitable for the position in which you were employed. If you were an employer, would you be prepared to employ a person who was not fit for purpose? While the attitude of your fellow employees and management is regretable, it is a side issue, and totally irrelevant to the fact that you may be unsuitable for your position.

ilovebiology wrote:

If he has sick certs from the doctor then he is ill

A bit naive IMO. All of our 'repeat offenders' have medical certificates from their GP but strangley enough, when we refer them to OH, 90% of them show an immediate recovery.

Now speaking of genuine illness, one of our lads submitted a cert. last week. I almost went into shock. It was his first absence in 24 years and only his 3rd absence in 40 years. While I have sympathy for those who are unlucky enough to suffer genuine ill-health, should I be expected to ignore those employees who demonstrate real commitment?

wmpdd3

Every time I call to the doc for an anti biotic for tonsillitis, she automatically writes me a cert for a week or so. It has taken her 5 years to learn that i am going back to work and don't need the cert. I'm fine 24 hrs after taking the first tablet.

mood

wmpdd3 wrote: »

Every time I call to the doc for an anti biotic for tonsillitis, she automatically writes me a cert for a week or so. It has taken her 5 years to learn that i am going back to work and don't need the cert. I'm fine 24 hrs after taking the first tablet.

That is unusual. When ever I am on antibiotics I don't start to feel better until at least half way through the course.

OP yes people can get sick that often. The time he was seen in the car maybe he was going to or coming from the doctors/chemist. However, walking around in a t-shirt in cold weather is asking to get sick!

Goduznt Xzst

Sick notes mean jack.

My local GP will give me a sick note when I go to have my ear canal checked. She'll outright ask me "what do you want, a week off?" She's always going on about how people don't have enough time to look after themselves these days so they need the rest, whether they think they need it or not.

I've started using private healthcare now as she's useless, everything is fixed with antibiotics :rolleyes:. But I can guarantee that anybody in my area looking for a free sick week is going to her.

Afaik, my job reserves the right to let anyone go if they've had 12 nonconsecutive sick days in a year.

mood

Goduznt Xzst wrote: »

Sick notes mean jack.

My local GP will give me a sick note when I go to have my ear canal checked. She'll outright ask me "what do you want, a week off?" She's always going on about how people don't have enough time to look after themselves these days so they need the rest, whether they think they need it or not.

I've started using private healthcare now as she's useless, everything is fixed with antibiotics :rolleyes:. But I can guarantee that anybody in my area looking for a free sick week is going to her.

Afaik, my job reserves the right to let anyone go if they've had 12 nonconsecutive sick days in a year.

God, she sounds crap. I've never come across this before. But my doctor is very good and I only go to see her when genuinely sick and after over the counter meds don't work.

What do you mean by you save started using private healthcare because she is crap?

flash harry

I saw this the other day that may answer a few questions:

one client of mine completely reversed all their sick pay problems in one go by simply not paying anyone after the 3rd sick day of their year, virtually eliminated sick leave.

I have real sympathy for anyone with a serious health issue but in reality I would say this is the tiniest of % of overall sick leave.

mood

flash harry wrote: »

I saw this the other day that may answer a few questions:

one client of mine completely reversed all their sick pay problems in one go by simply not paying anyone after the 3rd sick day of their year, virtually eliminated sick leave.

I have real sympathy for anyone with a serious health issue but in reality I would say this is the tiniest of % of overall sick leave.

Good idea in theory. One of my old collegues came in sick once and as a result three of us ended up on sick leave. Surely it's better have one person off for 3 or 4 days rather than having 4 people out sick of 3 or 4 days!

Wishbone Ash

Yes, it is possible. I took a new job a couple of years ago and was off for 4 days with a chest infection 2 weeks after starting. I then got bad, bad tonsillitis (glands swollen like balloons and couldn't swallow) which sent me to A&E and the week after that, had to go home with a migraine. I'm sure it looked like I was skiving but it was 100% genuine. In my case, one bad illness requiring a bout of antibiotics knocks my body right off and I'm prone to getting sick again and again for a few weeks. I also have long term issues which don't affect my work, but mean I need days off here and there to go to the hospital.

I know lots of people skive, but it really is harsh on someone who's really sick to come down like a ton of bricks. It's bad enough being ill without getting a hard time about it. I'd devastated if I got fired for being ill. I can go months without a day off (haven't taken one day off my job since I started in October, for any reason) but if I were to get sick to the point of not being able to attend, I'd hope my employer would be understanding.

Wishbone Ash wrote:

I don't understand the point you are trying to make. If you are 'genuinely sick' and 'in and out of hospital' then presumably you may not be suitable for the position in which you were employed. If you were an employer, would you be prepared to employ a person who was not fit for purpose? While the attitude of your fellow employees and management is regretable, it is a side issue, and totally irrelevant to the fact that you may be unsuitable for your position.

I guess it depends how much the person is out but this is a bit simplistic. I presume you're in good health? If you suddenly developed an illness or kept getting struck by bouts of this and that, would you be prepared to just quit work? Sick people aren't some other species, it can happen to anyone. I was the fittest girl in the world, hadn't even visited a doctor until I was 18, never had a day off school, couldn't understand why other people were always sick. I'm a lot more understanding now. I'm productive, efficient, hardworking and responsible, it just so happens I may need a few more sick days than the average person. I just may, as I said I haven't a day off my current job as yet. Denying me a job because I can't guarantee I'll be there 100% of the time would be discrimination, IMO. Smokers taking smoke breaks probably have more time off than I do, when you count it all up.

Now speaking of genuine illness, one of our lads submitted a cert. last week. I almost went into shock. It was his first absence in 24 years and only his 3rd absence in 40 years. While I have sympathy for those who are unlucky enough to suffer genuine ill-health, should I be expected to ignore those employees who demonstrate real commitment?

So people who suffer from health issues aren't committed to their jobs? That's a shocking lack of empathy. I would absolutely love to have 100% attendance every year, but sometimes I just can't. Especially not if it's a 9-5 job, so all hospital appointments have to be made during working hours (had one boss ask if I could go on my lunch break - sure, you can go to the hospital, register, be seen, have a consultation and be back at your desk in an hour!) There's nothing wrong with praising those who have perfect attendance, but some people are just really lucky with their health. Doesn't make them better people. I'm a good worker and have great references from past employers, but like any normal, sane person, my health comes first.

I think OP should mind their own business. Sure, it looks like this man could be just taking the p*ss but you don't know what's going on. There is nothing worse than being ill and people gossiping about you and jumping to conclusions. He could have depression, someone could have died, you don't know. It's none of your business. Let the boss deal with it.

vodafoneproblem

mood wrote: »

Good idea in theory. One of my old collegues came in sick once and as a result three of us ended up on sick leave. Surely it's better have one person off for 3 or 4 days rather than having 4 people out sick of 3 or 4 days!

+1
I have little time these days for people who think they're martyrs by coming into work when they're coughing and sniffling and then giving everyone the 'amn't I great' look. Well, no, you're not, and you're not being considerate of the rest of us. I don't want your infection and neither does anyone else here! Get out and stay out until you're clear of your disease! I don't need my time off ruined by your lack of consideration, thanks very much.

Butterfly618

vodafoneproblem wrote: »

+1
I have little time these days for people who think they're martyrs by coming into work when they're coughing and sniffling and then giving everyone the 'amn't I great' look. Well, no, you're not, and you're not being considerate of the rest of us. I don't want your infection and neither does anyone else here! Get out and stay out until you're clear of your disease! I don't need my time off ruined by your lack of consideration, thanks very much.

oh I SO agree with you on this one!!! I am off sick right now because of my idiot boss who comes in sick ALL THE TIME coughing, puking, sniffling and touching everything from phones to walkies to door handles and more. He is so proud of never having EVER called in sick during his entire working lifetime...and yet he gets the rest of the office sick continually and then bitches about us calling out sick. We all get reprimanded for calling out or are made to use personal or vacation time rather than paid sick (only 5 days per year allowed). When we blame him for it he just says be like me, come in despite illness. So now I am headed into what will likely be my second bout of pneumonia in 6 months thanks to this inconsiderate jerk. Company agrees with him that you should work sick so will not do a thing to stop him from coming in all the time sick.

I don't know what to do about this anymore because I almost feel it's harrassment because I don't want to keep getting sick because of this man and using my own personal time because of him. HR is on his side but there just should be something legally wrong with this or something done. I am SO tired of being sick because of him!!! Grrrrrrrrrrr :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

mood

Butterfly618 wrote: »

oh I SO agree with you on this one!!! I am off sick right now because of my idiot boss who comes in sick ALL THE TIME coughing, puking, sniffling and touching everything from phones to walkies to door handles and more. He is so proud of never having EVER called in sick during his entire working lifetime...and yet he gets the rest of the office sick continually and then bitches about us calling out sick. We all get reprimanded for calling out or are made to use personal or vacation time rather than paid sick (only 5 days per year allowed). When we blame him for it he just says be like me, come in despite illness. So now I am headed into what will likely be my second bout of pneumonia in 6 months thanks to this inconsiderate jerk. Company agrees with him that you should work sick so will not do a thing to stop him from coming in all the time sick.

I don't know what to do about this anymore because I almost feel it's harrassment because I don't want to keep getting sick because of this man and using my own personal time because of him. HR is on his side but there just should be something legally wrong with this or something done. I am SO tired of being sick because of him!!! Grrrrrrrrrrr :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Follow him around with a can of dettol spray!

Jo King

Butterfly618 wrote: »

I don't know what to do about this anymore because I almost feel it's harrassment because I don't want to keep getting sick because of this man and using my own personal time because of him. HR is on his side but there just should be something legally wrong with this or something done. I am SO tired of being sick because of him!!! Grrrrrrrrrrr :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Of course there is something legally wrong with this. Allowing someone with an infectious malady to remain in the workplace is a breach of the Health & Safety Act 2005. An employer is obliged to provide a safe place of work.

Derekjames

If a person is ill then they are fully entitled to be out of work to get themselves better, yes going around in a t shirt in winter is not the wisest of choices to be frank I dont think I would like to be working in a company
where my colleagues would be checking what clothes I was wearing and how many times a person is out sick and wondering if it is genuine or not,
I have to much going on in my personal life to be worried about other people and whether someone is taking advantage of a Companies sick leave policy.

I pity the person if they have a genuine illness working with people like that shame on you.

I never took advantage of taking sick leave when working and never would but worrying 'what can management do' is not for you to be worried about unless you are getting paid to worry about it that is for HR to deal with

bette

Very often the sick person is not replaced and the staff are usually burdened with extra work. There are also a good number of people in employment who suffer from the incurable affliction hypochondria. It often occurs on mondays and near bank holidays!

Oh, and the sneezers would already have infected you before they stant sneezing.

When is a person with influenza contagious?
A person is most likely to pass on the virus during the period beginning one to two days before the onset of symptoms and ending four to five days after the onset

http://www.vaccineinformation.org/flu/qandadis.asp

colsku

ilovebiology wrote: »

If he has sick certs from the doctor then he is ill. I will tell you something, I am a person who is genuinely sick, and who is in and out of hospital, and the treatment I have got from work, from my collegues, and from management is nothing short of completely horrific. I have had comments passed about "Sick people taking the p1ss", and management have treated me worse than dirt just because I am sick. I am sick at it is, but because of the way I have been treated has effected my health in other ways as well, so much so that I am off to court to get justice for how I have been treated. I am sick of people judging, and discriminating people just because they are legitimately sick, and it is people like you judging a person who is sick where legal proceedings start. If he is sick, he is sick, if he is not then he will be eventually found out, if I were you, just get on with your work, and mind your own business :mad:

You're constantly sick and people are making co,ments - that is only natural. I think it is pathetic that you feel the need to take people to court. it will only serve to alienate yourself further. I'd say your a nightmare to work with...

mood

colsku wrote: »

You're constantly sick and people are making co,ments - that is only natural. I think it is pathetic that you feel the need to take people to court. it will only serve to alienate yourself further. I'd say your a nightmare to work with...

Colsku we have no idea of the extent of bad treatment this guy is getting because of his health. Bullying is wrong and illegal the the more people who stand up to bullying the better.

wobblyknees

Butterfly618 wrote: »

oh I SO agree with you on this one!!! I am off sick right now because of my idiot boss who comes in sick ALL THE TIME coughing, puking, sniffling and touching everything from phones to walkies to door handles and more. He is so proud of never having EVER called in sick during his entire working lifetime...and yet he gets the rest of the office sick continually and then bitches about us calling out sick. We all get reprimanded for calling out or are made to use personal or vacation time rather than paid sick (only 5 days per year allowed). When we blame him for it he just says be like me, come in despite illness. So now I am headed into what will likely be my second bout of pneumonia in 6 months thanks to this inconsiderate jerk. Company agrees with him that you should work sick so will not do a thing to stop him from coming in all the time sick.

I don't know what to do about this anymore because I almost feel it's harrassment because I don't want to keep getting sick because of this man and using my own personal time because of him. HR is on his side but there just should be something legally wrong with this or something done. I am SO tired of being sick because of him!!! Grrrrrrrrrrr :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Seriously? Full blown pneumonia?

wobblyknees

flash harry wrote: »

I saw this the other day that may answer a few questions:

one client of mine completely reversed all their sick pay problems in one go by simply not paying anyone after the 3rd sick day of their year, virtually eliminated sick leave.

I have real sympathy for anyone with a serious health issue but in reality I would say this is the tiniest of % of overall sick leave.

This is essentially true, but if an employer is paying even one person sick leave, it can be proved to be discrimination if just one person isn't.

ocokev

ilovebiology wrote: »

I am sick of people judging, and discriminating people just because they are legitimately sick, and it is people like you judging a person who is sick where legal proceedings start. If he is sick, he is sick, if he is not then he will be eventually found out, if I were you, just get on with your work, and mind your own business :mad:

I sympatise with your situtation you probably genuine, but when you are sick do you text people to go drinking with? Are you able to say " i will be sick on 26 and 27th. Do you drive round town on the coldest day of the year with the flu in a tee shirt and sun glasses with the window down in you car? I dont think so.
This person is not sick and all im asking is what can management do.
Everybody else has to carry the slack when is off not to mention the sick pay.

kayos

ocokev wrote: »

This person is not sick and all im asking is what can management do.

Are you a MD? Did you actually preform a medical examination on this guy? No well then he could very well be sick. While given your description he most likely isnt, it is not your or any one elses, bar a medical professional, place to say if he is or is not fit for work.

Management will do what management will do. You are not management and as such it really is none of your bee's wax. If you really want to do something about it raise the fact you think your work mate is faking illness and let them deal with it. Be ready to give full details of why you think this and be ready to back them up..

Eoin

See my earlier post below. Even if the sickness is genuine, management can act on it.

eoin wrote: »

You can still be let go if you're off sick too much, even if you have a sick note for each period of absence.

Here is some more information from this page: