Knights in Shining Armour

donfers

Let me first tell you a story.
A while back, I was waiting while outside a nightclub for some of my friends. Three girls exited the nightclub, stumbling down some stairs, bumping into people and shouting and screaming and giggling. After they bumped into me I said in jest "Girls, show a bit of decorum". They then came over and started flirting a bit, saying stuff like "Do I know you?/Have we met?Wherer you headed?/You look like bla bla bla". I didn't have any interest in the smalltalk and when another of my friends exited he asked what we were talking about.
One of the girls said "well your friend asked us to show a bit of decorum". My friend again jokingly said "Will you go away out of it girls, you could'nt even spell decorum". One of them then proceeded to spell it incorrectly. Now all the while this was going on the girls had completely invaded our personal space, we were basically backing off, showing closed body language signals, not participating too much in the conversation or encouraging them. Anyway eventually what I assumed to be one of the boyfriends to the girls storms over to our gathering and basically tries to intimidate one of my friends who had done absolutely nothing. Staring him up and down, asking him "What the f**k are you doing?..show some respect for the girls....Who the f**k do you think you are....don't talk to the girls like that...bla bla bla" . I think one of the girls had told him our group had said the girls should show a bit of decorum, he obviously wasn't aware of the lighthearted nature of this most foul of insults (in his mind). Anyway I almost never ever ever ever ever lose my cool, it takes forever for me to get any bit angry and usually in almost all situations I am laidback and calm. But this enraged me. In my mind he was trying to play the knight in shining armour in order to show off to the girls when there was absolutely no just reason for it. Me and my friends weren't drunk, we weren't interested in his group of women nor had we done anything more than had a bit of banter with them provoked by them bashing into everyone. Indeed they found the whole decorum discussion quite amusing and were laughing away before the knight in shining armour showed up. Anyway I told him it was me that said they should show more decorum and to get out of the face of my friend and not to stick his nose into something where there was no need for it, then there was a bit of pushing and shoving and he walked away with his tail between his legs.
Sorry for the long story but that is an example of knight in shining armour behaviour in my view. Sometimes it is admirable, sometimes I have done it, sometimes it is absolutely necessary but it disgusts me when guys play the knight in shining armour card when it is absolutely unnecessary in order to show off to girls. Sometimes too a girl will test the guy to see if he will take the knight in shining armour role and then lambast him if he refuses or deems it unnecessary.
Examples, in my opinion, when it is unnecessary are:
if your girlfriend/partner is chatting away to another guy, leave it. You don't posess her, don't jump in aggressively as that insults both her and the guy. It assumes you don't trust her and it assumes the guy has devious intentions. If she is doing this on purpose to rile/test you that is even more good reason not to react.
if there is an argument in the workplace/social group often some guys will jump to the defense of the girl....I don't mind this if he shares her opinion, but often it will be in order to impress her regardless of his opinion on the issue. This again is insulting to the woman as it assumes she is weak and can't argue her case for herself.
There are numerous other cases where I've seen examples of this (you can even see it on boards). As I've said before oftentimes chivalry is a great and noble thing but often the very notion of it is abused as alterior motives are at play. It's up to you and your judgement of the individual situation to decide when the knight in shining armour is out of line.

force majeure

:rolleyes:
Being the miserable feckless sod I'm its being a while since I have being any way near a knight in shiny silver... still its not too late, is it... oooo sod it so. :cool:

krudler

If I saw my missus being harassed or being annoyed by a drunk guy I'd go over and make it clear she's with someone else if it started getting out of hand, but aside from that I leave her off, she's better at insulting drunk guys than I am so I have enough faith in her abilities to send some drunk letch packing on her own. I was fuming the other night though, even started a thread in the ranting and raving forum about it as some muppet kept poking her in the shoulder telling her not to be taking pictures at a concert, she never said it at the time I wasnt aware of it until after the show, him I would have happily laid into, nobody puts their hand on my woman.

donfers

krudler wrote: »

If I saw my missus being harassed or being annoyed by a drunk guy I'd go over and make it clear she's with someone else if it started getting out of hand, but aside from that I leave her off, she's better at insulting drunk guys than I am so I have enough faith in her abilities to send some drunk letch packing on her own. I was fuming the other night though, even started a thread in the ranting and raving forum about it as some muppet kept poking her in the shoulder telling her not to be taking pictures at a concert, she never said it at the time I wasnt aware of it until after the show, him I would have happily laid into, nobody puts their hand on my woman.

:eek:
funnily enough....i was about to start a thread in ranting&raving about people taking pictures at a concert

krudler

donfers wrote: »

:eek:
funnily enough....i was about to start a thread in ranting&raving about people taking pictures at a concert

Thats what r&r is there for

Dr Galen

i'm not sure of this is a rant or a rave tbh? maybe both?

apart from the letting off steam OP, what where you hoping to get from this thread? What discussion where you hoping to provoke?

Star Lord

IMHO, that's not Knight In Shining Armour behaviour that the guy exhibited, it was arrogance combined with ignorance. There's a massive difference.

I would only classify any behaviour as being K.I.S.A. style behaviour if the lady is in need of rescuing, appreciates saving them from whatever the situation is, etc...

The guy in your story wasn't the knight, he was the dragon

donfers

Mystik Monkey wrote: »

i'm not sure of this is a rant or a rave tbh? maybe both?

apart from the letting off steam OP, what where you hoping to get from this thread? What discussion where you hoping to provoke?

sorry about that, i didn't really get to the point


well what I want to ask is when is "knight in shining armour" behaviour justifiable and when is it not?

Have you ever encountered it, participated in it, fought against it?

Most crucially when do you think it is ok for a guy to step in, how do we know if the stepping in is done for show or not?

When should we intervene? What factors influence the decision?

PK2008

These kind of posts appear to me to be similar in theme to the 'pick up artist' type threads.

I know you say you werent trying to pick up the girls OP but it does seem that your post is trying to preach how other men should behave in front of women by positing a situation (if real, certainly biased) in which your behaviour has been 'superior' to both the women and other men in the situation. Your coolness in handling it then seems to make you attractive to the women and thus makes their inferior boyfriends jealous.

If this situation happened the way you said it did then well done, you are certainly the cool, calm, collective, assertive, confident male you have portrayed yourself to be, however I fail to see the point of this thread as it is based on the very simple premise of - "Dont you hate people who act badly in social situations" (with my noble example of proper behaviour attached for illustration)
- So the answer is simple; Yes, in general most of us do.

Question answered, ego stroked?

entropi

Actually OP, it is you who was the knight in shining armour in that scenario...look at it from my point of view: you were the one who stepped in to defend your mate, you done it in front of these ladies who didnt really want this tool stepping in and disrupting a bit of banter, yet unintentionally this would have struck quite a positive note with them in terms of spotting assholes, having someone's back when needed and knowing how to handle situations etc...

Fair play to ya!

donfers

PK2008 wrote: »

These kind of posts appear to me to be similar in theme to the 'pick up artist' type threads.

I know you say you werent trying to pick up the girls OP but it does seem that your post is trying to preach how other men should behave in front of women by positing a situation (if real, certainly biased) in which your behaviour has been 'superior' to both the women and other men in the situation. Your coolness in handling it then seems to make you attractive to the women and thus makes their inferior boyfriends jealous.

If this situation happened the way you said it did then well done, you are certainly the cool, calm, collective, assertive, confident male you have portrayed yourself to be, however I fail to see the point of this thread as it is based on the very simple premise of - "Dont you hate people who act badly in social situations" (with my noble example of proper behaviour attached for illustration)
- So the answer is simple; Yes, in general most of us do.

Question answered, ego stroked?

I wasn't cool, calm and collected at all. I lost my cool. The girls didn't find it attractive at all, they thought I was a complete tool for getting involved in handbags with one of their boyfriends. Not that I cared what they thought. On rereading the initial post I do come across as a bit of a smug self-satisfied git. I am a bit, but that's beside the point.

The thing is I am honestly interested in the tough judgement call for us guys about when we should do absolutely nothing (which I do 99% of the time) and when we should either intervene on behalf of a girl/friend or object to the intervention of someone else because we don't deem it genuinely necessary. It's a minefield and as I said I just let things go most of the time because whatever you do it can perceived in some way as "showing off to the girls", "trying to be the macho guy standing up for your friends". All ego-driven jostling for status stuff but at times I can't help being drawn into it or confronting those who have been drawn into it. I am just wondering if others have this same inner debate going on or am I, as usual, overanalysing situations

PK2008

When a person uses the pretence of chivalry/standing up for others as a means for progressing their own desires or boosting their own ego it is indeed annoying.

This type of behaviour is often used in social and political maneuvering. Some people have built reputations and careers on it. Unfortunately it is just a part of life.

But then we all do it....

For example (and now this isnt an attack on you) but your original post portrays you in a positive light, even the mention of you 'losing your cool' is softened by the details in your post which provide a reasonable defense and are put forward in a way that would make the reader empathic toward your situation. This makes it easy for the reader to side with you in your argument as you appeal to the reader to think of situations in which they also felt the same.

Now Im not saying you have been dishonest or have consciously sought approval of the readers here, Im just saying that whenever we as humans try to engage with each other (be it socially or virtually) we do so in a pre-meditated (albeit subconscious) way that seeks to increase our social standing among our peers- its very natural and I am probably doing it as I type this aswell.

donfers

PK2008 wrote: »

When a person uses the pretence of chivalry/standing up for others as a means for progressing their own desires or boosting their own ego it is indeed annoying.

This type of behaviour is often used in social and political maneuvering. Some people have built reputations and careers on it. Unfortunately it is just a part of life.

But then we all do it....

For example (and now this isnt an attack on you) but your original post portrays you in a positive light, even the mention of you 'losing your cool' is softened by the details in your post which provide a reasonable defense and are put forward in a way that would make the reader empathic toward your situation. This makes it easy for the reader to side with you in your argument as you appeal to the reader to think of situations in which they also felt the same.

Now Im not saying you have been dishonest or have consciously sought approval of the readers here, Im just saying that whenever we as humans try to engage with each other (be it socially or virtually) we do so in a pre-meditated (albeit subconscious) way that seeks to increase our social standing among our peers- its very natural and I am probably doing it as I type this aswell.

Yes I agree with that, but I am trying to determine when that behaviour becomes unacceptable?

Where do we draw the line and object to it?

PK2008

donfers wrote: »

Yes I agree with that, but I am trying to determine when that behaviour becomes unacceptable?

Where do we draw the line and object to it?

Unfortunately there is no line - or at least there is no universally accepted line other than the law. Everything within the law remains fair game- those who are good at it can use it altruistically or to their advantage and often do, those who are not good at it or try to resist its existance tend to become frustrated with it.

Galvasean

DamoElDiablo wrote: »

IMHO, that's not Knight In Shining Armour behaviour that the guy exhibited, it was arrogance combined with ignorance. There's a massive difference.

You are correct sir. The knight in shining armour is the one who sticks up for a lady's (or anyone elses's for that matter) well being when they actually need help and is not looking for anything in return.
What the OP described is more of a 'have a go hero', the kind of leech that tries to pass themself off as a KISA with the hope of improving their chances of scoring etc. These kind of people actively look for opportunities to show off their machoness in front of women. Rest assured they don't give a damn about the damsel in distress, just what they can get from them.

Smart Bug

For me a Knight in Shining Armour's the person who stands up against the bullies/agressors in a given situation, regardless of the sex of the (for want of a better word) victim or perpetrator.

This view may have been influenced by the excessive amount of revenge-orientated westerns I've watched tho.

Handsome Bob

Never really have been in a position where I have had to be a knight in shining armour, I have observed plenty of what you describe though. What that guy engaged in was textbook stuff in how to make yourself look good at the expense of others. The way he narrowed in on one person in your group, no doubt because he felt he had located the "weakest" person in the group.

I suppose the only time I've ever been a KISA is when I was working in an office. One of the lads was getting a bit too inappropiate with my replacement (who I was training in). She had confided in me that the guy was following her to her car every night after work and pestering her for a date. She was too afraid to tell anyone because he was a "nice bloke". I didn't confront him because I didn't want to give myself an ego stroke, instead I just brought it to my manager's attention. She thanked me as I was leaving because she said she had no idea how serious it was until she spoke to our manager. That to me is what a KISA is, helping someone out for selfless reasons without trying to make yourself look like a big man at the expense of others.

Valmont

krudler wrote: »

nobody puts their hand on my woman.

Side question here: Do women like being referred to as belongings or is it just a technicality? I don't like the idea of owning a girl.

Boston

Saying something is yours may have connotations of owner ship, but doesn't have to be equivalent to it. Matters of the heart are one area where it is acceptable to consider another human as being as much yours as you are theirs.

That said, the attitude of "no one can lay a hand on my woman" doesn't sit right. It was your partners choice not to tell krudler, and from the sounds of things she kept it to herself because she knew he'd disregard her feelings and lay into the chap.

ToxicPaddy

A good few years ago, I was out for a few drinks with mates, had a fair few pints but still had an idea of what I was doing.. not much mind you..

Anyway, as I want wandering away on my merry way off in search of a taxi to get home, I saw 2 girls who were looking for something in one of their handbags and then 2 guys behind them, who came up, grabbed one by the arse and made some suggestive comments to one, which needless to say provoked a not so nice reaction from the girls in question, the guys got a bit aggro over it all it all was about to kick off when I just got there.

I walked up to one of the girls and said "ahh there you are, was wondering where you go to", winked at the girl, she copped it, turned to her mate and pulled her away and they linked my arms, I turned to the 2 lads and said, sorry lads, need to get these girls home and walked off.. the 2 guys, just stopped and never said a word..

I walked the 2 girls to their place, which was only down the road, said good night and turned and walked away and made my way home..

Completely forgot about it until about 2 weeks later when a girl walked up to the bar I was working in at the time and said, ahh there is my knight in shining armour, it was only there I remembered it all and we chatted, had a laugh and that was it..

If I had been sober I probably wouldn't have intervened but drink does stupid things and I could have got my head kicked in..

The whole knight in shining armour thing especially when drink is involved is just stupid and thoughtless and gets a lot of guys into a lot of trouble as more often than not, its the girls who turn on them due to the fact that the guys they are arguing with turns out to be their scumbag b/f and the girl being "harassed" is often a bigger scumbag than the guy doing the harrassing!!!