Corrupt Ireland,should we be doing something.

Xluna

After reading Judge Nealons comments in the Judge prefers pigs to bankers thread I noticed how he questioned the civil tolerance of the corruption of those at the top,stating in previous times people would be tearing the stones from the buildings of banks,bit by bit. I'm not of course endorsing this but as a group are we too tolerant of authority?

I mean the chuch,the Banks and the Government raped this country and there's no justice. Tax payers are bailing out Nama,the churchs flock have been asked to donate money to pay for abuse victims and the guilty parties get massive pensions,avoid prosecution and get to keep their palaces. It's only when I think about in depth that I realise how unjust it is.

Ireland fought for Irish independence,so we could govern ourselves justly. Many people gave there lives for this. But it seems we lack the initiative to change the system. We're all talk but no action,myself included.
Is there anything that could be done peacefully to change the whole political system and is it fair to say that Judge Nealons comments about us being too tolerant is a fair critcism?

Biggins

...You mean besides peacefully lining a few people up and shooting them?

Nope, we're screwed for the foreseeable future.

Xluna

Biggins wrote: »

...You mean besides peacefully lining a few people up and shooting them?

Nope, we're screwed for the foreseeable future.

Can't we declare a new republic,like France have done?

bbbbb

Watched Der Baader Meinhof Komplex at the weekend, about the red army faction in germany in the '70s. They were some very angry young germans.
I was wondering how bad would things have to get for similar to happen here?
I think emigration is the safety valve though, and the govt knows it.

Biggins

Xluna wrote: »

Can't we declare a new republic,like France have done?

Your kidding?
So far we can't even declare a bar "open" on Good Friday in one county alone!

Coriolanus

bbbbb wrote: »

Watched Der Baader Meinhof Komplex at the weekend, about the red army faction in germany in the '70s. They were some very angry young germans.
I was wondering how bad would things have to get for similar to happen here?
I think emigration is the safety valve though, and the govt knows it.

That's the key I think. The world would have to be relatively more fúcked that we are, so that emigration would be unattractive.

orourkeda

Irish people like robbers and enjoy being robbed.

They will do fack all

mikedragon32

Problem is that when one group protest everyone else is up in arms proclaiming that we're all in this together... Everyone has to do their bit... It's the bankers' fault... It's the Public Service's fault etc... We all have to take some pain...

sron

People are bothered when their money is taken.
People get angry when their belly is empty.

Give it a few months yet.

Grimreaper666

Stop paying taxes, licences, fines, VAT etc., etc, hit the ****ers where it hurts, they cant put the whole country in jail, or else just march in masse to dail eireann but you need everybody on board for this not just the usual suspects. Nothing will happen if everyone just stands bye. Despite all the hardship we're taking on the ground the powers that be have taken no pain at all and compensate any cuts with expenses, I know I just can't claim expenses with out receipts like they can, why should they be any different, after all they're supposed to be working for us the people of Ireland not the other way around. Personally I think this country's ****ed, we're in so much trouble here at the moment the government are even afraid to admit all of it and still their arrogance prevails, even today I hear Mary Harney on about the public being the last to be told anything and sh!te about damage limitation, they've got some nerve the whole lot of them. I can see a serious revolt happening here soon and it will come about so fast they won't know what hit them. I'd hate to be caught in the cross fire though, riots and looting, not a nice place to be if all this kicks off. A couple of buddies of mine in the army were telling me recently that they're in training for riot situations here!!:eek:

brendansmith

Nah, it will sort itself out.

Grimreaper666

mikedragon32 wrote: »

Problem is that when one group protest everyone else is up in arms proclaiming that we're all in this together... Everyone has to do their bit... It's the bankers' fault... It's the Public Service's fault etc... We all have to take some pain...

It's time to name and shame, no point in firing them and giving them golden handshakes, cars and settlements and disturbance money. I mean the next they'll be suing us for firing them for ****ing up, they should be facing financial prosecution and jail for what they've done to us here and I certainly don't see why our pensions should be used to bail out the banks etc. I didn't see or hear any mention of asking the people who are paying for it what they though about it, it really is criminal to see what we're going to have to pay for from now on.

ejmaztec

Grimreaper666 wrote: »

It's time to name and shame, no point in firing them and giving them golden handshakes, cars and settlements and disturbance money. I mean the next they'll be suing us for firing them for ****ing up, they should be facing financial prosecution and jail for what they've done to us here and I certainly don't see why our pensions should be used to bail out the banks etc. I didn't see or hear any mention of asking the people who are paying for it what they though about it, it really is criminal to see what we're going to have to pay for from now on.

Things wouldn't be so grim if you reaped the lot of them.

Grimreaper666

ejmaztec wrote: »

Things wouldn't be so grim if you reaped the lot of them.

We don't want the ****ers in the next life believe me and don't fancy paying for NAMA there either.........

Ulysses Gaze

I can see a serious revolt happening here soon and it will come about so fast they won't know what hit them. I'd hate to be caught in the cross fire though, riots and looting, not a nice place to be if all this kicks off. A couple of buddies of mine in the army were telling me recently that they're in training for riot situations here!!

Look, if only a couple of hundred people turned up at the NAMA protests...there is literally no chance in hell of there being civil disorder in Ireland.

FFS, people in Ireland were more angry about Henry's handball than a €54 billion anchor that will probably capsize the country.

In Iceland they marched on their parliament and collapsed their Government. In Greece they've gone ballistic over proposed 'austerity measures' and hijacked Government buildings.

In Ireland? Meh....back to the barstool, thump the bar counter and more bitching and moaning while Seanie Fitz, Johnny Ronan et al can still swan around unaffected.

I don't condone reckless civil disorder btw....but the fact we couldn't even get 10-15,000 people at any of the peaceful NAMA protests was disheartening to say the least.

pirelli

The amount of people protesting Nama isn't a fair representation of all the problems people are suffering due to corruption. In fact it might be contradictatory to say: 'well in actual fact Nama fits corruption it like a neat little bow'.

Judge Neilan /nealans comments about 'tearing banks down brick by brick,' and 'lying down with pigs in a gutter;' rather than lie with bankers are fair comment but too little to late. That is the problem it is too late to become uncooperative and difficult.

The IMF stated in its report that Irelands Banking system ( not giving any credit to AIB or BOI ) must be able to recover effectively and efficently in order for the irish economy to recover.

I am not an economonist so i don't know if allowing our banks to go bankrupt is a good thing for our economy but i would expect that it isn't and i would imagine so few people are going manic in the streets over Nama is because it is seen as a neccessary step to getting ireland back on its feet.

Our banks issues bad balance sheets and many influential investors wil be avoiding ireland now for some time. That's where the buck stops. They should not operate in a fashion where we are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

What we should do is build a massive state of the art prison and be prepared to incarcerate white collar criminals, particuarly Judges, politicians, and corrupt and dishonest gardai; and of course solicitors; and doctors; and people; who deceive people through propaganda and are create miscarriages of justice should serve time. Most of all Managers in corporations and county councillors that act deceitfully and commit deceit and falsley records and other such facts.

Wallmart is an example where top down prosecutions would be most effective in easing world suffering.

Packieenright

There'll be some chance of white collar criminals getting their comeuppance alright. Let's just say a little prayer about it now that it's bedtime and forget it:

"God, grant me the courage to change the things that can be changed; the serenity to accept the things that cannot be changed; and the wisdom to know the difference"

Like some of ye said, the handful of people turning up at protests turns it into a joke. It's a problem we've always had as Irish - a lack of manliness to protest (except the farmers) and an unwillingness to support any rebel groups just in case we'd offend our local FF councillor or if the gardai might catch us. On the other hand, the Greeks or the French just would not take this s**t of less pay & double the work hours or else.....we'll just get the next fella to do it.

About the NAMA situation - to re-capitalise our banking system is the only way forward, otherwise people can't get business loans or you can't get money for anything. It might sound right wing, and I know it's not fair that taxpayers should have to pay for other people's greed & piggery for many years to come - but it's the only way. The Swede's put up with it in 1991 & by 1995 they were back in business. You didn't see them fleeing. No need to emigrate either coz of it. There should never be a need to emigrate, there's always a world of opportunity right here waiting to be discovered.