Dutch church orders inquiry into sex abuse allegations

m@cc@

Dutch religious leaders have ordered an independent inquiry into alleged sexual abuse of children by Catholic priests.

Earlier, the Vatican defended its response to child sex abuse allegations in a number of European states, saying it had reacted rapidly and decisively.
In the latest revelations, the head of an Austrian monastery confessed to abusing a boy more than 40 years ago.
Separately, Pope Benedict's brother said in an interview he slapped pupils in the face at a German choir school.
The Dutch investigation will be opened "as soon as possible", it was announced after Dutch bishops met to discuss abuse claims by about 200 alleged victims, some from several decades ago.
Monastery resignation
The Dutch Catholic Church offered its apologies to the victims: "To the victims of abuse in Catholic boarding schools, the religious leaders and bishops offer their deep-felt condolences and apologies," a statement said.
Allegations first centred on a school in the eastern Netherlands, with people saying they were abused by Catholic priests. This prompted dozens more alleged victims from other institutions to come forward in recent days.
It also emerged on Tuesday that the head of a Salzburg monastery, Bruno Becker, had offered his resignation on Monday after confessing to having abused a boy 40 years ago, when he was a monk.
Church authorities accepted his resignation immediately.
The German, Austrian, Irish and US churches have all been damaged by sexual abuse scandals, and suggestions that senior clergy covered up what was happening.

No 'culture of silence'

Earlier on Tuesday, a Vatican spokesman said in a statement the sexual abuse scandals were especially deplorable given the educational and moral responsibilities of the Catholic Church, but that the institutions in Germany, Austria and the Netherlands had shown that it wanted to be transparent.
"They have demonstrated their desire for transparency and, in a certain sense, accelerated the emergence of the problem by inviting victims to speak out, even when the cases involved date from many years ago," said Father Federico Lombardi.
"By doing so, they have approached the matter 'on the right foot', because the correct starting point is recognition of what happened and concern for the victims and the consequences of the acts committed against them."
He denied the Vatican had tried to erect a "wall of silence" around the scandals surfacing in many countries.
On Monday, the German justice minister said Vatican secrecy rules were complicating investigations of the cases.
Allegations of sexual abuse are being investigated in 18 of Germany's 27 Roman Catholic dioceses, where former students from a number of Catholic schools have alleged sexual abuse by teachers.
The worldwide media publicity given to the scandals has proved disconcerting to the Vatican, says the BBC's David Willey in Rome.
Papal link
It is doing its best to limit the moral damage caused to the church by stressing that paedophilia is a problem not limited to Catholic institutions and teachers, but which must be tackled in a broader context within civil society, our correspondent adds.
The Pope's own elder brother, Father Georg Ratzinger, admitted he slapped pupils in the face at the German school where he led the choir, but never beat them to an abusive extent.
"Pupils told me on concert trips about what went on. But it didn't dawn on me from their stories that I should do something. I was not aware of the extent of these brutal methods," he told the Passauer Neue Presse.
"At the start, I also slapped people in the face, but I always had a bad conscience," he said, adding he was relieved when corporal punishment was banned in 1980.
He denies any knowledge of sex abuse cases involving members of his choir.
Last week, the Regensburg Diocese said a former singer in a church choir that was run by Father Ratzinger from 1964-1993, had alleged there was abuse there in the early 1960s.

Have to commend the Dutch for this, it's long overdue but at least it doesn't take the state to initiate an investigation.


I love the quote from the Vatican

Vatican wrote:

They have demonstrated their desire for transparency and, in a certain sense, accelerated the emergence of the problem by inviting victims to speak out, even when the cases involved date from many years ago

Wtf does many years ago have to do with it? The people involved may still be alive.

Hyperbullet

Just keeps getting better for the Catholic church. The pope's brother has admitted to smacking kids in his care as well.

But does any of this come as any surprise to anyone?

TheZohanS

The Vatican and that ex Hitler Youth Pope are a joke at this stage, they should sack the entire administration and the police should investigate them.

Get it cleaned up once and for all.

I'm going to open a can of worms by asking people..

What is worse? Headshops or organised religion?

Mardy Bum

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm going to open a can of worms by asking people..

What is worse? Headshops or organised religion?

I have really gone by caring for either at this stage.

Outrage

Cue yet another outrage thread by a bunch of Church-haters.

AnonoBoy

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm going to open a can of worms by asking people..

What is worse? Headshops or organised religion?

I've never seen a headshop rape children for generations and cover it up so my answer is...........

AnonoBoy

Outrage wrote: »

Cue yet another outrage thread by a bunch of Church-haters.

Surely that's your department, no? Judging by your username that is.

TheZohanS

Outrage wrote: »

Cue yet another outrage thread by a bunch of Church-haters.

Well I don't hate the church but I do think that anyone responsible for abuse and covering up abuse should be brought to justice.

AnonoBoy wrote: »

I've never seen a headshop rape children for generations and cover it up so my answer is...........

A minority in the church, not all clergy. There are a lot of good people in the church that are completely innocent.

Headshops is an entirely different thread.

m@cc@

Outrage wrote: »

Cue yet another outrage thread by a bunch of Church-haters.

Cue another post from a church sympathiser, given all your previous posts at in church-related threads. If you don't like criticism of the church, the thread title was hardly ambigious.

Erren Music

Outrage wrote: »

Cue yet another outrage thread by a bunch of Church-haters.

Church haters?

Many decent catholic christian people are outraged too.

Sea Sharp

What's the chances the abusers were Irish priests?

m@cc@

Erren Music wrote: »

Church haters?

Many decent catholic christian people are outraged too.

I'll admit I'm a church hater. If you don't hate what the church has become and represents, as a Catholic there's something wrong with you.

AnonoBoy

TheZohan wrote: »

A minority in the church, not all clergy. There are a lot of good people in the church that are completely innocent.

True. But their superiors weren't the best now, were they?

m@cc@

TheZohan wrote: »

A minority in the church, not all clergy. There are a lot of good people in the church that are completely innocent.

Yeah, but it stands to reason where your referring to the church, you're not referring to individuals the same as if you were referring to the 'French' or the 'Muslims'.

TheZohanS

TheZohan wrote: »

The Vatican and that ex Hitler Youth Pope are a joke at this stage, they should sack the entire administration and the police should investigate them.

Get it cleaned up once and for all.

AnonoBoy wrote: »

True. But their superiors weren't the best now, were they?

No disagreement there, but the fact remains that there are still a lot of good clergy doing a decent job.

Copy of Pope cover-up file here. (1.7 MB file)

Erren Music

m@cc@ wrote: »

I'll admit I'm a church hater. If you don't hate what the church has become and represents, as a Catholic there's something wrong with you.

I was just making the point.

I am atheist.

I want the church gone and their lies exposed, I find it horrifying that they are still in control of our primary children.

m@cc@

Erren Music wrote: »

I was just making the point.

I am atheist.

I want the church gone and their lies exposed, I find it horrifying that they are still in control of our primary children.

To be honest, I don't want the church gone. I'd rather it got it's **** in order. I was an altar boy as a kid and I have the utmost respect for the priest in charge there. He is among the most honourable and generous people that I know. He is also quite outspoken about the church and the abuse, I feel I can talk to him as a human being without the veil of the 'church'.

I still think the church did do an excellent job at teaching young people about morality (when it works properly) and I would say along with my parents' influence, it went a long way towards shaping me. It's just a shame that those in power in the Vatican have shown it to be utter hypocrisy.

Erren Music

m@cc@ wrote: »

To be honest, I don't want the church gone. I'd rather it got it's **** in order. I was an altar boy as a kid and I have the utmost respect for the priest in charge there. He is among the most honourable and generous people that I know. He is also quite outspoken about the church and the abuse, I feel I can talk to him as a human being without the veil of the 'church'.

It's a pity it's not real then isn't it?
Any man who claims god told him to preach his word should be wearing a nice padded white jacket, and not allowed out to convert the rest of us.

The church is finished.

m@cc@ wrote: »

I still think the church did do an excellent job at teaching young people about morality

Thanks man, I laughed hard at this.

jimmycrackcorm

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm going to open a can of worms by asking people..

What is worse? Headshops or organised religion?

Well the difference is that after a few pills from a headshop someone will pop a pill and then think every tin of bachelors beans they open contains worms.

m@cc@

Erren Music wrote: »

Thanks man, I laughed hard at this.

Get off your soapbox. As I said afterwards, it's a shame it was hypocrisy.

TheZohanS

Erren Music wrote: »

I was just making the point.

I am atheist.

I want the church gone and their lies exposed, I find it horrifying that they are still in control of our primary children.

You're not athiest you're anti-theist.

An atheist doesn't believe in god/church/religion but they don't mind what others believe in, it simply doesn't matter.

m@cc@

TheZohan wrote: »

You're not athiest you're anti-theist.

An atheist doesn't believe in god/church/religion but they don't mind what others believe in, it simply doesn't matter.

That's the strange thing, athiesm is a theism in itself.

Galvasean

TheZohan wrote: »

You're not athiest you're anti-theist.

An atheist doesn't believe in god/church/religion but they don't mind what others believe in, it simply doesn't matter.

Anti-theists are a type of atheist though. Same way Catholics are a type of Christian.

m@cc@ wrote: »

That's the strange thing, athiesm is a theism in itself.

Eh.... no. Atheism is a lack of belief in God(s), where theism is a belief in God(s).

m@cc@

Galvasean wrote: »

Eh.... no. Atheism is a lack of belief in God(s), where theism is a belief in God(s).

Disregard. Carry on.

InTheTrees

Shouldnt this be in the Mythology forum?

m@cc@

InTheTrees wrote: »

Shouldnt this be in the Mythology forum?

No, the abuse is very real no matter where it was carried out.

TheZohanS

Galvasean wrote: »

Anti-theists are a type of atheist though. Same way Catholics are a type of Christian.

Not necessarily, an anti-theist might believe in a god but might be against that god. Therefore he wouldn't be an athiest.

InTheTrees

m@cc@ wrote: »

No, the abuse is very real no matter where it was carried out.

Agreed

El Siglo

I wonder how many disease would be cured, how many children wouldn't starve, how many wars might be avoided, how many people might be educated if the Roman Catholic Church were to donate it's collected wealth to charity? Wouldn't that be something, maybe Mr. Luther was on to something with his whole reformation business.;)

m@cc@

El Siglo wrote: »

maybe Mr. Luther was on to something with his whole reformation business.;)

I've been thinking that these past few weeks. He really was onto something.

El Siglo

m@cc@ wrote: »

I've been thinking that these past few weeks. He really was onto something.

What's gas about most RC's in this country is that most people don't really have a clue about RC doctrine, just no meat on good Friday, maybe knowing how to say the Rosary and that's about it and in actual fact are probably more Protestant than they know!:D

m@cc@

El Siglo wrote: »

What's gas about most RC's in this country is that most people don't really have a clue about RC doctrine, just no meat on good Friday, maybe knowing how to say the Rosary and that's about it and in actual fact are probably more Protestant than they know!:D

While we're at, more Jewish than they know since Christianity was originally a branch of Judaism.

El Siglo

m@cc@ wrote: »

While we're at, more Jewish than they know since Christianity was originally a branch of Judaism.

Yeh, too bad that whole righteousness thing was lost on Christianity, just that alone make Judaism cool!

brendansmith

Im sick of the Catholic church, Im gonna start worshipping the devil on a Sunday morning instead! :mad:

El Siglo

brendansmith wrote: »

Im sick of the Catholic church, Im gonna start worshipping the devil on a Sunday morning instead! :mad:

Just because one group of knobheads in dresses act like freaks doesn't mean having some sort of belief in God is totally ridiculous. Put it to you this way, I might have eaten a horrible hamburger from Supermacs, but that doesn't mean that eating all meat is going to taste as bad!:D Not all theists roll with the RC! Just like the Crips and the Bloods!:D

m@cc@

El Siglo wrote: »

Just because one group of knobheads in dresses act like freaks doesn't mean having some sort of belief in God is totally ridiculous. Put it to you this way, I might have eaten a horrible hamburger from Supermacs, but that doesn't mean that eating all meat is going to taste as bad!:D Not all theists roll with the RC! Just like the Crips and the Bloods!:D

Until a few years ago, I was unaware the the Christian, Jewish and Islamic God are actually the same entity. Makes you wonder what a lot of the fighting is about. Actually, I wonder about that anyway.

brendansmith

El Siglo wrote: »

I have eaten a horrible hamburger from Supermacs, but that doesn't mean that eating all meat is going to taste as bad!

Was it a mightymac?

El Siglo

brendansmith wrote: »

Was it a mightymac?

A fucking fish sandwich, must have been a week old, Jesus it nearly killed me! That's why I buy tuna steak from now on!;)

brendansmith

El Siglo wrote: »

A fucking fish sandwich, must have been a week old, Jesus it nearly killed me! That's why I buy tuna steak from now on!;)

El Siglo, please dont take this the wrong way but anyone who gets a fish sandwich from Supermacs deserves to die.


Hope this helps:)

El Siglo

brendansmith wrote: »

El Siglo, please dont take this the wrong way but anyone who gets a fish sandwich from Supermacs deserves to die.


Hope this helps:)

Why thank you, that's helped so much!;)

Erren Music

El Siglo wrote: »

I wonder how many disease would be cured, how many children wouldn't starve, how many wars might be avoided, how many people might be educated if the Roman Catholic Church were to donate it's collected wealth to charity? Wouldn't that be something, maybe Mr. Luther was on to something with his whole reformation business.;)

If only.

TheZohan wrote: »

You're not athiest you're anti-theist.

An atheist doesn't believe in god/church/religion but they don't mind what others believe in, it simply doesn't matter.

I do not mind what others believe. I have issues when this nonsense is taken seriously and my country is affected.

Our children are brainwashed with lies,
the government made political decisions because they were told too,
the gardai turned a blind eye to rape of children,

Perhaps the biggest issue is that the church were smart enough to involve itself into our lives, by officiating at our biggest celebrations, and at our saddest times.