If you're a BMW fan don't read(if you're a badge snob or BMW basher you'll love this)

Leonard Hofstadter

They're going front wheel wheel drive.

Makes a mockery of the ads proclaiming how "great" rear wheel drive is.

This must be even more nauseating for the purists who (until recently) were boasting about how "evil" turbocharging was and that M would never ever turbocharge their models.

The next Mini will have a BMW version as well. I expect badge snobs will be delighted. BMW bashers and Audi fans are going to be thrilled with the news though:D.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/248023/

Cookie_Monster

They're going front wheel wheel drive.

There's a red top headline if ever I saw it.

They're putting FWD or a ****ty entry level car, not everything, no big deal

pyramuid man

Well in fairness, it says an entry level model aimed below the 1 series. Hardly changing the whole range now are they?

Anan1

That's a non-story.

SV

lol, excellent

Cyrus

captainspeed wrote: »

They're going front wheel wheel drive.

Makes a mockery of the ads proclaiming how "great" rear wheel drive is.

This must be even more nauseating for the purists who (until recently) were boasting about how "evil" turbocharging was and that M would never ever turbocharge their models.

The next Mini will have a BMW version as well. I expect badge snobs will be delighted. BMW bashers and Audi fans are going to be thrilled with the news though:D.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/248023/

looks like it made your day anyway

dudara

I got as far as "entry-level, below 1-series" and tuned out.

neilthefunkeone

Old news.. This was first printed in December last year..

From Autocar last december:

“Nothing is concrete at this stage but discussions are on-going about whether or not BMW should break with the tradition of rear and four-wheel-drive cars,” said a BMW source. “For many in this company it is a taboo subject. But we have to be realistic with the targets we have set ourselves for fuel consumption and emissions, and they clearly favour a front-wheel-drive solution for 2018.”

They are basically gonna base a 1 series type FWD on the 2013 mini..

Yes this is huge news in the motoring industry... :rolleyes:

jhegarty

So the good cars will stay rwd, the ****ty entry level piece of crap will be fwd.

Don't think that's a turn around.

JHMEG

I thought BMW did the Mini to see if they could do fwd? That's what I read at the time anyway.

daveharnett

LIGHTNING wrote: »

I have never seen a BMW advert saying "our cars are great because they are RWD".

The marketing department may have to backpedal a little.

smash

1 car... not exactly the end of the world is it?

GTE

steve06 wrote: »

1 car... not exactly the end of the world is it?

Tis the beginning of the end haha

JHMEG

LIGHTNING wrote: »

I have never seen a BMW advert saying "our cars are great because they are RWD".

They did run an advertising campaign about a year ago to that effect.

rabbitinlights

Tea 1000

Still doesn't change the fact that the A4 is sterile to drive, so I dunno why Audi fans will be so delighted.

T-Maxx

The thread title clearly states that BMW fanboys should not to read it.

Seems like a lot of them can't read either.:pac:

Big Nasty

T-Maxx wrote: »

The thread title clearly states that BMW fanboys should not to read it.

Seems like a lot of them can't read either.:pac:

That's a bit like saying 'don't push this button' to a kid in fairness!

I'm kinda sorry to hear they are doing this but I can understand why.

Leonard Hofstadter

Quoted from another forum:

"BMW and Aston Martin are in a race to see who can destroy their brand image the fastest. They're both winning."

If this is a non story then I don't know what is a story in these forums:D!

BMW already has a premium supermini, it's called the Mini, and they're making that with 5 doors soon, so why would they have 2 premium supermini's for? How does that make sense?

Here are other ads boasting about why FWD is "bad":




the text in both says "that's why we don't have front wheel drive".

munchkin_utd

captainspeed wrote: »

Quoted from another forum:

"BMW and Aston Martin are in a race to see who can destroy their brand image the fastest. They're both winning."

If this is a non story then I don't know what is a story in these forums:D!

BMW already has a premium supermini, it's called the Mini, and they're making that with 5 doors soon, so why would they have 2 premium supermini's for? How does that make sense?

it does make sense.
Currently BMW has a wide range of rear wheel drive cars which can share engines transmission parts etc.
Parallel to this they have ONE solitary front wheel drive car in addition to this, the mini.
Its got a completely separate engine setup, so whatever they develop there is an investment purely for the mini (and ok, some PSA yokes too). By bringing in a second front wheel drive vehicle, they are getting more sales and value out of minimal extra development costs.

There was some squeeks last year from analyists that mini was a drain on BMW because it was their only front wheel drive product, and that something had to be done.
Maybe this is the something!

neilthefunkeone

munchkin_utd wrote: »

it does make sense.
Currently BMW has a wide range of rear wheel drive cars which can share engines transmission parts etc.
Parallel to this they have ONE solitary front wheel drive car in addition to this, the mini.
Its got a completely separate engine setup, so whatever they develop there is an investment purely for the mini (and ok, some PSA yokes too). By bringing in a second front wheel drive vehicle, they are getting more sales and value out of minimal extra development costs.

There was some squeeks last year from analyists that mini was a drain on BMW because it was their only front wheel drive product, and that something had to be done.
Maybe this is the something!

As above.. They are going to base this entry model(if they do it) on the 2013 mini.. So its gonna be years away and its just gonna be a second mini to take more share of the small car market..

Leonard Hofstadter

munchkin_utd wrote: »

Its got a completely separate engine setup, so whatever they develop there is an investment purely for the mini (and ok, some PSA yokes too). By bringing in a second front wheel drive vehicle, they are getting more sales and value out of minimal extra development costs.

But what's stopping BMW from using the engines in the Mini for the 1 series or 3 series? BMW is going down the turbocharging route so I can't see why BMW doesn't use the 1.6 turbo instead of the 2.0 non turbo used in the 1 and 3 series. The engine was designed by BMW(Peugeot were responsible for sourcing the parts for it but the design was done by BMW).
In fact considering how rubbish their current 2.0 petrol is and how good the 1.6 is in this regard(there are a couple of minor problems with these engines but overall they are very good) I think it would be a great idea if BMW put this 1.6 turbo into their own branded cars.

There is no reason why this cannot be done, unless BMW thinks that using the same engines as the Mini would "dilute" their own brand, which clearly doesn't stand up to any reason if they're going basing a car for themselves on the Mini.

munchkin_utd wrote: »

There was some squeeks last year from analyists that mini was a drain on BMW because it was their only front wheel drive product, and that something had to be done.
Maybe this is the something!

The problem with this argument is that Mini has been enormously successful for BMW in terms of sales and even if it wasn't that successful in terms of profits(AFAIK it has been very profitable for BMW, it's hardly a coincidence that BMW kept Mini and got rid of all the Rover rubbish) or economies of scale why are they constantly expanding the Mini lineup?

There is a new Countryman model coming, and they are talking about a Mini Roadster as well, so that should clearly boost the economies of scale.
this is why I cannot see any place for something with a BMW badge below the 1 series - the Mini is their premium supermini.

The other thing is that one of the reasons why BMW kept Mini is because they wanted a premium small car(and who can blame them when you see how successful the Mini still is) but couldn't live with the "shame" of making their own FWD car - Mini allowed them to have the premium small car and allow the BMW brand stick with RWD cars.

The only other thing I can think of is that BMW does own the Riley and Triumph brands - maybe their new premium small car will feature one of these badges?

znv6i3h7kqf9ys

My wife drives a mini and I drive an M3. I can't see this being a big deal as the fwd mini is far better around town than the M3. Why would they make a small town car with an underpowered engine with RWD if they could make a better car for the purpose with FWD? AZ Ze Germans vud say, it makez no senz. RWD would be wasted on a car like that. As for Audi drivers being happy for this, let them have some joy. After all they need it when all they drive are SKODA's with shiney bits.

Shane732

Miracle Tinkling Pane wrote: »

My wife drives a mini and I drive an M3. I can't see this being a big deal as the fwd mini is far better around town than the M3. Why would they make a small town car with an underpowered engine with RWD if they could make a better car for the purpose with FWD? AZ Ze Germans vud say, it makez no senz. RWD would be wasted on a car like that. As for Audi drivers being happy for this, let them have some joy. After all they need it when all they drive are SKODA's with shiney bits.

Most of them don't even have shiny bits as they won't pay the extra few quid to go S-line!

Audi the poor mans Merc
Merc the poor mans BMW

znv6i3h7kqf9ys

Shane732 wrote: »

Most of them don't even have shiny bits as they won't pay the extra few quid to go S-line!

Audi the poor mans Merc
Merc the poor mans BMW

I'd put the Accord ahead of Audi (A4)there. Audi = Stupid mans Skoda

Big Nasty

IBTL!:p

robtri

Shane732 wrote: »

Most of them don't even have shiny bits as they won't pay the extra few quid to go S-line!

Audi the poor mans Merc
Merc the poor mans BMW

I would hardly say the mercs are poor mans BMW....

more like..... BMW are the poor mans Merc...

Considering there are more mercs priced higher than bmws as standard productions cars... and that from an owners point of view according to the 2009 JD power survey in the UK... owners rate the merc better than the BMW...


I think the issue here is not that the new FWD BMW will be crap or good...
it is that in the past BMW have prided themsleves on building only RWD production cars and brag about this in their ads....
then decide to produce a FWD car.... seems a bit hpocritical consider their stance on only building RWD cars under the BMW brand....

JHMEG

Shane732 wrote: »

Merc the poor mans BMW

So Irish govt ministers are all riding around in Mercs to save money then. And here I was thinking they were all wasters...

JHMEG

captainspeed wrote: »

"BMW and Aston Martin are in a race to see who can destroy their brand image the fastest. They're both winning."

That is worrying. What are the Aston doing?

alias no.9

JHMEG wrote: »

That is worrying. What are the Aston doing?

If it looks like a Toyota IQ, that's because it is one.