Paddy Wallace Appreciation Thread

junior joo

Just thought I'd start a new thread on Paddy Wallace, as I think he's a much under-rated player who often gets a bit of a hard time. Great pair of hands, very skillful and thought he did very well when he came on against Italy. Not so good against France I know but no one was. One of the many differences between Ireland last year and in previous years was that he got a lot more game time, and I thought we were the better for it.

Anyway had a thought a while ago, confirmed by Matt Williams in an IT article the day of the England game. He provides cover at outhalf and centre. The problem against France was that he was on the bench with Sexton, which as we know left us exposed in terms of back three cover. I think that regardless of whether Sexton or O'Gara start at outhalf (and don't want to get into that debate here), then the other should be out of the match 22. Then Wallace is on the bench along with a replacement scrum half and someone to cover wings/fullback. A bit of a gamble I know and it mightn't always work (e.g. against someone like the All Blacks/ South Africa) as he's not the biggest and seems to be unlucky with injuries but should certainly be an option now against Wales and Scotland.

Any thoughts or is this madness ?

A2LUE42

junior joo wrote: »

Just thought I'd start a new thread on Paddy Wallace, as I think he's a much under-rated player who often gets a bit of a hard time. Great pair of hands, very skillful and thought he did very well when he came on against Italy. Not so good against France I know but no one was. One of the many differences between Ireland last year and in previous years was that he got a lot more game time, and I thought we were the better for it.

Anyway had a thought a while ago, confirmed by Matt Williams in an IT article the day of the England game. He provides cover at outhalf and centre. The problem against France was that he was on the bench with Sexton, which as we know left us exposed in terms of back three cover. I think that regardless of whether Sexton or O'Gara start at outhalf (and don't want to get into that debate here), then the other should be out of the match 22. Then Wallace is on the bench along with a replacement scrum half and someone to cover wings/fullback. A bit of a gamble I know and it mightn't always work (e.g. against someone like the All Blacks/ South Africa) as he's not the biggest and seems to be unlucky with injuries but should certainly be an option now against Wales and Scotland.

Any thoughts or is this madness ?

I was thinking the same the last day, but then O'Gara was brought on to close the game out.
It's a risk either way, if you have so few replacements for 9-15. But unless O'Leary is injured, he can move to cover wing. We have also seen him cover 10 for Munster, and also for Ireland while O'Gara was in the Sin Bin.

But what it comes down to is, if your out half is injured in the first few minutes of a game, who do you have as cover. It will only ever be an issue if it goes badly wrong.

Tim Robbins

junior joo wrote: »

Any thoughts or is this madness ?

His confidence took major dents as he never seem to get a decent chance at 10. Either behind Humphries or ROG. I think he is one of those players who played in several positions (he also played FB) and it wasn't great for him.

Too much time on the bench can't be great.

Deedsie

Good player alright. He is very unlucky not to be in the team. Its up to himself though to oust Darcy like Sexton has with Rog.

janifor

Nice I am also a fan of his sports.

danthefan

Outside of 9/10, there is no room on the bench for a guy who only plays one positition (and Wallace only plays one position, he's nowhere near good enough to play 10 for Ireland). He starts or he's out imo, D'Arcy is playing well so Wallace is out. Unfortunate on the guy but that's the way it is, Horgan is in a similar position.

Amazotheamazing

Wallace was cursed with injuries at the start of his career, that and being played at fullback for no obvious reason, he's done well to turn his career around tbh.

thomond2006

A2LUE42 wrote: »

I was thinking the same the last day, but then O'Gara was brought on to close the game out.
.

I bet that's why Kidney went for ROG over the more versatile Wallace.

For all Wallace's talents, he could not have made the impact that ROG made on that game.

thebaz

Sorry OP, but for me Paddy is a fine / good interpro - but struggles to make the jump up to International level that we as an Irish team are trying to make - nothing wrong with that, most of us would gladly settle for paddy's achievement , but rugby is like a pyramid all the way to the top , he lacks the strength for an international centre or the guile of O'gara

crisco10

A2LUE42 wrote: »

I was thinking the same the last day, but then O'Gara was brought on to close the game out.
It's a risk either way, if you have so few replacements for 9-15. But unless O'Leary is injured, he can move to cover wing. We have also seen him cover 10 for Munster, and also for Ireland while O'Gara was in the Sin Bin.

But what it comes down to is, if your out half is injured in the first few minutes of a game, who do you have as cover. It will only ever be an issue if it goes badly wrong.

In paris D'arcy shifted to wing and TO'L stayed at 9....Thnk I prefer your way though.

back OT, Paddy Wallace is good but he just seems to get injured a lot. which is a bit annoying after awhile..harsh but true.

Brewster

Fantantic player.. Will keep D'Arcy on his toes. If D'Arcy's form dips, then Paddy is an automatic starter at 12. The guy is an international standard player, no doubt about it. His career has not been managed to the best it could have been in my opinion. It is only in recent times that he got a settled position at 12 with Ulster and I think this has cost him more caps. He will be very much part of squad right up to NZ next year. He is obviously a different player to Darce, but a wonderful player all the same.

durkadurka

I just don't think he's big or tough enough for international rugby. He always seems to get the lard beaten out of him.

toomevara

Lovely player, suffers a bit from 'utility syndrome'. Provides one of the best quotes from Ireland's Grandslam book (just before the England game in Croker):

When 'God Save the Queen' was about to start, I was standing beside David Wallace and I leaned across and said, "Wally would you mind if I sang along to this?"

Love it.

outwest

the thing is he will get another chance,
if darce form slips or he gets injured( possible the man just puts his body on line in so many tackles) then wallace is back,

kidney drops player who play bad and wont throw a player back in if their back form an injury, look at kearny only on bench,

wallace is a fine players,

murphym7

I'll get killed for this but I don't care, tear my post to bit's lad's.:)

I have never rated the man - ever. Paddy has always been a poor replacement at 10 for Ireland. It was never his fault, this is not his position, we had no one ese. He is a fair centre for Ulster but fair is as much as I can stretch it. Yes I know he has done well in Eurpoe this year but is he really an international level centre? No I say. So if he is not an international centre or 10 why is his name still showing in squad lists? Sorry if you don't agree, its just my opinion.

Redsock

What is often forgotten about Paddy is that he was the star of Irelands under 20 World cup win. The guy always had talent but he shouldve left Ulster when Humph' was first choice 10. He is a 10 but never got the chance to learn it when it mattered. I think a lack of ambition has resulted in him not fulfilling his early promise whereas the same cannot be said for his teammate in that world cup win, BOD.

TitoPuente

murphym7 wrote: »

I have never rated the man - ever. Paddy has always been a poor replacement at 10 for Ireland. It was never his fault, this is not his position, we had no one ese. He is a fair centre for Ulster but fair is as much as I can stretch it. Yes I know he has done well in Eurpoe this year but is he really an international level centre? No I say. So if he is not an international centre or 10 why is his name still showing in squad lists? Sorry if you don't agree, its just my opinion.

Agreed. I have to say, I've never rated him. He's played some good rugby for Ireland and Ulster but, by and large, he's just not at the level that I'd expect from a modern 12. Lucky for him that Darce is so erratic and somewhat injury prone.

I'm not writing him off completely... he is a good play maker and I actually think he's getting better in terms of his handling skills. I just don't think he's progressed quickly or far enough to justify a place on the squad.

Hippo

Yep, he's often pretty good at a level just below international level. And that's it.

Paddy Wallace wont ever score the same kind of trys that D'Arcy or O'Driscoll will, but he brings so much other parts to the game that a lot of people may miss.

Where Wallace excels is in picking lines that open gaps for other players, he is a grafter, he will make the space for the guy outside him to hit the line and put the ball in their hands at exactly the right moment.

I think his reading of the game and organisational play are excellent too. He adds a different dynamic than D'Arcy in this regard.

When they're both in flying form, we are blessed, as we have two inside centre's with different skill sets available to us. Wallace is underrated imo. I think a pairing of him at 12 and D'Arcy at 13 whenever O'Driscoll needs a rest (seemingly and hopefully never!) would be an excellent prospect.

anonymous_joe

He reminds me of Paul Scholes (hero ) in an odd way - were Paddy Wallace bigger and faster, he probably would be one of the world's best. As it is, he's not. He'll always be very good, but never truly brilliant.

Madworld

Agree with Joe. He is a good player but at 12st10 he is just too small for an international centre.

Brewster

TitoPuente wrote: »

Agreed. I have to say, I've never rated him. He's played some good rugby for Ireland and Ulster but, by and large, he's just not at the level that I'd expect from a modern 12. Lucky for him that Darce is so erratic and somewhat injury prone.

I'm not writing him off completely... he is a good play maker and I actually think he's getting better in terms of his handling skills. I just don't think he's progressed quickly or far enough to justify a place on the squad.

His handling is getting better?!??! His handling is one of his main strengths and the reason why he has featured for Ireland! His hands are as good as anything in Irish rugby and yes I include BOD in this!

Wheeker

murphym7 wrote: »

I'll get killed for this but I don't care, tear my post to bit's lad's.:)

I have never rated the man - ever. Paddy has always been a poor replacement at 10 for Ireland. It was never his fault, this is not his position, we had no one ese. He is a fair centre for Ulster but fair is as much as I can stretch it. Yes I know he has done well in Eurpoe this year but is he really an international level centre? No I say. So if he is not an international centre or 10 why is his name still showing in squad lists? Sorry if you don't agree, its just my opinion.

Sorry- don't agree. Yes, Paddy has suffered from being moved around positionally (Full-back for Ulster a few seasons ago!) & could be considered a "confidence player" (who isn't?). However I think the last couple of seasons he has really started to show his class.

I concede that due to lack of gametime @ 10 he will probably never be considered as a long-term option as the Irish Out-half. However, just think- where would Johnny Sexton be now if a certain Felipe Contepomi hadn't got injured last season? The only opprtunity Paddy has had @ 10 in an Ireland jersey v Pacific Islands he was flawless & MOTM.

IMHO he is very definitely an International class inside-centre. Those who question his physicality need to look back at NZ v Ire in 2008 when he easily dealt with Nonu. He brings a lot of extra attributes to a backline with his distribution & kicking. IMHO D'Arcy is a one-dimensional player who, although his twinkletoes can create breaks, always seems to play with blinkers on, ignoring what's outside him. Even his much lauded try v France last season- he had 2 players outside him, if he hadn't scored he would have been villified! Don't get me wrong now, D'Arcy is still a very good player & is in good form at present. But for me Wallace gives more scope for Ireland @ 12.

Brewster

Wheeker wrote: »

Sorry- don't agree. Yes, Paddy has suffered from being moved around positionally (Full-back for Ulster a few seasons ago!) & could be considered a "confidence player" (who isn't?). However I think the last couple of seasons he has really started to show his class.

I concede that due to lack of gametime @ 10 he will probably never be considered as a long-term option as the Irish Out-half. However, just think- where would Johnny Sexton be now if a certain Felipe Contepomi hadn't got injured last season? The only opprtunity Paddy has had @ 10 in an Ireland jersey v Pacific Islands he was flawless & MOTM.

IMHO he is very definitely an International class inside-centre. Those who question his physicality need to look back at NZ v Ire in 2008 when he easily dealt with Nonu. He brings a lot of extra attributes to a backline with his distribution & kicking. IMHO D'Arcy is a one-dimensional player who, although his twinkletoes can create breaks, always seems to play with blinkers on, ignoring what's outside him. Even his much lauded try v France last season- he had 2 players outside him, if he hadn't scored he would have been villified! Don't get me wrong now, D'Arcy is still a very good player & is in good form at present. But for me Wallace gives more scope for Ireland @ 12.

Thing is, both Darcy and Wallace are good enough for Ireland. We have a terrible tendancy in Irish rugby to back our horse and then run down the other horse by targeting their weaknesses!!! ROG/Sexton debate???! Both Wallace and DArcy are international standard players. Anyone who says otherwise doesn't fully appreciate the game of rugby in all in facets!

yoursaviour1989

I think Wallace is a fantastic player. He was unlucky under EOS to be back-up 10 and was never given any game time, even in matches that Ireland were winning easily. He's a different type of player to Darcy in that he's more creative and a better distributor. I wouldn't start him alongside Sexton as but alongside O'Gara, who isn't the most creative OH, he could add something extra to the team.

twinytwo

thomond2006 wrote: »

I bet that's why Kidney went for ROG over the more versatile Wallace.

For all Wallace's talents, he could not have made the impact that ROG made on that game.

but we got away with murder.. drico went off and earls went to 13 with trimble on the wing. Luckly for us darcy stayed on. if he or any of the backs had to be taken off after that we would have been neck high in ****. because either rog or sexton would have had to play 12 etc

twinytwo

twinytwo wrote: »

but we got away with murder.. drico went off and earls went to 13 with trimble on the wing. Luckly for us darcy stayed on. if he or any of the backs had to be taken off after that we would have been neck high in ****. because either rog or sexton would have had to play 12 etc

Its always going to be a tough call, do we want versatility or guile on the bench. And I feel that different games will demand different situations.

However, if the situation you describe above had come about, I don't think Sexton would be a terrible 12. We would have to change our gameplan a bit, but I hope that the team would be confident enough in their abilities not to drop the level.

SomeFool

Redsock wrote: »

The guy always had talent but he shouldve left Ulster when Humph' was first choice 10. He is a 10 but never got the chance to learn it when it mattered. I think a lack of ambition has resulted in him not fulfilling his early promise whereas the same cannot be said for his teammate in that world cup win, BOD.

He had a move lined up to Castres lined up a few years ago but Ulster rugby wouldn't release him from his contract IIRC.

murphym7

Wheeker wrote: »

Sorry- don't agree. Yes, Paddy has suffered from being moved around positionally (Full-back for Ulster a few seasons ago!) & could be considered a "confidence player" (who isn't?). However I think the last couple of seasons he has really started to show his class.

I concede that due to lack of gametime @ 10 he will probably never be considered as a long-term option as the Irish Out-half. However, just think- where would Johnny Sexton be now if a certain Felipe Contepomi hadn't got injured last season? The only opprtunity Paddy has had @ 10 in an Ireland jersey v Pacific Islands he was flawless & MOTM.

IMHO he is very definitely an International class inside-centre. Those who question his physicality need to look back at NZ v Ire in 2008 when he easily dealt with Nonu. He brings a lot of extra attributes to a backline with his distribution & kicking. IMHO D'Arcy is a one-dimensional player who, although his twinkletoes can create breaks, always seems to play with blinkers on, ignoring what's outside him. Even his much lauded try v France last season- he had 2 players outside him, if he hadn't scored he would have been villified! Don't get me wrong now, D'Arcy is still a very good player & is in good form at present. But for me Wallace gives more scope for Ireland @ 12.

I have to disagree with the highlighted piece - Mr Sexton was always going to break through, does not matter a jot about what Mr. Conterpomi did, injured or not. That young fella is a bit of class.

Podge_irl

Wheeker wrote: »

However, just think- where would Johnny Sexton be now if a certain Felipe Contepomi hadn't got injured last season?

Probably exactly where he is now.

Wallace is not an international standard 10 and I don't think he ever would have been no matter what happened. He's an excellent inside centre though and it's a shame he didn't play more regularly there earlier.

wixfjord

murphym7 wrote: »

I have to disagree with the highlighted piece - Mr Sexton was always going to break through, does not matter a jot about what Mr. Conterpomi did, injured or not. That young fella is a bit of class.

Absolutely not. Sexton was having a poor enough season prior to that and had capitulated against Castres away. There was talk of him going to France, and there was consternation amongst the fans about who would replace Conters.

Personally I never ever rated Conters as a 10, and we are now a much much better balanced side.

danthefan

wixfjord wrote: »

Absolutely not. Sexton was having a poor enough season prior to that and had capitulated against Castres away. There was talk of him going to France, and there was consternation amongst the fans about who would replace Conters.

Personally I never ever rated Conters as a 10, and we are now a much much better balanced side.

If by the bolded bit you mean he'd brought us to half time having made and scored a try with Leinster looking comfortable only to be hauled off at half time for a half fit Contepomi who played ****e and missed a rake of kicks, then yes, he capitulated against Castres away.

I guarantee you if Sexton stayed on we'd have won that game.

murphym7

wixfjord wrote: »

Absolutely not. Sexton was having a poor enough season prior to that and had capitulated against Castres away. There was talk of him going to France, and there was consternation amongst the fans about who would replace Conters.

Personally I never ever rated Conters as a 10, and we are now a much much better balanced side.

And what would have happend if he went to France (which was never going to happen)? Would he have played crap or would he have come up to the standard he is now? He is 24 - just getting into his stide.

Podge_irl

wixfjord wrote: »

Absolutely not. Sexton was having a poor enough season prior to that and had capitulated against Castres away. There was talk of him going to France, and there was consternation amongst the fans about who would replace Conters.

Sexton was already signed on for the following year as Leinster's only fly half at that point I believe - we are talking about events in May here.

Anyway, I don't want to turn this somehow into a Sexton thread, my point is more just that it wasn't one small turn of fate that stopped Wallace from being as good. Wallace just doesn't have the skillset to be an international 10, and can be ropey enough there at provincial level. He's a far better player at 12 (in fact, you could almost make some comparisons between him and Conters in that regard. I never liked Conters at 10 because Leinster always lacked control in that scenario).

siltirocker

I don't know about the Castres comments. If i remember correctly it was the last time i remember Thornley saying something negative about a player. Dr. Phil missed sh1t loads when he came on. Not saying Sexton was great in that game, infact he was quite poor but 7 points were produced by him with limited chances.

I do have to agree with wixjford with the rest or are people's memories being selective. Sexton was not playing well till maybe mid January last year and their were calls for a Contepomi superstar replacement, bringing Keatley back, Nacewa at 10, etc in heavy rotation. Delighted none of these were needed though, quality player. He's like Michalak without the stupidity and dodginess imo.

danthefan

Against Castres we scored 12 points with Sexton on and 3 points with Contepomi on. It isn't rocket science to figure out who was more responsible for the loss. He was treated very badly by Cheika around that time imo.

thomond2006

I rate Wallace highly, he will never be a 10 though. Having said that, EOS should have given him better opportunity instead of 5-10 minute periods off the bench.

thehighground

thomond2006 wrote: »

I rate Wallace highly, he will never be a 10 though. Having said that, EOS should have given him better opportunity instead of 5-10 minute periods off the bench.

Wallace couldn't get a game ahead of a 36 year old David Humphreys in Ulster at 10. Even Niall O'Connor was ahead of him in Ulster (prior to Ian Humphreys return from Leicesgter). I'm very glad that EOS didn't give him more than 5 minutes at international level.

Wallace is a good inside centre - but I think his lack of physicality goes against him, particularly at international level. All backs need to have the same physicality now of a backrower (a lot of the praise BOD gets is that he is physical enough to play in the backrow).