Scrappage victims

Stevie Dakota

Was at Renault Liffey valley over the weekend, and lined up in the lot were cars ready for scrapping. Most where no loss, old Escorts, and junk, but in the middle was a 1995 E class coupe, didn't have time for a close look but bodywork looked really sound and the car just looked great, can't believe it's going to be crushed.

Anan1

I'd be surprised if a facelift W124 wasn't rusty, TBH. Now if you told me it was a 320CE i'd be upset.;)

robtri

awful shame alright...

Does it have to be crushed?? can you not take it off there hands??? or do they have to crush it to meet the terms of the scrappage scheme??

Dancor

I know a dealer who is now scrapping alot of decent cars that would be perfect for learners etc. The other day I seen a 99' Micra he had to scrap, spotless inside and out and only 29,000 miles on the clock. A real shame.

People are also forgetting to use up petrol before scrapping them too. He has about 100 litres at the moment.

Saab Ed

This week I've killed a 97 Citroen ZX, a 00 Toyota Corolla and worst of all a 00 Opel Astra with only 31,000 miles on it :eek: .

BennyBlanko

Saab Ed wrote: »

This week I've killed a 97 Citroen ZX, a 00 Toyota Corolla and worst of all a 00 Opel Astra with only 31,000 miles on it :eek: .

Good!:D

VolvoMan

Saab Ed wrote: »

This week I've killed a 97 Citroen ZX, a 00 Toyota Corolla and worst of all a 00 Opel Astra with only 31,000 miles on it :eek: .

You didn't exactly have to though either, did you? I'm not sure about the first two, but it's scandalous seeing a car with that mileage meet its maker.

pburns

VolvoMan wrote: »

You didn't exactly have to though either, did you? I'm not sure about the first two, but it's scandalous seeing a car with that mileage meet its maker.

Yep. Re-use/Re-cycle me arse. I have a friend buying a new Panda for the run to the train station. At < €7grand under scrappage it's a no-brainer. In fairness what he's scrapping is pretty crap but another friend who has NEVER considered buying new before did almost chop his beautifully maintained C-class for a Kia C'eed. Sanity prevailed...

However perfectly servicable cars being sent to thje crusher so the SIMI can send money to Japan, Germany and (increasingly) Korea.

Is it worth it to keep people in jobs? Is the current upturn sustainable when the scheme ends?

Guy:Incognito

pburns wrote: »

Yep. Re-use/Re-cycle me arse. I have a friend buying a new Panda for the run to the train station. At < €7grand under scrappage it's a no-brainer. In fairness what he's scrapping is pretty crap but another friend who has NEVER considered buying new before did almost chop his beautifully maintained C-class for a Kia C'eed. Sanity prevailed...

However perfectly servicable cars being sent to thje crusher so the SIMI can send money to Japan, Germany and (increasingly) Korea.

Is it worth it to keep people in jobs? Is the current upturn sustainable when the scheme ends?

What abou the fatc that people like having new cars? If I could afford to I'd buy a new car every couple of years or so.

All this outrage is just silly.Where are the people giving o0ut about all the new LCD tv's being bought or bemoaning people upgrading their phone? People want and like new stuff, leave them to it.


If you want to save old cars, camp outside a dealer and buy them for €1500 each as the onwers head in to scrap them.

dirtydiesel

Stekelly wrote: »

If you want to save old cars, camp outside a dealer and buy them for €1500 each as the onwers head in to scrap them.

:D

daveharnett

Stekelly wrote: »

What abou the fatc that people like having new cars? If I could afford to I'd buy a new car every couple of years or so.

All this outrage is just silly.Where are the people giving o0ut about all the new LCD tv's being bought or bemoaning people upgrading their phone? People want and like new stuff, leave them to it.

People don't throw out old TVs to buy manifestly inferior new TVs.

VolvoMan

Stekelly wrote: »

What abou the fatc that people like having new cars? If I could afford to I'd buy a new car every couple of years or so.

All this outrage is just silly.Where are the people giving o0ut about all the new LCD tv's being bought or bemoaning people upgrading their phone? People want and like new stuff, leave them to it.


If you want to save old cars, camp outside a dealer and buy them for €1500 each as the onwers head in to scrap them.

Would the fact that Renault have used this scheme as a redeeming factor for people to buy their cars have anything to do with this I wonder?

daveharnett

daveharnett wrote: »

People don't throw out old TVs to buy manifestly inferior new TVs.

very true, after a couple of months in the new yoke many will realise the thing they scrapped was fine, lets not forget there are total heaps being scrapped too. Still good to see a bit of activity in the new car trade too.

Saab Ed

pburns wrote: »

Yep. Re-use/Re-cycle me arse. I have a friend buying a new Panda for the run to the train station. At < €7grand under scrappage it's a no-brainer. In fairness what he's scrapping is pretty crap but another friend who has NEVER considered buying new before did almost chop his beautifully maintained C-class for a Kia C'eed. Sanity prevailed...

However perfectly servicable cars being sent to thje crusher so the SIMI can send money to Japan, Germany and (increasingly) Korea.

Is it worth it to keep people in jobs? Is the current upturn sustainable when the scheme ends?

Just a couple of things about the above statement.

1) We dont have much of a manufacturing industry of any sort in Ireland and as I've been told on many an occasion here , no motor industry at all. On that basis its kinda hard to buy any car from anywhere without sending our money out to foreign countries.

2) IMO the decent thing to do is to buy a European car. I could start a whole different debate here on that one but atleast this way our taxes stay within European borders ( and end up back here as Nama money )

3) I for one am bloody glad its keeping me in a job. Maybe some of my taxes will go some way to paying public sector expenditure this year while my profits will be spent in the local shops and shared with others.

PS ~ Every car I've sold so far this year is either a category A or B car so in theory reducing C02 emissions long term. Aswell as that, all of the re-usable parts from the scrappage cars are sold on as spares to keep older cars on the road and the remaining metal is melted down and re-used in other applications, you never know you might just be drinking beer outta one of my trade ins this weekend . Now whats wrong with that. :cool:

PPS ~ Some people might say that trading a C-Class for a Kia is an improvment ( only joking )

Erren Music

Saab Ed wrote: »

PS ~ Every car I've sold so far this year is either a category A or B car so in theory reducing C02 emissions long term. Aswell as that, all of the re-usable parts from the scrappage cars are sold on as spares to keep older cars on the road and the remaining metal is melted down and re-used in other applications, you never know you might just be drinking beer outta one of my trade ins this weekend . Now whats wrong with that. :cool:

PPS ~ Some people might say that trading a C-Class for a Kia is an improvment ( only joking )

Whats going to happen though when in 5 years a large % of all cars are band B or A. The gov have not factored in the longterm tax loss of new 5 series and E class cars. At what point will they change the tax on larger cars back to 600+ a year.

Much like the levies they shall recoup whatever they want however they want

L1011

Saab Ed wrote: »

1) We dont have much of a manufacturing industry of any sort in Ireland

We do. Drugs and weapons.




(OK, legit pharmaceuticals and a rake of "dual use" stuff that happens to be graded for use in weaponry but often isn't. Although we do make fairly decent armored personel carriers...)

Manufacturing in Ireland, mmmm..... Pfizer (+Wyeth), Stryker, Depuy, Centacor, Genzyme, Schering Plough, Merck Sharp & Dome, Boston Scientific, Gillead, Cregana, Metronic, GSK etc etc. Where do people think all the science and engineering graduates work ? They weren't all civil engineers :rolleyes: Also plenty of places making and exporting plastic products etc. A place in Limerick makes the balls used in roll on deodarants Feck loads of stuff is made in Ireland. Still quite a bit of automotive stuff made here too.

Admittedly I reckon many of the above won't be here in 15/20 years time or less in many quite a few cases.

Saab Ed

RoverJames wrote: »

Manufacturing in Ireland, mmmm..... Pfizer (+Wyeth), Stryker, Depuy, Centacor, Genzyme, Schering Plough, Merck Sharp & Dome, Boston Scientific, Gillead, Cregana, Metronic, GSK etc etc. Where do people think all the science and engineering graduates work ? They weren't all civil engineers :rolleyes: Also plenty of places making and exporting plastic products etc. A place in Limerick makes the balls used in roll on deodarants Feck loads of stuff is made in Ireland. Still quite a bit of automotive stuff made here too.
.

Now Im not arguing for the hell of it here but if all of the above companies employ 2000 people ( which all of them dont ) then thats 14,000 jobs. I dont think the Chinese will be sh1tting themselves at that statistic I do take your point though but we're not exactly a manufacturing power house either.

When someone buys a car here not all of the money leaves the country. You have VAT, VRT, Income tax and PRSI paid by various people employed in Ireland along the line to get the car from port to customer. Lets not also forget that if we buy European cars ,in essence the money isnt going anywhere at all.

cormie

Saab, is there something stopping you from keeping the 00 astra, looking on gumtree, buying heap of ****e for 300 quid, scrapping THAT and then keeping the astra (and giving me the rims if they suit the bill) ?

Smoggy

I think the banger must be in your name for 18 months

cormie

Wonder why that is? Would it not make more sense to get all the banger bangers off the road, give a few bob to those selling it, keep the better cars on the road etc. You could even have a Used Scrappage system where someone selling his absolute banger can visit car dealers, look at the cars ready for the crusher and choose to do a straight swap or pay some kind of price to dealer. Again, more money going around, less bangers on the road, better for environment and safety.

Max_Damage

Christ, I hate this ignorant Irish attitude that if a car is old, it's a 'banger' (and I hate that word in itself). Plenty of good cars are being sent to scrap becuase people think they're 'bangers'.

In France, USA, Oz, etc, there is still plenty of cars from the 90's and 80's (and even a few from the 70's too) on the roads there. At least they don't have the ignorant attitude the Irish have.

Smoggy

there is no harm in taking older cars off the road, the road safety of new cars has come on leaps and bounds over the last 10 years for both the driver of the car, the car you could hit into and the pedestrian. Add onto this advances in reduction of harmful gases etc.

There are many sounds cases to get these cars off the roads.

stevenmu

daveharnett wrote: »

People don't throw out old TVs to buy manifestly inferior new TVs.

Actually they did/do. In particular when LCD/Plasmas first became mainstream, they had very poor quality compared to even a cheap CRT and cost significantly more for an equivalent size. That didn't stop people throwing their CRT in the nearest skip and running out to buy a shiny new "flatscreen", purely just to buy something new and shiny to impress the neighbours with.

sammalone

Is it true that car must be in your name for 18 months? I didn't realise that. Got my brothers old car last summer and it failed nct recently so I was thinking of scrapping it for a newbie - don't worry lads this does deserve to be scrapped!!!

bongi69

SmoggyV2 wrote: »

there is no harm in taking older cars off the road, the road safety of new cars has come on leaps and bounds over the last 10 years for both the driver of the car, the car you could hit into and the pedestrian. Add onto this advances in reduction of harmful gases etc.

There are many sounds cases to get these cars off the roads.

While I agree on your safety argument, you cannot paint all cars eligible for the scrappage scheme with the same brush. Yes I'm sure that a base level 99 Micra, Polo or similar wouldn't have airbags or such, but my current 99 Golf has front, side, and passenger airbags. 4 star euro Ncap to boot.

Yes I could take it in under the scrappage scheme if I so wanted. Provided of course the recession hadn't happened, I still had my job and my credit rating wasn't in the pan so I could finanace a new car. But even if I could, I wouldn't be able to justify letting go of a car that is running perfectly, is very clean inside and out, and does me grand

galwaytt

Saab Ed wrote: »

PPS ~ Some people might say that trading a C-Class for a Kia is an improvment ( only joking )

You are closer to the truth than you might admit to !

Hey, you won't find the Chinese cloning Korea.........but German, hey, that's a whole other ball of wax........

Erren Music wrote: »

Whats going to happen though when in 5 years a large % of all cars are band B or A. The gov have not factored in the longterm tax loss of new 5 series and E class cars. At what point will they change the tax on larger cars back to 600+ a year.

You're dead right. That is a dead cert, coming down the tracks - so buy the 'green car' now, pay for it. Maybe by the time it's paid for you can keep it, to afford the new tax !!

zilog_jones

Saab Ed wrote: »

1) We dont have much of a manufacturing industry of any sort in Ireland and as I've been told on many an occasion here , no motor industry at all.

Well there's still Hino, but they don't make cars these days (don't think they ever did over here anyway). There must still be a few parts manufacturers around the country, though many have closed down in recent years e.g. Atlas Aluminium in Limerick in who used to make VAG door handles and some other junk.

PS ~ Every car I've sold so far this year is either a category A or B car so in theory reducing C02 emissions long term.

More CO2 is emitted in the manufacturing of the car than any other stage in its lifecycle. Making those nice shiny galvanized steel panels and other stuff requires a hell of a lot of energy.

Aswell as that...the remaining metal is melted down and re-used in other applications

Recycling steel costs a lot of energy too, although not as much as mining and refining iron ore. Again, it's a lot more CO2 emissions than keeping an old car on the road for a few more years.

carchaeologist

The problem with scrappage cars is its usually good ones that get scrapped,as people who have the money to buy new usually maintain their older car pretty well.
If you are trying to run a car on a shoestring,often servicing gets missed and the like.
In my experience most scrappage cars are in pretty good shape,and the real ****heaps still stay driving. It was like this in the last scheme anyways..the NCT is here now at least to keep some standard.

Saab Ed

carchaeologist wrote: »

The problem with scrappage cars is its usually good ones that get scrapped,as people who have the money to buy new usually maintain their older car pretty well.
If you are trying to run a car on a shoestring,often servicing gets missed and the like.
In my experience most scrappage cars are in pretty good shape,and the real ****heaps still stay driving. It was like this in the last scheme anyways..the NCT is here now at least to keep some standard.

100% spot on. Thats exactly whats happening. I really do feel guilty killing off some of these cars. Mind you I did save a Fiesta a couple of weeks ago because it came in against a Bio Fuel Clio and the VRT was only €320 off so I sold it on to a learner for the same money. Tell you what though lads , I've never counted so many folded 50's in my life, there must be money under the matress of everybody over the age of 55 in this country. If you hung around our showroom for a day you'd be left wondering what recession!

-Corkie-

I seen a lovley 00 avensis yesterday goin for scrap had all the extras a/c alloys fogs esr etc. Its a pity someone above said a 00 corolla what a waste these are still very good cars.

mickdw

SARASON wrote: »

I seen a lovley 00 avensis yesterday goin for scrap had all the extras a/c alloys fogs esr etc. Its a pity someone above said a 00 corolla what a waste these are still very good cars.

A 00 Avensis wasnt a lovely car when it left the factory much less now IMO. Id love to crush one of them.

-Corkie-

mickdw wrote: »

A 00 Avensis wasnt a lovely car when it left the factory much less now IMO. Id love to crush one of them.

I know what your saying mick, i wouldnt drive one meself but it would make a good car for someone though.

Max_Damage

Wasn't their a report a few years back that listed the Jeep Wrangler 4.0L as the most energy efficient when it came to longevity and construction and so on?

Voodoomelon

I reckon i'll scrap my E38 now and buy a new 2010 7 series, I think I saw a €100,000 note sticking up from the back of my sofa.

zilog_jones

Max_Damage wrote: »

Wasn't their a report a few years back that listed the Jeep Wrangler 4.0L as the most energy efficient when it came to longevity and construction and so on?

Yes, there was some life cycle assessment thing, can't remember where I saw it either. I think the Ford Ka (Mk. 1) was mentioned too (or in a similar report). In both cases the fact they're such old designs probably helped as they would be much simpler to manufacture and assemble than more modern cars.

Gary ITR

I was watching an old episode of Top Gear(I know I know) earlier today, the one where they actually talked about cars and the Euro Ncap ratings. My God I would never let my girlfriend/wife (don't have one at the minute, applications via PM please) drive a car with anything less than a 4 star rating.

I'm all for saving the old cars, Much prefer a Mk2 Golf to a Mk6 same goes for Escorts, 3series beemers etc but purely from a safety point of view maybe we are better off with newer cars. Considering a 99 C-Class is only a 2 star car

Run_to_da_hills

A classic cull or a clean-up act?

Article in todays Irish Times on the damage scrappage schemes has on Classic cars.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/motors/2010/0310/1224265968684.html

Leonard Hofstadter

Yeah but there are loads of 10+ year old cars that did very well in safety tests.

I don't think you could say that cars have advanced really in terms of safety over the past 10 years at all.

BMW's, Merc's, Audi's, many VW's, the Ford Focus, all Volvo's from 10 years ago all got 4 star safety ratings. The only reason those cars didn't get the 5 stars is because back then 4 stars was the maximum you could get.

E39MSport

edit - wrong info

EPM

captainspeed wrote: »

Yeah but there are loads of 10+ year old cars that did very well in safety tests.

I don't think you could say that cars have advanced really in terms of safety over the past 10 years at all.

BMW's, Merc's, Audi's, many VW's, the Ford Focus, all Volvo's from 10 years ago all got 4 star safety ratings. The only reason those cars didn't get the 5 stars is because back then 4 stars was the maximum you could get.

But standards expected then were lower. If they were tested today they wouldn't meet 4 star criteria under current standards.

smash

captainspeed wrote: »

Yeah but there are loads of 10+ year old cars that did very well in safety tests.

I don't think you could say that cars have advanced really in terms of safety over the past 10 years at all.

BMW's, Merc's, Audi's, many VW's, the Ford Focus, all Volvo's from 10 years ago all got 4 star safety ratings. The only reason those cars didn't get the 5 stars is because back then 4 stars was the maximum you could get.

Yea, now go to youtube and look at the crash test comparisons between new and old cars, the older cars are shockingly bad!

Perfect example - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3ygYUYia9I