TopGolfer.ie

ShriekingSheet

So the site is up, with tour dates and detail. It's a really cool prospect and hopefully will bring a touch more hype and competitiveness to a few of the scratch cups in 2010.

Only negative I can see is the lack of an order of merit or league table to link up the events and show regular performers, as opposed to just those who did well on a given day.

Then again, anything like that would mean they'd have to address the whole 4/5 h'cap issue, some JSCs being 4+ and others 5+ etc...

The Site: www.topgolfer.ie
The Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000254537179&ref=ss

Tin_Cup

Defo worth checking out. Just need to get the handicap down now to play in it!

Dublin Spur

Just registered - Looks very very impressive.
Great work to all those involved.

roobear

great idea , well done to the organisers , hopin to get out in a few of them!

sector

Thats cool, just gotta shave a .4 off the h/c now as soon as there is a qualifying comp I can play in, everything is placing recently.

Mister Sifter

I think it's a good idea, but the pricing of them is crazy. Just looked at the one at Roganstown in May - €40 for 18 holes.

ShriekingSheet

Mister Sifter wrote: »

I think it's a good idea, but the pricing of them is crazy. Just looked at the one at Roganstown in May - €40 for 18 holes.

Yeah that's pretty steep. I wonder is that TG or the clubs' doing?

Conor J

thats a good idea,
I just have to continue to get my game back in shape, then join a club and get a handicap

f22

ShriekingSheet wrote: »

Yeah that's pretty steep. I wonder is that TG or the clubs' doing?

Not sure, Castle is the same. There is no doubt it's turning some people off the idea.

Irishvillian

Arklow is 25.00

Mister Sifter

ShriekingSheet wrote: »

Then again, anything like that would mean they'd have to address the whole 4/5 h'cap issue, some JSCs being 4+ and others 5+ etc...

I agree that this is something that really needs to be addressed. It's been said before many times that the 3-4 handicap range is pretty much no man's land when it comes to scratch cups.

I'd like to see Junior Cup and all Junior Scratches made 4-9 across the board.

madds

Irishvillian wrote: »

Arklow is 25.00

Now that's more like it.

Mister Sifter

ShriekingSheet wrote: »

Yeah that's pretty steep. I wonder is that TG or the clubs' doing?

I contacted TG about it, but they never got back to me. I notice that €10 of the fee is a voucher for the bar, but that's a total con.

Tee-times on the day are only available 12-30 to 3.30 or something like that so by the time you finish, most people will be looking for a dinner rather than a snack - and from memory, €10 won't exactly get you much off the Roganstown dinner menu!

Mister Sifter

Had a look at the event listings on the website and it looks like it's the club which sets the price (i'd imagine with a percentage going to TopGolfer).

The likes of Charlesland, Ashbourne etc are all around the €20-€25 mark for 18 holes.

Knightsbrook are offering a 36 hole senior scratch for €45, which includes food in between rounds.

Roganstown very poor value in comparison.

ShriekingSheet

I don't know Sifter, I think it's down to clubs trying to raise revenue. Look at the likes of Skerries which had a long standing one (I played with a guy last time who won it the week I was born!) and they pulled theirs altogether, presumably because they can't afford to give up a full Saturday to single figure guys playing 36 and therefore reducing the amount of timesheet space. I'd rather they kept it going and charged extra.

To be fair, a lot of the real value is outside Dublin where all golf is naturally cheaper. The likes of the Castle next week is 40e for 18 but is that a surprise? I thought woodbrook at 50e for 36 was dear, but at the same time, well worth it.

Bluefoam

I didn't register, I am not acceptable as my handycap is over 9...

Mister Sifter

ShriekingSheet wrote: »

I don't know Sifter, I think it's down to clubs trying to raise revenue. Look at the likes of Skerries which had a long standing one (I played with a guy last time who won it the week I was born!) and they pulled theirs altogether, presumably because they can't afford to give up a full Saturday to single figure guys playing 36 and therefore reducing the amount of timesheet space. I'd rather they kept it going and charged extra.

I think you're right - it's all about revenue. But still, it's apparently even €40 for Roganstown members. That's pretty greedy.

As for Skerries, their Junior Scratch is back this year. It was only pulled last year due to course renovations.

TopGolfer

Wow...lots of bombs being thrown our way. I have to say, firstly big respect to Shriek for letting us know that there was a growing TG related discussion on - very good of you.

I'll admit, my first instinct was to ignore the jibes, rise above it so to speak. Don't get drawn into a debate on a annonymous forum...could easily all go skewwif. But, well I think we all feel a little wounded when we get criticised and want to stand up and defend what you believe in, especially when things said are misleading or just a little unfair!

So .... What's the best way to do this? Maybe if I answer what I think are the core aspersions!!!

- 'the pricing of them is just crazy' : a slightly sweeping statement, but a pretty offensive one all the same. The average price of the 30 TopGolfer Tour Scratch Cups is....... €30. yes some more expensive and some less, but we think €30 doesn't justify 'the pricing of them is just crazy'. If you think I'm wrong, let's agree to differ. Oh and every golfer who competes receieves a player pack which includes a sleeve of Callaway tour balls, bars, drink, fruit, tees and more. We think our events are fantastic value, each and every one.

- 'Castle is the same, no doubt it's turning people off the idea' : another sweeping gem. The Junior Scratch at the Castle filled 3 weeks out, the timesheet closed with 22 days to go, full from 9.30am to 4pm. Please, don't say that it's turning people off the idea. Turning you off the idea, that's fine, I understand many people can find 40 too much, but just play in one of the many events included in the tour that are €20, or €25.

-I contacted TG but they never got back to me' : we're obsessive about replying to anyone and everyone who contacts us. If we failed on this ocassion, I'm sorry. I'm really dissappointed that we let you down on that. If you want to send the email again to rob @ topgolfer, I will answer straight away.

- 'I'd imagine with a percentage going to ToGolfer' : I'd imagine ....hmmmmmm. Well so you can stop imagining, we makes no percentage of any TopGolfer Tour Event entry fees. Our web site is free to join and we make no money from entry fees. We are committed to increasing the availability of competitive golf for golfers with handicaps of 9 or better, making those events fun, exciting and offering those interested the opportunity to feel they are part of a special community. We would never jeapardise any of that by trying to add to the cost of entering our events.

- 'I didn't register, I am nit acceptable as my handicap is over 9' : I could be snide and ask why participate in a discussion on scratch cups then?? But I won't. If you read about us on our site, you will see that TopGolfer welcomes everyone to join the community, we simply explain that to compete in our events you will have to be 9 or better because that is the essence of our tour.

We have had incredibly positive feedback from everyone... golfers, clubs, golf writers, and 'industry movers'. We're all thrilled because we got off our rears and have thrown all our passion into creating something we believe in. Criticism is healthy and really important to us because we exist for members of our community, we're all about them, and if criticism means we improve then bring it on. But guys give us a fair crack. We have had 1 event and our site was just launched a month ago. If you would like any more questions answered , get on the site and email them in, I promise I'll improve on our response performance. Also please excuse any spelling errors... small buttons!

sector

Well I think it's a fantastic concept & fair play to all involved. 40 quid isn't much at all when considered in context, in fact it's absolute value guys. I for one will be looking to knock my .4 off as soon as I can in order to participate.

ShriekingSheet

TopGolfer wrote: »

Wow...lots of bombs being thrown our way. I have to say, firstly big respect to Shriek for letting us know that there was a growing TG related discussion on - very good of you.

I'll admit, my first instinct was to ignore the jibes, rise above it so to speak. Don't get drawn into a debate on a annonymous forum...could easily all go skewwif. But, well I think we all feel a little wounded when we get criticised and want to stand up and defend what you believe in, especially when things said are misleading or just a little unfair!

So .... What's the best way to do this? Maybe if I answer what I think are the core aspersions!!!

- 'the pricing of them is just crazy' : a slightly sweeping statement, but a pretty offensive one all the same. The average price of the 30 TopGolfer Tour Scratch Cups is....... €30. yes some more expensive and some less, but we think €30 doesn't justify 'the pricing of them is just crazy'. If you think I'm wrong, let's agree to differ. Oh and every golfer who competes receieves a player pack which includes a sleeve of Callaway tour balls, bars, drink, fruit, tees and more. We think our events are fantastic value, each and every one.

- 'Castle is the same, no doubt it's turning people off the idea' : another sweeping gem. The Junior Scratch at the Castle filled 3 weeks out, the timesheet closed with 22 days to go, full from 9.30am to 4pm. Please, don't say that it's turning people off the idea. Turning you off the idea, that's fine, I understand many people can find 40 too much, but just play in one of the many events included in the tour that are €20, or €25.

-I contacted TG but they never got back to me' : we're obsessive about replying to anyone and everyone who contacts us. If we failed on this ocassion, I'm sorry. I'm really dissappointed that we let you down on that. If you want to send the email again to rob @ topgolfer, I will answer straight away.

- 'I'd imagine with a percentage going to ToGolfer' : I'd imagine ....hmmmmmm. Well so you can stop imagining, we makes no percentage of any TopGolfer Tour Event entry fees. Our web site is free to join and we make no money from entry fees. We are committed to increasing the availability of competitive golf for golfers with handicaps of 9 or better, making those events fun, exciting and offering those interested the opportunity to feel they are part of a special community. We would never jeapardise any of that by trying to add to the cost of entering our events.

- 'I didn't register, I am nit acceptable as my handicap is over 9' : I could be snide and ask why participate in a discussion on scratch cups then?? But I won't. If you read about us on our site, you will see that TopGolfer welcomes everyone to join the community, we simply explain that to compete in our events you will have to be 9 or better because that is the essence of our tour.

We have had incredibly positive feedback from everyone... golfers, clubs, golf writers, and 'industry movers'. We're all thrilled because we got off our rears and have thrown all our passion into creating something we believe in. Criticism is healthy and really important to us because we exist for members of our community, we're all about them, and if criticism means we improve then bring it on. But guys give us a fair crack. We have had 1 event and our site was just launched a month ago. If you would like any more questions answered , get on the site and email them in, I promise I'll improve on our response performance. Also please excuse any spelling errors... small buttons!

Sifter should be made print this off and eat it on the first tee of the Roganstown junior scratch cup!

ShriekingSheet

Mister Sifter wrote: »

Sifter won't be going near it.

Ah, come on. Are you standing by your criticism? TG not taking a cut of fees and the goody bag kind of swung it for me. Or at least the seperation of the tour and clubs raising fees is clear.

Funny that every news piece lately mentions dropping green fees, yet the single figure guys seem to be targeted with increased entrance money?

As for Roganstown being 40 for all, including members... surely not. Castle is 40 and 10 for members.

f22

Seeing as TG quoted me in his reply, I will repond.

I actually said it will turn 'some' people off the idea, which is true. I have spoken to at least 5 people who won't pay 40 to play an 18 hole JSC in Castle or anywhere else, out of principle.

For years open events have been e20 for visitors, sometimes a little extra with lunch thrown in, even prestigious 36 hole events like Headfort/Baltray are only e40, and those sheets are full the morning they come out. I fully admire what you are doing and fair play for letting people know you make no cut from entrance fees.

Personally, I plan to play in quite a few of you events but if I feel a club is taking the piss or simply not worth the entrance fee I won't bother.

Good luck with everything.

IITYWYBMAD

Excellent response TG. I'll definitely be joining up and I think the motivation behind TopGolfer is excellent, although it's very evident that you cannot please all people, despite addressing their concerns.

ShriekingSheet

Good points f22. I think scratch cup players do tend to vote with their feet on these things. While plenty of events are packed out, plenty are empty and won with shyte scores too.

It seems to me the standard green fee payers are fickle and must be pursued with low rates. But scratch cup players are more set on a given event, and may be being milked a little bit. But as I said, we'll vote with our feet.

Mister Sifter

f22 wrote: »

Seeing as TG quoted me in his reply, I will repond.

I actually said it will turn 'some' people off the idea, which is true. I have spoken to at least 5 people who won't pay 40 to play an 18 hole JSC in Castle or anywhere else, out of principle.

For years open events have been e20 for visitors, sometimes a little extra with lunch thrown in, even prestigious 36 hole events like Headfort/Baltray are only e40, and those sheets are full the morning they come out. I fully admire what you are doing and fair play for letting people know you make no cut from entrance fees.

Personally, I plan to play in quite a few of you events but if I feel a club is taking the piss or simply not worth the entrance fee I won't bother.

Good luck with everything.

I'm in the same boat as you F22 - i'll try and play in one or two of them, but i'm not about to be bent over and rammed for the 'privilege' of doing so.

My main gripe was with the pricing of the Roganstown event. I think it's shocking that they would try and squeeze €40 out of people to play in it, when every other 18 hole open event the club hosts through the year is only €25 to visitors.

Going by what TopGolfer says though, it is the club's decision to charge that amount, which in my opinion shows out and out greed.

I'm amazed, and a little saddened, that Castle has sold out at €40 a pop. Not that i don't want the thing to succeed, but more that it would appear to justify such pricing for events and may lead to more clubs trying to charge likewise.

Like F22, i'd like to play in some TopGolfer events as i do think the idea is good and the potential is there for it to be a roaring success, but i will be choosing my events very carefully.

ShriekingSheet

Mister Sifter wrote: »

I'm in the same boat as you F22 - i'll try and play in one or two of them, but i'm not about to be bent over and rammed for the 'privilege' of doing so.

My main gripe was with the pricing of the Roganstown event. I think it's shocking that they would try and squeeze €40 out of people to play in it, when every other 18 hole open event the club hosts through the year is only €25 to visitors.

Going by what TopGolfer says though, it is the club's decision to charge that amount, which in my opinion shows out and out greed. By the way Sheet, it is indeed the same cost to members as it is visitors. But still, there's always the goody bag filled with crap i don't really need or want and a €10 euro dinner voucher that will get me bugger all off the dinner menu after my round.

I'm amazed, and a little saddened, that Castle has sold out at €40 a pop. Not that i don't want the thing to succeed, but more that it would appear to justify such pricing for events and may lead to more clubs trying to charge likewise.

Like F22, i'd like to play in some TopGolfer events as i do think the idea is good and the potential is there for it to be a roaring success, but i will be choosing my events very carefully.

Well then that's total b@llox on Roganstown's part. Granted, it took four posts from you saying the same thing for me to realise that.

That said, this is a TopGolfer thread, and I think it's important to seperate out ridiculous greed like this from the TG effort. I sent yer man a message on twitter to get him to come and respond because the thread reads really negatively. Your posts are justified as regards Roganstown, and no more than maybe 5 other events (list linked below), but there's three points I'd make.

(a) there's 25 events that are well priced, versus 5 questionable ones.
(b) TG doesn't seem to have much to do with the pricing of events
(c) Ìt's in it's infancy here, and I reckon they might take this kind of feedback from you on board, so that next years tour can be planned with price in mind, letting the greedy clubs go f*ck themselves.

I have nothing to do with TG, but I think it's worth putting some balance on this thread, which will be read by a good few interested players.

http://www.topgolfer.ie/tour/schedule/

ianmcg

Just to be clear - standard Greenfee for Roganstown on Sunday is €55.
We run regualr open competitions - every second Tuesday - and price is €25.
The scratch cup entry fee is €40. That includes entry into the competition and covers the top golfer fee -(they may not make money on it but there is a substantial fee to be paid for their management of the website etc and toward the grand final funding - they also provide a goody bag- and as we only have the tee open for the event for 3.5 hours it works out at about €8 a head) €10 voucher for the hotel (prices are reasonable- soup and sandwich €8.50 or a grill for less than a tenner. You can also get a 2 course meal in the restaurant for less than €20) - there are prizes for the first three which have to be paid for.

Golf courses have to be maintained but I guess shrieking sheet would like us to pay him to play golf here and even then he'd most likely be the first to complain if the course wasn't in its usual fantastic condition.

ShriekingSheet

ianmcg wrote: »

Just to be clear - standard Greenfee for Roganstown on Sunday is €55.
We run regualr open competitions - every second Tuesday - and price is €25.
The scratch cup entry fee is €40. That includes entry into the competition and covers the top golfer fee -(they may not make money on it but there is a substantial fee to be paid for their management of the website etc and toward the grand final funding - they also provide a goody bag- and as we only have the tee open for the event for 3.5 hours it works out at about €8 a head) €10 voucher for the hotel (prices are reasonable- soup and sandwich €8.50 or a grill for less than a tenner. You can also get a 2 course meal in the restaurant for less than €20) - there are prizes for the first three which have to be paid for.

Thanks for that Ian. The plot thickens... Top Golfer have claimed above that they "make no money from entry fees", yet you're saying there's a "substantial fee" paid by the club to TG, which was then built into the fee. People are probably going to want clarity on this, even if neither party is obliged to divulge...

All the food pricing sounds really reasonable - contrary to Sifter's saying a tenner would get "bugger all". Still though, this has inflated the price of the event.

As for this...

ianmcg wrote: »

but I guess shrieking sheet would like us to pay him to play golf here and even then he'd most likely be the first to complain if the course wasn't in its usual fantastic condition,

I've no idea why you're having a go at me. Bitchy, snide comments will do you no favours, especially when you're fighting your clubs corner or a public forum.

ianmcg

Sorry if I offended - we offer terrific value at Roganstown - comment was a reaction to
(c) Ìt's in it's infancy here, and I reckon they might take this kind of feedback from you on board, so that next years tour can be planned with price in mind, letting the greedy clubs go f*ck themselves.

ShriekingSheet

ianmcg wrote: »

Sorry if I offended - we offer terrific value at Roganstown - comment was a reaction to
(c) Ìt's in it's infancy here, and I reckon they might take this kind of feedback from you on board, so that next years tour can be planned with price in mind, letting the greedy clubs go f*ck themselves.

Yeah, that'd be a reference to you charging your members quadruple what, say, Castle charge their members for the exact same event. Yours is the only club I've ever come accross to charge members and visitors the same fee.

Secondly, you're a tenner higher than the average fee on TG. Instead of letting people buy food or not as they choose, you've enforced it as a voucher within the price. Similar, better and worse courses than yours have the same maintanence and fees, yet are charging much lower event prices.

Care to comment on either of these points, without trying to abuse me like a child in a school yard?

eel27

Hi, just to let everyone know that there is different price for members.

ShriekingSheet

eel27 wrote: »

Hi, just to let everyone know that there is different price for members.

That's contrary to what I've been told by a member. If i'm wrongly informed, it'd be good to clear it up. If they've changed it having been pulled up on it by members and here, all the better. No sign of Ian's reply yet.

stumpypeeps

Talk about taking a wonderful event and pissing all over it. I think you all need to take a step back for a minute. I'd love to play in such a competition and hopefully if its still running in 2020 I might have a chance.:o

eel27

The members rate is not advertised on the posters etc, but there defo is a different price for members when they ask in the clubhouse.

ianmcg

You need to get your facts straight - entry fee for event ranges between €20 and €45 depending on where it's on. Average is €30. Our price is €40 and that includes a €10 voucher for the hotel and prizes. I don't know if the Castle is offering that - I don't think so.

If you're a member call the golf shop - otherwise what we charge members is none of your business.

ShriekingSheet

To draw a line under this nonsense, it's probably best to say that the vast majority of Top Golfer events are fairly priced. But good prices are only a small element of the events.

The extra awareness and competitiveness TG will generate is exactly what the events need, and the closer they get to being an actual circuit, the better for all of us involved.

DonkeyPokerTour

ianmcg wrote: »

If you're a member call the golf shop - otherwise what we charge members is none of your business.

WIthout trying to cause hassle or backseat mod, that kind of attitude will get you no where. Now I'm not of a low enough handicap to play any of the events but I've been put off from playing Roganstown, as a green fee, any time soon if thats the attitude taken by committee members/pro shop.

Regards
Ian

thegen

Anyone playing in the above event?

€140.00 for the golf side of it with perks. Add B&B costs plus beer and food in the evening and it is getting costly.

TopGolfer

thegen wrote: »

Anyone playing in the above event?

€140.00 for the golf side of it with perks. Add B&B costs plus beer and food in the evening and it is getting costly.

As always, we're doing our best to keep costs down as much as we possibly can. We've included 2 rounds of golf, 2 nights food, a breakfast, goody bags, prizes and live scoring in the price....there'll be a few drinks too. It all adds up as the fella says. One thing we hope to do is to encourage topgolfers to come together and share accommodation. Promise, we're as conscious of costs as anyone, but we're also determined to make this a brilliant weekend. If you hadn't realised as well, it's Ryder Cup Friday and Saturday, so that's going to add to the entertainment.

ianmcg

The golf is €40 including greenfee, prizes and a voucher for €10 to spend in the bar or restaurant - you can get dinner bed and breakfast package for €79 per person sharing - so competition, dinner, bed, breakfast and a few beers for less than €120

thegen

TopGolfer wrote: »

As always, we're doing our best to keep costs down as much as we possibly can. We've included 2 rounds of golf, 2 nights food, a breakfast, goody bags, prizes and live scoring in the price....there'll be a few drinks too. It all adds up as the fella says. One thing we hope to do is to encourage topgolfers to come together and share accommodation. Promise, we're as conscious of costs as anyone, but we're also determined to make this a brilliant weekend. If you hadn't realised as well, it's Ryder Cup Friday and Saturday, so that's going to add to the entertainment.

Not have a pop at you. If I could get the visa stamped from the war ofice Id be there. Played in the Castle event and it was a superb event.

TopGolfer

ianmcg wrote: »

The golf is €40 including greenfee, prizes and a voucher for €10 to spend in the bar or restaurant - you can get dinner bed and breakfast package for €79 per person sharing - so competition, dinner, bed, breakfast and a few beers for less than €120

Ian, i was replying to comment on our Links Championship re: the €140.

TopGolfer

thegen wrote: »

Not have a pop at you. If I could get the visa stamped from the war ofice Id be there. Played in the Castle event and it was a superb event.

Sorry pal, if it came across like I thought you were having a pop!! Maybe a little sensitive in this dark place where it's only too easy for some people to snipe and bite from the sidelines. Genuinely we're doing our very best to make our golf events that little bit more special while being conscious of price. The links championship will be our first members event and we hope our members will support.....so far judging by the reaction it looks like they will. The plan is for a bit of a golfing festival that weekend - we're all seriously looking forward to it anyway.

Mister Sifter

TopGolfer wrote: »

Sorry pal, if it came across like I thought you were having a pop!! Maybe a little sensitive in this dark place where it's only too easy for some people to snipe and bite from the sidelines. Genuinely we're doing our very best to make our golf events that little bit more special while being conscious of price. The links championship will be our first members event and we hope our members will support.....so far judging by the reaction it looks like they will. The plan is for a bit of a golfing festival that weekend - we're all seriously looking forward to it anyway.

Seriously mate, you want to get yourself some thicker skin.

soundsham

Thanks for the bag in Lee Valley yeaterday,balls were a bonus,energy bars were great too,golf was sh:ocking, hope to see ye in fota again

course was great 72 won

jimmystars

Yea can echo the sentiments above. The course was in sweet nick and greens were deadly if on the wrong side of the hole. Only problem was the lenght of time to play the 3rd hole. Waited for 4 groups to play before it was our turn and stayed that way all day. Other than that nice one. Good shooting off 7 :eek: to win. Usually only see good 5 or 4s winning.

soundsham

played early it was ok then,guys were calling next group on to hit before putting out,

ya 72 was a good score 74 normally wins and was good enough for second

theres a couple of very long par 3's now over 200yds,
lucky it wasn't windy:eek:

Jasonw

I really enjoyed lee valley. Thanks for the goodie bag too. We were out in the afternoon and the rain. pretty clear all the way round as the timesheet had thinned out with the match and all. No wait at the third. Didn't stop me hitting a triple bogey though. :rolleyes:

Pleased enough to finish with an 81 in the end as I was 6 over after 5. It was gas to see the eventual winner pacing around like an expectant father while the last of the groups came in. I guess I would be too if I ever got into that position.