Stat Changes in Cataclysm.

2 Espressi

I've only noticed that they'll be changing how stats are calculated on gear in 4.0. Looks like they're swinging back to the old/Vanilla setup?

wrote:

Cataclysm Stats Change – MP5 removed – Mana per 5 seconds (regeneration) will be removed from all items and be replaced with spirit. This is quite controversial as after the Burning Crusade expansion a lot of MP5 stats were added to make some items more class specific (and spirit was seen as too ‘powerful’ of a stat with too many effects). Well now it’s back!

WoW Cataclysm stats – Spellpower removed – This is a big change for mages in WoW Cataclysm – their favourite ‘Spellpower’ stat is being removed and replaced with more intellect. Some will see this as a positive (as +int also increases mana pool) but we will wait to see what the ‘conversion rate’ is.

WoW Cataclysm stat – Attack power removed – Hunters and rogues hold their breath as AP has also been removed from all items, replaced by its relative, agility. Agility in WoW Cataclysm will once again be the King of stats for melee classes, so look forward to lots of fights between classes in future.

WoW Stats change Cataclysm – Strength – Strength will replace attackpower on plate, which means that Warriors, Paladins and DKs will no longer desire the lesser mail drops of hunters and shamans.

WoW Cataclysm warrior stats – Defense – The much loved Defense stat, which warriors have relied on for years as their big advantage when it comes to tanking, is being removed. No more defense cap! Warriors will need to look to their talent tree for anti-crit from talents, instead of gear.

World of Warcraft Cataclysm Stats – Armor penetration – The armor pentration stat has been removed as it was seen as too confusing and techinical. It will be replaced with a new WoW Cataclysm stat – Mastery – which will give a boost to all areas.

Cataclysm stat change – Stamina increase – Stamina will be increased across nearly all items. Due to the removal of a number of other items and stats (especially for warriors), this will mean a lot to tanks and others.

TheDoc

Sounds a lot more simplified and better overall.

Dustaz

Some of what you posted is incorrect and misleading (ArPen is being converted to crit/haste not mastery)



So im not sure where you got that but theres a much more detailed blue post about it
(All of the following i got from www.mmo-champion.com which is pretty much the best wow news site on the web)

As many of you know from panels at last year’s BlizzCon and posts here on the forums since then, Cataclysm will bring about major changes to familiar character stats such as Intellect, Armor Penetration, Defense, and others, ultimately designed to make the effects of stats more easily understandable and make gear choices more interesting. As these changes will have a significant impact on how stats work and relate to one another, today we wanted to offer you a closer look at exactly what’s in store and explain some of the rationale before Cataclysm arrives.

The most obvious question these changes raise is "Why are stats being changed, and why now?" As the game has matured, we've run into increasingly complex issues with the current stat system. Many stats are inherently confusing, and the way they interrelate can feel convoluted. Attack Power, for example, currently translates to damage, but so does Armor Penetration. Defense provides five different statistical benefits of varying utility. Mana regeneration involves understanding multiple stats and rules and often ends up being irrelevant anyway. In addition, the difference between a "good stat" for a class and a "bad stat" can be extreme. Some casters want Haste but not Crit; hunters want Armor Penetration but not Haste. There are other overarching issues, as well, such as Intellect not being very exciting for casters despite it being a core stat -- and these are just a few examples.

Our ultimate goal is make gear a more interesting (and less confusing) choice by making each stat valuable to more players. While the reasoning behind some of the following changes may be clear, we understand that you may have questions about some of the less obvious alterations, and we'll do our best to answer any questions you may have here on the forums.


What You’ll See on Gear


Stamina - Because of the way we will be assigning Strength, Agility, and Intellect, non-plate wearers will end up with more Stamina than before. Health pools will be much closer between plate-wearers and other classes.

Spirit - Come Cataclysm, this stat should only be found on healing gear. Non-healing casters will have other systems in place to regenerate mana, and we are designing special solutions for Elemental shaman and Balance druids who often share gear with healers (more on this below). Raid buffs that currently boost Spirit (such as Blessing of Kings) will only boost the primary stats of Stamina, Strength, Agility, and Intellect. We are also likely changing the five-second rule and other quirks of the current regen system.

Intellect - Intellect will now grant Spell Power (more on this below). Intellect will also provide less mana than it currently does.

Haste - Haste will become more attractive for melee classes by allowing them to recover resources such as energy and runes more quickly. Our intention is for Haste to let you "do stuff" more often.

Block Rating - Block is being redesigned to scale better. Blocked attacks will simply hit for 30% less damage. Block rating will improve your chance to block, though overall block chances will be lower than they are today.

Parry - Parry no longer provides 100% avoidance and no longer speeds up attacks. Instead, when you parry an attack, it and the next attack will each hit for 50% damage (assuming they hit at all). In other words, Dodge is a chance to avoid 100% of the damage from one attack, Parry is a chance to avoid 50% of the damage from two attacks, and Block is a chance to avoid 30% of the damage from one attack.

Mastery - This is a new stat that will allow players to become better at whatever makes their chosen talent tree cool or unique. It's directly tied to talents, so what you gain from improving this stat is entirely dependent upon your class and the talent specialization you choose. We’ll talk more about specific Mastery benefits in the future.

Armor - The way Armor mitigates damage is not changing, but the Armor stat has been rebalanced to mirror changes to the armor curve in Cataclysm. As a result, bonus Armor will go down slightly overall. We are also changing the mitigation difference among armor types so that plate doesn’t offer so much more protection than mail, leather, and cloth.

Resilience - This will only affect damage done by players and critical damage done by players. It will not impact crit chance, mana drains, or other such effects.

Strength, Agility, Hit Rating, Expertise, and Critical Strike Rating - These will all still appear on gear as well. Aside from situations mentioned elsewhere in this list, in general these will function similarly to how they do now, though the details -- such as how much Hit Rating you might need to effectively combat high-level creatures (more on this below) -- are likely to change.


Being Removed from Items


Attack Power - This stat will no longer be present on most items as a flat value, though it will still show up on some process. Strength and Agility, which will be present on items, will grant the appropriate amount of Attack Power (generally 2 Attack Power per point of Strength or Agility) depending upon which stat a particular class favors. Agility may provide less Crit than it currently does.

Spell Power - Spell Power is another stat that you'll no longer see present on most items. Instead, as mentioned above, Intellect will grant Spell Power. One exception is that caster weapons will still have Spell Power. This allows us to make weapons proportionately more powerful for casters in the same way they are for melee classes.

Armor Penetration - This stat will no longer be present on items. Armor Penetration will still exist in talents and abilities.

Shield Block Value - This stat will no longer be present on items, since the amount blocked is always proportional to the amount of damage done. Talents and other effects might still modify the damage-reduction percentage from 30%, however.


Going Away Completely


MP5 - This stat will be removed from the game completely. Holy paladins and Restoration shaman will be redesigned to benefit from Spirit.

Defense - Defense is being removed from the game entirely. Tanking classes should expect to become uncrittable versus creatures just by shifting into Defensive Stance, Frost Presence, Bear Form, or by using Righteous Fury.

Spell Ranks - Spell ranks will cease to exist. All spells will have one rank and will scale appropriately with level. The levels at which you can learn certain spells are being changed in order to fill in some of the gaps, and we will be introducing some new spells to learn along the way as well.

Weapon Skill - This stat will be removed from the game completely. Classes will start with all the weapon skills they need to know and will not need to improve them.


What Else You Should Know


Combat ratings - All ratings will be much harder to "cap out" at maximum gear levels. Ratings will be steeper in Cataclysm, and creatures in later tiers of content will be harder to hit or crit, similar to how level-83 mobs are harder to hit or crit than level-80 mobs.

Reforging - While these changes will go a long way to making a wider variety of stats more attractive, we understand that sometimes you simply don’t want more Hit Rating on your gear or you’d rather have more Haste than more Crit. In Cataclysm, we are going to give players a way to replace stats on gear as part of the existing profession system. As a general rule of thumb, you’ll be able to convert one stat to 50% of another stat. While some conversions (like converting Stamina to Strength) won’t be permitted, the goal is to let you customize your gear more.

Gems - We are changing the gem colors of a few stats as a result of these adjustments. For example, Hit is likely to be blue instead of yellow. We'll have more details on this in the future.

Dustaz

More

Changes to Existing Gear

As with previous expansions, we plan to roll out these changes and modify all existing gear shortly before Cataclysm launches, though it’s still too early to say exactly when. For the most part, the gear you have will still be good for you, though there will be exceptions, such as warriors using leather and mail armor.

If you are a tank (druids excepted), expect to see:

* No more Defense on gear. Existing Defense becomes Dodge, Parry, or Block Rating.
* No more Block Value on gear. Existing Block Value becomes Block Rating.
* You’ll have as much Stamina as you’re used to, though you may notice your tanking plate has a bit less Stamina than a comparable piece of DPS plate, since we tend to take the gem budget out of your most attractive stat.
* Bonus Armor on gear will go down slightly.



If you are a melee DPS class, druid tank, or hunter, expect to see:

* A lot more Stamina. Bear-form Stamina scaling will be lowered as a result.
* Strength if you wear plate. Agility if you wear mail or leather.
* Existing Attack Power becomes Agility and Stamina.Armor Penetration becomes Haste or Crit.
* No Intellect on melee gear. Hunters won’t need Intellect since they will no longer use mana. Shaman and Retribution paladins will get mana and spell damage in other ways.



If you are a DPS caster, expect to see:

* A lot more Stamina.
* All of your Spell Power converted to Intellect and Stamina.
* No Spirit. You won’t miss Spirit, though, because you won’t need it for DPS or mana regen.



If you are a healer, expect to see:

* A lot more Stamina.
* All of your Spell Power converted to Intellect and Stamina.
* Spirit instead of MP5. You’ll probably be happy with Spirit, though, because mana regen is going to matter more than it does currently. Healing paladins and shaman will benefit more from Spirit than they do currently.



If you are a Balance druid or Elemental shaman:

* You will still share gear with Restoration druids and shaman.
* Your gear will have Spirit on it. It won’t have Hit on it.
* You will have a talent that converts Spirit to Hit. We will adjust talents accordingly so that you want about as much Spirit as, say, a warlock wants Hit.
* Hit on rings and other such gear will still benefit you.
* Raid buffs will no longer boost Spirit, so you shouldn’t find yourself unexpectedly over the Hit cap because of buffs.



Many lower-level items with nonsensical combinations of stats, such as Agility and Spirit, will be changed. We're also updating quest rewards, trade skills, and loot drops to support better itemization for class builds that weren't widely available or used prior to The Burning Crusade (such as Balance druids).

We're aware this is a lot of information to take in, but this is still only a piece of the larger picture, and many of these changes rely on integration with other systems we haven't yet discussed in detail. In the weeks and months ahead, we'll continue to tell you more about these changes, along with all of the new and exciting features we have planned for Cataclysm.

Shougeki

Hmm. I was getting a bit miffed about cataclysm thinking it was just more of the same. Looks like they are going for a major revamp/refresh/overhaul

Lets hope they still keep it interesting....

2 Espressi

Thanks for the updated unfo D, I pulled the OP quote from the less than official looking http://www.wowcataclysminfo.com/

papajimsmooth

I hope they do the hunter focus bar

Blowfish

Related mastery stuff.

Predictable enough 'unique' bonus for Disc, though when taking the Holy one into account, it would make me not want to spend any points in Holy as a HoT on direct heals is completely useless for Disc. Probably wishful thinking that they shift Inspiration over to the Disc tree.

Shadow spec too is going to be a bit odd as without meditation, there's no reason to spec into either Holy or Disc, so you could actually end up with a 0/0/76 build...

TheDoc

The removal of the def cap sounds sweet

Dustaz

Blowfish wrote: »

Related mastery stuff.

Predictable enough 'unique' bonus for Disc, though when taking the Holy one into account, it would make me not want to spend any points in Holy as a HoT on direct heals is completely useless for Disc. Probably wishful thinking that they shift Inspiration over to the Disc tree.

Shadow spec too is going to be a bit odd as without meditation, there's no reason to spec into either Holy or Disc, so you could actually end up with a 0/0/76 build...

Dont forget they are gonna massively overhaul all the trees too so talking about existing talent trees is moot. They can get creative with talents as well due to the fact they arent adding another tier with cataclysm, just allowing you the 5 extra points without new ones being added.

TheDoc

Anyone happen to have a proxy i could connety to mmo through, or someone wanna copy and paste the mastery thing here...

2 hours left in a business lecture and need something to pass the time

Blowfish

Last week, we gave you an early look at the changes we’re making to the stat system in World of Warcraft: Cataclysm, and explained how these changes will ultimately provide players with more interesting gear choices and make stats easier to understand. Today we’d like to go into more detail about a brand-new feature that’s an integral part of this overhaul: the Mastery system, a set of new game mechanics designed to allow players to become better at what makes their chosen talent tree cool or unique. With this system, we want to accomplish three things: give players more freedom in how they allocate talent points, simplify some of the “kitchen sinky” talents that try to do too much at once, and add a new stat to high-level gear that makes you better at your chosen role.

Here’s how the system works: As you spend points in a given talent tree, you’ll receive three different passive bonuses specific to that tree. The first bonus will increase your damage, healing, or survivability, depending on the intended role of the tree. The second bonus will be related to a stat commonly found on gear desirable to you, such as Haste or Crit. The third bonus will be the most interesting, as it will provide an effect completely unique to that tree -- meaning there will be 30 different bonuses of this nature in the game. This third bonus is the one that will benefit from the Mastery rating found on high-level (level 80 to 85) gear.

One of our primary goals with Mastery is to give players more flexibility to choose fun or utility-oriented talents rather than make them feel obligated to pick up “mandatory” but uninteresting talents, such as passive damage or healing. (For examples of the kinds of powerful but boring talents we’re talking about, take a look at the talent tier just above the 51-point talent in many of the existing trees.) In a sense, Mastery makes it so every talent in (just for example) a rogue tree essentially has an invisible additional bullet point that says “???and increases your damage by X%.” This way, if you choose a talent like Elusiveness (which reduces your chance to be detected while stealthed) or Fleet Footed (which affects movement), you won’t feel like you’re giving up damage in exchange for utility.

There will still be talents that boost damage, of course, but those talents will also affect the way you play. For example, you can still expect to see talents like Improved Frostbolt, which reduces the cast time of the Frostbolt spell; it increases DPS, but it also affects the mage’s rotation. Piercing Ice, however, is just “6% more damage” and is the kind of talent we’re trying to eliminate by implementing the Mastery system.

As we get closer to Cataclysm’s release, we’ll go into more detail about the changes coming for each class, including individual talent-tree adjustments and how Mastery will affect them. In the meantime, here are a few examples to demonstrate the three kinds of passive bonuses we described above. Please keep in mind that we're still working on this system, and the handful of examples we're providing here are, of course, subject to change.

Holy Priest
For each talent point spent in the Holy tree, the priest also gets:

Healing – Improves your healing by X%.
Meditation – Improves your mana regeneration from Spirit in combat. This would likely replace the existing Meditation talent from the Discipline tree, which many Holy priests consider to be a “must-have.” Regeneration will also probably be determined by whether you are in or out of combat, and not the “five-second rule.
Radiance – Adds a heal-over-time effect to direct heals, such as Flash Heal. Mastery on gear would boost this bonus, and no other talent tree would grant it.

Discipline Priest
For each talent point spent in the Discipline tree, the priest also gets:

Healing – Improves your healing by X%.
Meditation – Improves your mana regeneration from Spirit in combat. This would likely replace the existing Meditation talent.
Absorption – Improves the amount of damage absorbed by spells such as Power Word: Shield and Divine Aegis. Mastery on gear would boost this bonus, and no other talent tree would grant it.

Frost Death Knight
For each talent point spent in the Frost tree, the death knight also gets:

Damage – Improves your melee and spell damage by X%.
Haste – Improves your melee Haste by Y%. This might allow us to remove some of the Haste in the Icy Talons line of talents.
Runic Power – Improves the rate of runic power generated by abilities. While all death knights want runic power, Frost death knights would generally have more runic power than Blood or Unholy death knights (who would receive a different benefit from their respective trees). An Unholy death knight who sub-specs into Frost would still be able to benefit from this bonus, though because they’re investing fewer talent points, they’d benefit to a smaller degree. Mastery on gear would boost this bonus, and no other talent tree would grant it.

A couple other things to note: Currently, we’re not planning to retrofit the Mastery stat onto current level-80 gear when we roll out the stat-system changes prior to Cataclysm’s release. However, Mastery will begin appearing on select quest and dungeon items. You will also gain a small amount of Mastery by wearing gear of your intended armor type (such as plate for paladins). For players with dual specs, when you change between your two chosen specs, the Mastery bonuses and the benefit you receive from the Mastery stat on gear will adjust automatically based on your new spec.

We’ll have more details to share about these and other changes we’re making in Cataclysm in the future, and we’ll do our best to answer your questions about the Mastery system here on the forums. For information on many of the stat changes being made in Cataclysm, please check out our earlier update at -

.

TheDoc

Interested to see what the mastery on gear means.

Hopefully soon we see a sample tooltip of an item displaying what we expect to see

Niska

Blowfish wrote: »

Shadow spec too is going to be a bit odd as without meditation, there's no reason to spec into either Holy or Disc, so you could actually end up with a 0/0/76 build...

The second bonus will be related to a stat commonly found on gear desirable to you, such as Haste or Crit

Spirit - Come Cataclysm, this stat should only be found on healing gear. Non-healing casters will have other systems in place to regenerate mana, and we are designing special solutions for Elemental shaman and Balance druids who often share gear with healers (more on this below). Raid buffs that currently boost Spirit (such as Blessing of Kings) will only boost the primary stats of Stamina, Strength, Agility, and Intellect. We are also likely changing the five-second rule and other quirks of the current regen system.

Meditation – Improves your mana regeneration from Spirit in combat. This would likely replace the existing Meditation talent.

Assuming, of course, the 2nd ability in the Shadow tree will be Mediation, which, by Med's Spirit relationship would be unlikely. Of course, without knowing the Shadow spec abilities we're merely speculating - they could have a Spirit -> Hit (or Crit) conversion ability and thus encourage Shadow Priest to wear Spirit gear. Or, conversely, the expectation may be that Shadow Priests will wear the same cloth as Mages and Warlocks, but this would mean they'd have no Spirit on their gear and would lose the Meditation bonus if they cross-tree into Holy or Discipline...

Gunmonkey

This is all good news, just got an Elemental Shaman to 80 and hear that barely any of the Mail drops at endgame have good stats for it. Mastery system should work well, was a good idea in Warhammer Online and meant you didnt have to spend talent points on "junk" upgrades just to get to the good stuff further down the tree.

Blowfish

This seems to make a lot of sense:

# 1. 28/28/20 spec. Does mastery on gear affect both highest trees or give no benefit at all?
Mastery on gear gives you one bonus. That bonus is the third passive (the unique one) in the tree in which you’ve spent the most points. In the examples we gave, those are Absorption, Radiance and Runic Power generation.

# 2. How are ferals and Dks as tanks working with mastery system in place? Are they to care about it for threat or do they have separate bonuses.
Ferals will have passive bonuses that say Cat: melee damage done, Bear: damage reduction. For death knights we have a different plan in mind that we’re not quite ready to discuss. DKs are undergoing some slight changes so they aren’t so GCD constrained and are less limited by rune cooldowns.

# 3. How are the non-pure classes going to be balanced against those with a full 76 point passive benefit? Balance, enhancement(not so much), shadow, feral, ele, resto, holy and Ret all have this issue.
Assume you only get the passive bonuses for the tree in which you’ve spent the most points, and there is a ceiling per tree (which could be something like 51-55 talent points). If you spend more points than that in a tree you still get the benefits of the talent. If you spend points in another tree, you are benefiting from those talents instead. Unless you try to make say a 40 / 36 / 0 build, you shouldn’t be losing passive bonuses.

If you turn level 10 and spend 1 point in Discipline, you are now a Disc priest. You receive the Disc talent tree passive bonuses and mastery rating on gear benefits your Disc passive bonus (Absorption). If you reach level 85 and have 70 points in Disc and 6 in Holy, you are still a Disc priest and the same rules apply. If you change your build to 51 Disc / 20 Holy / 5 Shadow, you are still a Disc priest.

# 4. Hybrids who use spells not improved by their spec on occasion such as heals or the extra lava burst are feeling that their non-specced spells are going to be extremely weak as compared to now.
They are weak now and the intent is to keep them that way. We aren’t trying to nerf them any more than they are today. If we want to make sure Resto shaman can do big Lava Bursts, we’ll give them a talent or something to make that happen. We don’t want Resto shaman to Lava Burst anywhere on the scale of an Elemental shaman. Again, how they perform today is pretty much the target for where we want to end up.

Dustaz

RopeDrink wrote: »

Also (and this is based on our current tree, taking into account possible revamps in Cata so take it with a pinch of salt), Imp InnerFire and, for some SPriests (Nuking purposes) InnerFocus are handy as Shadow. PvP ShadowPriests, however, ALWAYS spec into Disc, with or without Meditation so only PvE SPriests have the 'option' of not bothering.

Firstly as you said, you have no idea what the trees will look like. They are giving them a complete overhaul removing, adding, shifting and modifying talents. So saying your 'always' going to spec into disc makes no sense.

Secondly, Mastery will be capped at some point. So after say 50 or 55 points in a tree you stop getting mastery bonus from that tree. You can then put the rest of your points whereever you WANT (which is the point of the system). Be that into shadow or disc or holy. Wherever the points suit you.

Dustaz

tell you what tho, i cant actually wait to see what they do.

Before the previous 2 expansions there was great anticipation for the 5 or 10 new talents in your trees, im really starting to get curious about a whole revamp of ALL the trees!

Also, when patch 2.0 and 3.0 came out, casters and mages particularly OWNED FACES untill the gear and weapons that melee rely on caught up with the talent boost that casters recieved. Imagine what it will be like this time? My little gnome will be a GOD AMONGST MEN (for 3 weeks!)