Christianity and cults of personality

monosharp

Hey all,

So recently I read an article about North Korean defectors who were helped out of North Korea by some South Korean missionaries.

The basic story is that they are now in South Korea, basically dependent on the pastor and the church that helped them escape, at least for the time being. As part of this they attend church worship etc but surprisingly (at least to me) not many of them actually convert to Christianity.

The reason this is so surprising to me is because Korean culture, specifically because of confucianism, is quite accustomed to the idea of "status" and "obedience" to people of higher status. i.e > When Il-Sung took power in North Korea he basically assumed the role of "king", in South Korea it was more or less the same until the early 90's, presidents were more or less dictators, other politicians were more or less the kings advisors. South Korea while technically a republic from its founding was pretty much a police state/dictatorship until very recently.

You can see this is all walks of life here, work, religion, family, sport etc. Higher status means you do what your told with a bow and a smile and you show higher people respect. They even have different verbs for people of higher status. e.g > I'd say to a younger child 'mo-go' (eat) or to a person of equal status 'mo-go-yoo' but to my boss i'd have to say 'dee-say-yoo' (eat) or someone of very high status 'dee-say-sim-li-da' (eat).

Specially in Christianity here many people follow their pastors and what they say. If a pastor moves church his congregation moves to follow him. They do of course read the bible but much more weight (with many of them) is given to the pastors sayings then anything else.

So anyways, the N. Korean escapees who were interviewed and asked why they attend church if they didn't believe in god seemed to have one prevalent answer. In North Korea Juche is the religion and Kim Il-Sung is god, you can see him, hear him. But now they were been asked to accept a god who they can neither see nor hear and they found that very difficult.

So what I'd like to ask is this;

How do people here feel about Christianity in a class society like Korea, when a pastors word is more important then, or at least as important as, the Bible itself ?

And why do you think it is so difficult for N. Korean people to accept new religions (not just Christianity) after spending their lives under the bombardment of juche ideology ?

Xluna

monosharp wrote: »

And why do you think it is so difficult for N. Korean people to accept new religions (not just Christianity) after spending their lives under the bombardment of juche ideology ?

That's a pretty interesting topic. I think,because of Confucianism, oriental societies are very group orientated and everyone knows there place. I don't know about Korea but I do know Japan is a very safe country to live in. I suppose you could say that from the mid 19thc until the past thirty years Ireland was a group orientated nation where a priest was an important social status. Of course we all know the many abuses that occured due to this power. Either the Asians are inherently more self disciplined than us or there is a massive amount of abuses(I'm not strickly refering to sexual abuse) in there societies by the people of veneration and power.

Zombrex

monosharp wrote: »

How do people here feel about Christianity in a class society like Korea, when a pastors word is more important then, or at least as important as, the Bible itself ?

I would say all Christians here would be totally cool with that*







* warning views may not represent reality. :pac:

wolfsbane

Wicknight wrote: »

I would say all Christians here would be totally cool with that*


* warning views may not represent reality. :pac:

Yes, we have a major global institution run on those very lines, going for nearly as long as the NT church itself. Shows how popular it is with the ordinary sinner to have all his religious thinking done for him. Of course, that group compliance is reinforced when dissenters are imprisoned or executed. A very effect societal glue.

I saw Ann Widdicombe on telly the other night bemoaning the destruction caused by the Reformation. If only they had obeyed their leaders, what a happy society we would have had these past 500 years. (I need to borrow your asterisk).

PDN

monosharp wrote: »

Hey all,

So recently I read an article about North Korean defectors who were helped out of North Korea by some South Korean missionaries.

The basic story is that they are now in South Korea, basically dependent on the pastor and the church that helped them escape, at least for the time being. As part of this they attend church worship etc but surprisingly (at least to me) not many of them actually convert to Christianity.

I wouldn't find that surprising at all. Most people who receive humanitarian aid from Christian groups do not convert to Christianity. This includes alcoholics who sleep in Salvation Army shelters, women rescued from sexual slavery and people trafficking by the Jubilee Campaign, or those who receive aid from Christians in Haiti or Niger.

How do people here feel about Christianity in a class society like Korea, when a pastors word is more important then, or at least as important as, the Bible itself ?

With all due respect, I would not see your descriptions and characterisations of Christianity in Korea as being either unbiased or necessarily accurate.

And why do you think it is so difficult for N. Korean people to accept new religions (not just Christianity) after spending their lives under the bombardment of juche ideology ?

Brainwashing (whether religious or atheistic) often has its desired effect.

monosharp

PDN wrote: »

I wouldn't find that surprising at all. Most people who receive humanitarian aid from Christian groups do not convert to Christianity. This includes alcoholics who sleep in Salvation Army shelters, women rescued from sexual slavery and people trafficking by the Jubilee Campaign, or those who receive aid from Christians in Haiti or Niger.

In fairness PDN its a very different situation, although I fully accept your point and please understand me, I do accept and agree that Christian groups do perform a lot of good in the world. I might not be a believer but I have no problem with people who do and the good they do because of that.

The reason its different is that the North Korean escapees tend to be completely reliant on these Christians for their very survival, coupled of course with the very aggressive nature of many (not all) of the Christians here, it is surprising.

North Koreans who escape to the south find it extremely difficult to adapt to capitalism, they simply don't know how to take care of themselves. I know that sounds surprising, but in the North the government does 'take care' of them, relatively speaking. The majority of N Korean escapees would actually be 'well off' (relatively speaking) up there so an apartment, career (chosen for you, no thinking required ) and regular food (usually) is automatically supplied.

When they come here they simply can't function, they're not capable of managing themselves financially and they tend to rely on the churches/buddhists or other organisations for a lot of help.

With all due respect, I would not see your descriptions and characterisations of Christianity in Korea as being either unbiased or necessarily accurate.

Google it then because I guarantee you what I have said is 100% accurate and I guarantee you'll find people writing the same online. (for many of them). Please note I have always made a distinction between the 'moderates' (Catholic, Protestant, <Other churches, I really don't know the term, liberal Christians ?>) and the 'fundamentalists' (cross waving, anti-buddhist, bible literalists).

I really don't know what to call them. Give me some credit will you, I'm not anti-Christian, I'm anti-craziness.

Brainwashing (whether religious or atheistic) often has its desired effect.

But the same people say they don't/didn't believe in Juche. Just that it was pushed down their throats every day. If they believed it they wouldn't be defectors would they ?

PDN

monosharp wrote: »

But the same people say they don't/didn't believe in Juche. Just that it was pushed down their throats every day. If they believed it they wouldn't be defectors would they ?

That is a rather simplistic view.

Most people living under the Soviet System were delighted to escape from it - but the brainwashing still left them manifesting a higher percentage of atheism than would otherwise be expected. Dislike for a regime does not equate to rejecting everything that regime has taught you.