Would it be possible?

FishFood

I just have a quick query in general about the current structure of the RCC and whether or not you guys would feel it can or will change.

Basically where I am coming from is, as somebody who used to believe in the church and the religion and would like to again, I am wondering whether the Bible/doctrine allows for mass reform and change or is it too rigid?

If I was to take the example of child abuse by priests. I firmly believe that raising men in a culture of no sex, no relationships and no marriage/family will lead to a greater risk of these things happening with men being what they are. For me it would make far more sense to allow prospective and current priests to have relationships and would likely lead to more people willing to join the priesthood.

By the same token, do you ever see the Catholic church/religion accepting gay/lesbian unions or being fully up to date and current with modern society.

Now before anyone goes in to it I am not saying that they should be accepting of all of modern society, there are obviously elements that we all disagree with. But if the Church and religion as a whole simply were to allow the above and continue to preach the simple message of being good people then I have to say I think there wouldn't be half the problems we are seeing today and a whole lot more respect would be given.

The question is though, do you think any of the above can ever happen? I would hope it can, but are there instrinsic elements at the core of the belief that simply will never allow it?

PDN

FishFood wrote: »

I just have a quick query in general about the current structure of the RCC and whether or not you guys would feel it can or will change.

Basically where I am coming from is, as somebody who used to believe in the church and the religion and would like to again, I am wondering whether the Bible/doctrine allows for mass reform and change or is it too rigid?

The Catholic Church has reformed and changed the format of the mass already on a number of occasions, for example since Vatican II. It used to be in Latin, now is in the vernacular.

If I was to take the example of child abuse by priests. I firmly believe that raising men in a culture of no sex, no relationships and no marriage/family will lead to a greater risk of these things happening with men being what they are. For me it would make far more sense to allow prospective and current priests to have relationships and would likely lead to more people willing to join the priesthood.

As a non-Catholic looking on from the outside, I disagree personally with the idea of enforced celibacy. I think this rule will change eventually. I understand that married clergy from the Anglican Church are allowed to cross over to the Catholic Church - so that would indicate an acceptance that married guys can still do the job of a priest.

However, I think that you, and a number of other people who have posted on this in recent months, are wrong in seeing a link between celibacy and child abuse. Paedophilia is not caused by a frustrated unmarried man getting frustrated and seeking an outlet because he 'isn't getting enough'. Paedophilia, at its heart, is not about sex at all - it is about power. People with deep-rooted psychological problems and feelings of powerlessness seek to compensate for that by exercising power over others who are weaker than them - and the most powerless of all tend to be children.

In fact most paedophiles are married. Every time you hear a story (all too frequent in our society) of a father sexually abusing his children, remember that being married did not in any way stop him from being a child abuser.

Also, child abuse occurs in other denominations where clergy are married - we don't hear about it as much because:
a) Ireland is a predominantly Catholic country
b) Other churches tend to have a more democratic view of the clergy making it more likely that the child will report the incident and be believed, and less likely that a cover-up will operate.

Philip Jenkins, a sociologist and historian, has studied this in detail. He says 2% of adult males in the general population (most of whom are married) abuse a child at some stage in their life - the same percentage holds true among priests. Interestingly, statistically you have a much higher rate of child abuse occurring in the US public school system than in Catholic settings. So you are more likely to have children abused by a married sports coach or substitute teacher than by a celibate Catholic priest.

Like I say, I'm not a fan of enforced celibacy - but the available evidence does not support any link between celibacy and child abuse.

By the same token, do you ever see the Catholic church/religion accepting gay/lesbian unions or being fully up to date and current with modern society.

Accepting that such unions occur in society in general? Probably.

Knowing that church members practice such things and turning a blind eye to it (don't ask, don't tell) as they currently do with contraception or premarital sex? Possibly.

Accepting in the sense of saying that such unions are morally OK for Catholics, or even conducting ceremonies for such unions in the Catholic Church? No.

But if the Church and religion as a whole simply were to allow the above and continue to preach the simple message of being good people then I have to say I think there wouldn't be half the problems we are seeing today and a whole lot more respect would be given.

To the contrary, if the Catholic Church endorsed homosexual actions as OK then I think you would see no increased attendance or respect in countries such as Ireland. What you would see, however, is a massive exodus out of the Church, and a total loss of respect, in the parts of the world where it is currently growing (Africa and Asia). Hundreds of millions of Catholics would see such an action as a complete break with Biblical standards and would defect to other denominations.