Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

A few questions about religion.

Options
  • 05-03-2010 1:59am
    #1
    LoganRice
    Registered Users Posts: 424 ✭✭


    In religion class at school we've been covering heaven and hell etc. And in the end, I don't understand it.
    1. (heaven related) How on earth is there a mystical place of happiness and joy in the sky, known as "heaven"? It's meant to be peace of mind, but what if you didn't know anyone and weren't used to such happiness or even the whole idea of leaving planet earth to join in a wonder world?

    2. Wouldn't you be mentally scarred for eternity knowing that your
    corpse is rotting in a box under ground and that you're dead?

    3. If heaven is meant to be peace of mind, then wouldn't it make more sense if our conscience just shut down? Or even better, we are born again as new individuals, like Hinduism without the caste system.

    4.If God loves all living things, then why be sent to hell?

    Answers would be very much appreciated (although I doubt I'll get far) =]


Comments

  • Options
    #2
    Shield
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Help & Feedback Category Moderators Posts: 9,644 CMod ✭✭✭✭Shield


    You won't get far posting it on a Philosophy forum, so I'll move it to Christianity and hopefully you'll get some helpful insight there.

    Christianity mods: Moved from Philosophy with redirect.


  • Options
    #3
    monosharp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,981 ✭✭✭monosharp


    LoganRice wrote: »
    In religion class at school we've been covering heaven and hell etc. And in the end, I don't understand it.

    My personal opinion is that no one does, but I'm sure there'll be plenty of people telling you the 'facts' about heaven soon.
    1. (heaven related) How on earth is there a mystical place of happiness and joy in the sky, known as "heaven"? It's meant to be peace of mind, but what if you didn't know anyone and weren't used to such happiness or even the whole idea of leaving planet earth to join in a wonder world?

    Unless there's a lot of alcohol, cigarettes and pool tables I won't be very happy.

    But I 'think' the Christian belief is that when people go to heaven they are made better or changed somehow so what we 'think' would make us happy now is no longer relevant once we keel over.

    Warning: I'm not Christian so the above might be completely wrong.
    2. Wouldn't you be mentally scarred for eternity knowing that your
    corpse is rotting in a box under ground and that you're dead?

    Go to heaven = don't care about earthly things any more.
    3. If heaven is meant to be peace of mind, then wouldn't it make more sense if our conscience just shut down? Or even better, we are born again as new individuals, like Hinduism without the caste system.

    I like the shut down option. Or I wouldn't be opposed to re-birth.
    4.If God loves all living things, then why be sent to hell?

    Because he loves us but he is a jealous god who needs worship from his creations.


  • Options
    #4
    Fanny Cradock
    Registered Users Posts: 10,245 ✭✭✭✭Fanny Cradock


    monosharp wrote: »

    Because he loves us but he is a jealous god who needs worship from his creations.

    You don't learn do you? We have spoken about this before and I've even infracted you about it on another occasion. Yet here we are again.

    :mad:


  • Options
    #5
    Fanny Cradock
    Registered Users Posts: 10,245 ✭✭✭✭Fanny Cradock


    LoganRice wrote: »
    In religion class at school we've been covering heaven and hell etc. And in the end, I don't understand it.

    Welcome! I'll do my best to answer.
    LoganRice wrote: »
    1. (heaven related) How on earth is there a mystical place of happiness and joy in the sky, known as "heaven"? It's meant to be peace of mind, but what if you didn't know anyone and weren't used to such happiness or even the whole idea of leaving planet earth to join in a wonder world?

    I certainly don't believe that heaven is in the sky. I believe that the sky consists of several distinct layers that have varying concentrations of gasses, each of which has optical and physical properties.

    It is possible that the earliest Christians thought that God did dwell up there somewhere in the clouds. The concept of the firmament pre-dated Christianity and is discussed in the Torah (first 5 books of the Bible) - the Genesis account of creation is but to mention one reference. However, it is also possible that the same early Christians recognised this as we do today - figurative speech. I'm unsure. But given that Christianity has taught about revelation (that our understanding of God or the Bible is not static), I personally don't see a problem either way.

    I believe that heaven is a real place. It not a state of mind and it's not a happy feeling inside of you. One could postulate all sorts of hypothesis about what heaven is but it's rather pointless. I'm happy to say that heaven is not of this world, nor this universe. In short, it is God's dwelling place.
    LoganRice wrote: »
    2. Wouldn't you be mentally scarred for eternity knowing that your
    corpse is rotting in a box under ground and that you're dead?

    There might be some heated debate about this between Christians, but I actually think you are falling into the old platonic trap of dualism. Plato believed that the body and soul were two separate things, and that the ultimate goal of life was to escape physical existence. In order to explain this he conjured up the idea of a cave where a bright light behind people casts their shadows on the cave wall. The nub of this allegory is that physical existence (the shadows) is to be escaped and the heavenly reality that lies beyond is sthe bees-knees.

    Unfortunately this notion has been adopted by some of Christianity (certainly in the broad sense). The idea is that you live your 80 years here, then you die and then you go to float around on clouds in heaven playing harps or whatever. I could think of nothing worse, tbh!

    Instead, the earliest Christian (and I happen to share their view) believed that heaven is not the final destination, rather they awaited (and await) the "new heavens and the new earth". A physical (bodily) existence in a physical universe. The new heavens and the new are are the joining together of heaven and the universe. The pointer to this can be found in the Gospel accounts of Jesus after his resurrection. He was a physical being (he is described as eating and people could touch him) but he had also transcended his old body and was able to do some rather strange things.

    In short, like Jesus' body, I don't believe that mine will be rotting in the ground. The ultimate Christian hope (and Jewish, for that matter) is for the resurrection of all.
    LoganRice wrote: »
    3. If heaven is meant to be peace of mind, then wouldn't it make more sense if our conscience just shut down? Or even better, we are born again as new individuals, like Hinduism without the caste system.

    Heaven is not meant to be peace of mind. It is a place. Indeed, Christianity believes that heaven is God's dwelling place - somewhere free of sin and death. You can think about it as a separate dimension or whatever if it helps.
    LoganRice wrote: »
    4.If God loves all living things, then why be sent to hell?

    I'm not sure God is sending someone to hell (and be aware that there is some debate about what damnation actually means). I believe that God has a plan to make all things new - to put creation back on track. The whole reason behind Jesus doing what he did was because he acted as the recipient for our sin and ushered in the "new heaven and the new earth" that I previously mentioned.

    If you really want to know more about this then check out the following video/ audio download. I would be quite sure that it makes a lot more sense than above :pac:

    http://www.veritas.org/Media.aspx#/v/3 (part 1)
    http://www.veritas.org/Media.aspx#/v/180 (part 2)


  • Options
    #6
    kelly1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,026 ✭✭✭kelly1


    LoganRice wrote: »
    1. (heaven related) How on earth is there a mystical place of happiness and joy in the sky, known as "heaven"?
    I'd agree with FC, it's probably outside the universe or in a different "dimension". But it must be a place with some physicality because bodies do and will exist there after the general resurrection, although the bodies won't have the same physical properties as we're used to.
    LoganRice wrote: »
    It's meant to be peace of mind, but what if you didn't know anyone and weren't used to such happiness or even the whole idea of leaving planet earth to join in a wonder world?
    Chances are we'll meet people we knew and loved while on earth. Even if we didn't, we'd still have the company of the saints, Jesus and Mary. But far more importantly, we'd see the Beatific Vision (the "face" of God) and everything else would pale into insignificance. God's grace will give us the strength to exist in the infinitely holy presence of God.
    LoganRice wrote: »
    2. Wouldn't you be mentally scarred for eternity knowing that your
    corpse is rotting in a box under ground and that you're dead?
    No, becuase the body is only a vehicle for the soul and what we gain by being with God will far outweigh the temporary loss of our bodies, which we will regain (but much improved) at the resurrection.
    LoganRice wrote: »
    3. If heaven is meant to be peace of mind, then wouldn't it make more sense if our conscience just shut down? Or even better, we are born again as new individuals, like Hinduism without the caste system.
    Why would our conscience be a problem? If we get to heaven, it implies that our sins have been forgiven and our conscience will be clear and we'll have cause to rejoice in God's mercy.
    LoganRice wrote: »
    4.If God loves all living things, then why be sent to hell?
    I'm not sure the God sends anyone to hell. I believe that we choose hell ourselves by choosing to reject God intentionally. I believe that God is good and merciful and calls us to salvation. It's up to us how we respond. We are free to accept or reject God's mercy. It's important to remember that God's mercy is a great gift to us and should never be taken for granted. So those who reject God's mercy are not just rejecting a great gift but insulting God at the same time by not repenting for offences committed against Him. I don't think any of us understands what it truly means to sin and therefore how great God's mercy is.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    ISAW
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,142 ✭✭✭ISAW


    LoganRice wrote: »
    In religion class at school we've been covering heaven and hell etc. And in the end, I don't understand it.
    1. (heaven related) How on earth is there a mystical place of happiness and joy in the sky, known as "heaven"? It's meant to be peace of mind, but what if you didn't know anyone and weren't used to such happiness or even the whole idea of leaving planet earth to join in a wonder world?

    think about something which doe not exist in space ot time as we know it.
    Jean Paul Sartre the existentialist philosopher in his play about Hell ( he was a french atheist but the translation in ENglish is "in camera" or "no way out" or "wnclosed" in the sense of a court being "in camera" )
    suggests "Hell is other people!" . The charachters in the play are dead but don;t know it. They are annoyed by everything in the room such as the furniture but ultimately by each other. The past life affects each of them. for exampl a woman may be a adulterer and in love with a man who in turn is homosexual and in love with another man who was a coward and loves the woman. They burn with desires but always remain unsatisified.

    A similar idea is in Flann O Brien "Third Policeman" where a man is traveling around the country side in a constant state of confusion. Near the end of the book the scenery begins to repeat again and you realise he is in a living hell.

    The above point to Heaven and hell as states of grace or states of mind.
    The Bhuddists would ask "Who were you before you were born?" If you can think of yourself in this way you may disassociate your identity from the material world.

    Why should having material things on Earth be so important to you?
    How does on "get used to" happiness?
    2. Wouldn't you be mentally scarred for eternity knowing that your
    corpse is rotting in a box under ground and that you're dead?

    Only if you identify "living" with the material body.
    3. If heaven is meant to be peace of mind, then wouldn't it make more sense if our conscience just shut down? Or even better, we are born again as new individuals, like Hinduism without the caste system.

    Hmmm. You would be better if you had no free will or just no idea of Godd an evil. Tricky. oOn one hand you would not be human without free will. On the other you would be like Adam and Eve before the fall if you had no knowledge of good and evil. Technically they were in heaven. I suppose the idea is the quest to return to this state of grace having knowledge but choosing not to do evil.
    4.If God loves all living things, then why be sent to hell?

    Maybe he won't judge you so much as you judge yourself. Hae you read the Chronicals of Narnia. Take a look at the last Judgemant passage there and how people pass through the door to heaven or hell.
    Answers would be very much appreciated (although I doubt I'll get far) =]

    Answers would indeed be very much appreciated. Theology it seems hasn't got as far as you yet. :)

    http://bible.cc/matthew/11-25.htm


  • Options
    #8
    CuriousOne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 96 ✭✭CuriousOne


    LoganRice wrote: »
    In religion class at school we've been covering heaven and hell etc. And in the end, I don't understand it.
    1. (heaven related) How on earth is there a mystical place of happiness and joy in the sky, known as "heaven"? It's meant to be peace of mind, but what if you didn't know anyone and weren't used to such happiness or even the whole idea of leaving planet earth to join in a wonder world?

    2. Wouldn't you be mentally scarred for eternity knowing that your
    corpse is rotting in a box under ground and that you're dead?

    3. If heaven is meant to be peace of mind, then wouldn't it make more sense if our conscience just shut down? Or even better, we are born again as new individuals, like Hinduism without the caste system.

    4.If God loves all living things, then why be sent to hell?

    Answers would be very much appreciated (although I doubt I'll get far) =]

    Your questions are clearly formulated and you could probably answer them yourself.
    I suggest meditation.
    Lie down, close your eyes, breathe in through your nose for 1,2,3,4 seconds, hold for 2 seconds, and out through your mouth, for 1,2,3,4 seconds.
    Just concentrate on your breathing until you’re in a relaxed state, and just see what happens.
    Remember, try not to force it.
    I wish you the best of luck and hope you find your answers.:)


  • Options
    #9
    CuriousOne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 96 ✭✭CuriousOne


    monosharp wrote: »

    Go to heaven = don't care about earthly things any more.

    Remarkable, that is the most profound statement I’ve encountered since joining boards.ie. As you can see, I haven’t been here that long, but still.;)


  • Options
    #10
    Fanny Cradock
    Registered Users Posts: 10,245 ✭✭✭✭Fanny Cradock


    My advice to you is the same I give to all noobs: read the charter.


Advertisement