Scottish Teams Could Be Kicked Out Of Magners

cruiserweight

Sounds like an effort to get them to hurry up and agree to the entry of the Italians. It would be disastrous for Scotland if it were to happen

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/8550696.stm

Scottish teams Edinburgh and Glasgow could be kicked out of the Magners League by their Welsh and Irish counterparts, Scrum V understands.

The Celtic nations have fallen out over proposals for two Italian teams to enter the competition from next season.

The Scottish Rugby Union was due to meet on Thursday to discuss its stance on the Italian teams' entry.

A likely no-vote will prompt a swift response from Irish and Welsh chiefs, signalling the Scots' exit.

Scrum V has been told that all four Welsh regions and all four Irish provinces want the Italians, but the Scots have been privately accused of dragging their heels.

If the Scots announce their agreement to admit the Italians the league will be expanded to 12 teams from next season.

But if the SRU blocks the move, Scrum V understands the Welsh and Irish unions are considering the possibility of removing Glasgow and Edinburgh from the competition.

fs I wonder why the Scots are opposing it.

toomevara

Ah the SRU, never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity....delightful,

Podge_irl

I'm not a massive fan of the Italian entry into the ML, but I'm not quite so sure why the Scots are so against it. They're not gonna get kicked out of the ML though, the SRU won't allow it to reach that point, and it will do nothing for the league to kick out the two teams who probably take it most seriously.

thomond2006

The Scots fear the Italians entering the competition.

Fair play to Celtic Rugby forcing their hand, the Scots can't afford to be thrown out.

amacachi

Some excuse to do with fixture congestion/travel arrangements?

It'd be sheer idiocy not to get a couple of Italian teams in ASAP.

Podge_irl

thomond2006 wrote: »

The Scots fear the Italians entering the competition.

In what way? Edinburgh and Glasgow are two of the stronger teams in the ML these days. I would think the likes of Connacht and the Dragons would be more concerned. The only reason I can think of the SRU opposing the idea is because they have financial concerns with regards to travelling to Italy.

anonymous_joe

Podge_irl wrote: »

In what way? Edinburgh and Glasgow are two of the stronger teams in the ML these days. I would think the likes of Connacht and the Dragons would be more concerned. The only reason I can think of the SRU opposing the idea is because they have financial concerns with regards to travelling to Italy.

They made a massive deal out of flying to Dublin and not getting to play back in January.

thomond2006

Podge_irl wrote: »

In what way? Edinburgh and Glasgow are two of the stronger teams in the ML these days. I would think the likes of Connacht and the Dragons would be more concerned. The only reason I can think of the SRU opposing the idea is because they have financial concerns with regards to travelling to Italy.

It will mean the Italian national team will get stronger, they beat the Scots this year remember?

phog

Having the Italians in will help boost the TV audience too, Italy must be about 10 times the population of the Celtic nations, imagine what that might do for TV rights, sponsorship and future growth of the competition.

PhatPiggins

thomond2006 wrote: »

It will mean the Italian national team will get stronger, they beat the Scots this year remember?

You're not Jim Corr by any chance?

buck65

Podge_irl wrote: »

In what way? Edinburgh and Glasgow are two of the stronger teams in the ML these days. I would think the likes of Connacht and the Dragons would be more concerned. The only reason I can think of the SRU opposing the idea is because they have financial concerns with regards to travelling to Italy.

Replace Dragons with Scarlets I reckon. Most improved team in the league in the past 2 seasons. Tough test for Munster on Saturday.

bamboozle

Northern Hemisphere rugby needs this, if we want to have a healthy six nations we need competitive teams from scotland and italy, the introduction of 2 italian teams would nearly create a second division in the magners league of 5 or 6 teams who could all take points off each other.

Tim Robbins

amacachi wrote: »

It'd be sheer idiocy not to get a couple of Italian teams in ASAP.

Why? It's not as if the season is short and each team needs four extra games.

Tim Robbins

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Why? It's not as if the season is short and each team needs four extra games.

It means that fringe players will have more access to Magners rugby. 10 teams is a bit small for a league anyway.

murphym7

The SRU should be welcoming this - in fact they should try to get a 3rd Scottish team added to the league themselves. How is Scotland ever going to get back to fielding a strong national side again with just 2 teams playing professional rugby (real professional rugby). Scotland are lucky to still be competative at national level - they should in reality be hockied off the field (worse than they are now).

I welcome more Magners league fixtures - it will go towards building stronger squads all round. Magners league sides are creaking when the international boys are off. Which is fine now because teams can muddle through and have the time to undo the damage before the end of the season. More fixtures when the International boys are off will help develop players which can only be good at churning out more international players. Just my two cents.

justsomebloke

murphym7 wrote: »

I welcome more Magners league fixtures

why? there is already 2 more games this year with the playoffs for the top 2 teams and an another 4 if the Italians get in. That is a serious amount of time that has to be added into a season and in a year with a World Cup Teams are going to be highly stretched thus having to send out a lot of weekend teams so the standard of rugby seen would drop, Thus less people bothered about watching it

Tim Robbins

Deleted User wrote: »

It means that fringe players will have more access to Magners rugby. 10 teams is a bit small for a league anyway.

I think it's perfect. English and French teams play way too many games. Althought I think it's funny how the Magners Leagues are demanding that Italian teams converge to form stronger teams than their Heineken cup teams.

At the same Irish fans will give out that the standard of the Magners isn't high enough for them.

Sam2005

It would be great to see the Italians in the Magners, the excitement from the crowd on their Six Nations win was fantastic.

Frequent, professional games in magners would help to keep them in Six Nations and Internation rugby from a skills standpoint rather than just a handful of italians playing in the UK and France.

cruiserweight

murphym7 wrote: »

The SRU should be welcoming this - in fact they should try to get a 3rd Scottish team added to the league themselves. How is Scotland ever going to get back to fielding a strong national side again with just 2 teams playing professional rugby (real professional rugby).

They had three teams in the league and could not afford it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_Reivers_%28rugby%29. They also had a fourth team that played in the Heineken Cup http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caledonia_Reds Money is the big thing here, the SRU cannot support more than two teams at the moment.

Digifriendly

cruiserweight wrote: »

They had three teams in the league and could not afford it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_Reivers_%28rugby%29. They also had a fourth team that played in the Heineken Cup http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caledonia_Reds Money is the big thing here, the SRU cannot support more than two teams at the moment.

As article points out Borders were merged with Edinburgh and then resurrected. The original merging was in some people's opinion where the mistake was made. Borders was the hotbed of rugby in Scotland for many years and (despite financial difficulties the SRU was facing in running of 4 teams as article makes clear) probably should never have merged with Edinburgh. By 2002 when Borders were reinstated the damage had already been done and there was only one way the side could go - downwards. SRU have done rugby in Scotland a great disservice in way they have treated the Borders. Recent documentary on the late Bill McClaren showed the debt Scottish rugby owed to those from e.g. Hawick/Gala/Kelso etc. It's a crying shame no side now representing this area competes at a professional level. I wonder how many people travel up from the South of Scotland to see Edinburgh play at home in the ML and HC. Not too many I guess.

cruiserweight

Digifriendly wrote: »

I wonder how many people travel up from the South of Scotland to see Edinburgh play at home in the ML and HC. Not too many I guess.

Most times that I have been to either a Glasgow or Edinburgh game the attendance has been pretty poor. It seems to be a general lack of interest, the tickets are cheap, the games are generally on Friday night and do not clash with football. I would imagine that Partick Thistle probably get better attendances to their games in the same stadium

sock puppet

buck65 wrote: »

Replace Dragons with Scarlets I reckon. Most improved team in the league in the past 2 seasons. Tough test for Munster on Saturday.

Has the Italian playoff been cancelled this year and the lowest Welsh side is straight down into the ECC? I've thought it all season but I can't find anything confirming it.

thomond2006

sock puppet wrote: »

Has the Italian playoff been cancelled this year and the lowest Welsh side is straight down into the ECC? I've thought it all season but I can't find anything confirming it.

That's correct.

From a Connacht perspetive, bar another province winning the HEC the previous season, Connacht must finish above another Irish province in the Magners to qualify for the Heineken Cup
i.e. the top 3 placed Irish teams in the Magners League qualify the Heineken Cup.

Of course if Connacht win the ACC, it's another way of qualifying for the Heineken Cup.

Gav217

SRU Teams to be quite honest really have no real reason for opposing the entry of the two Italian teams. Maybe financial costs as was mentioned. They certainly should not be opposing them in terms of rugby playing ability. But it does bring something new to the ML. Some new faces even if they are Italian. We all know they are not the most exiting rugby players to watch, but who knows something might happen and they could change the face of the ML completely.

ALH-06

cruiserweight wrote: »

Most times that I have been to either a Glasgow or Edinburgh game the attendance has been pretty poor. It seems to be a general lack of interest, the tickets are cheap, the games are generally on Friday night and do not clash with football.

It's a complete indifference to the professional game. Very few Scottish rugby fans follow Magners League rugby. That's just the way it is... Having played rugby while in university over there, I was really surprised that team-mates who were rugby mad just didn't bother supporting Glasgow or Edinburgh. Never knew when they were playing / who they were playing. Hardly even watched the games on tv.

I'm worried about Scottish rugby. They still compete at Magners / international level not because the sport is strong, but because of the tradition and expertise in some clubs and schools. But these are few and far between. Playing numbers are tiny compared to Ireland and Wales and as the professional game continues to develop, the Scots will find it tougher and tougher to keep up to the standard. Professional rugby is just not working there. They've a great tradition but sadly it's one that is dying.

outwest

i read somewhere that each club would get 350k a years from the sky italia tv money, that a nice bit of money for connacht if it was to happen. edenbrugh and glasgow could also do with getting that kind of money each year.

theKramer

Whats the story with the £3m that Magners were looking for the Italian teams to put up before they joined? Did the Italian teams come up with that money or was that requirement shelved, as it was totally ludicrous?

sock puppet

theKramer wrote: »

Whats the story with the £3m that Magners were looking for the Italian teams to put up before they joined? Did the Italian teams come up with that money or was that requirement shelved, as it was totally ludicrous?

Think they came up with the money.

Podge_irl

theKramer wrote: »

Whats the story with the £3m that Magners were looking for the Italian teams to put up before they joined? Did the Italian teams come up with that money or was that requirement shelved, as it was totally ludicrous?

The Italians came up with the money and it wasn't totally ludicrous (though the manner in which the whole thing was handled was a bit off). The current teams need to be compensated for the expenses of away trips to Italy as well as putting on two further home games that will likely attract rather paltry attendances (at least at first). It's unlikely the SRU could easily afford to be sending Edinburgh and Glasgow to Italy and have them playing 4 extra games a season without some kind of monetary aid.

chupacabra

Sky Italia came up with a €3m tv deal that covered the money that the ML was looking for. The scots wont leave the ML, they would have nowhere to go where they could be any way competitive and you would see scottish rugby completely fall apart as a result. Each team in the ML stands to earn a €250,000 "bonus" if the italian deal gets pushed through so their excuse of not wanting to pay extra money to travel to away games is ludicrous.

murphym7

Podge_irl wrote: »

The Italians came up with the money and it wasn't totally ludicrous (though the manner in which the whole thing was handled was a bit off). The current teams need to be compensated for the expenses of away trips to Italy as well as putting on two further home games that will likely attract rather paltry attendances (at least at first). It's unlikely the SRU could easily afford to be sending Edinburgh and Glasgow to Italy and have them playing 4 extra games a season without some kind of monetary aid.

Correct me if I'm wrong - is the 3M just a deposit held by the Celtic league? And the money given to the other teams come's from somewhere else? I really don't know, just wondering really. Thought I heard that somewhere.

Podge_irl

murphym7 wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong - is the 3M just a deposit held by the Celtic league? And the money given to the other teams come's from somewhere else? I really don't know, just wondering really. Thought I heard that somewhere.

Sounds vaguely familiar actually now that you mention it. The whole affair seems oddly clouded in secrecy though (though perhaps that's just inept management rather than deliberate).