New 5% buff in ICC, not working?

TheDoc

Has anyone raided ICC with the new raid buff, wondering if anyone actually noticed the increase.

I ran a quick 25 man first wing last night, and although I was mostly focused on pulling through an inept bunch to saurfang, I didnt notice my dps increasing.

I usually pull between 6.5k-7k in afflic and about 1kdps less in demo. Was noticing I was doing pretty much the same, if not in some cases less ( possibly due to me focusing on other people other then my job).

5% should make things a bit better, but i maybe it was due to a **** group, but the buff just wasnt noticed at all.

Magill

http://www.wowmeteronline.com/combat/12641037#damageout



yeah... i noticed it slightly....

But ofc... the lower your dps the less likely you are to notice it, should be like a 300 dps increase for you ? its not mind blowing tbh.

TheDoc

Magill wrote: »

http://www.wowmeteronline.com/combat/12641037#damageout



yeah... i noticed it slightly....

But ofc... the lower your dps the less likely you are to notice it, should be like a 300 dps increase for you ? its not mind blowing tbh.

I have a good icc10 man group tonight in which I'm soley dps so I can get a better estimation of whats going on.

LOL @ when that 30% buff gets realised

Magill

yeah idd. my gear isnt even that great atm, im sure a "GOOD" ele shaman with full 264 gear is probably already pushing out 11-12k dps on fights like saurfang + festergut. So when it gets to 30% thats like what... 15k dps ? It'll feel like going with an extra 3 or 4 players in 10 man and 7 or 8 in 25.

Overheal

who cares? Whole thing sounds like a crutch.

Anti

It is a bit stupid. but for people with the whole place on farm it just means it can be speeded up a bit for them. For the people who are still progressing and wiping at 1/2% it means they can finially down a boss.

TheDoc

The good raid groups seem to burst their way as far as sindragosa, then take time on that and lich king.

So as you described the boost is simply, a boost.

And blizzard have made no quams about wanting to have everyone who wants to raid, able to clear ICC before it becomes obsolete, which I think is a nice addition.

If your epic skills, you can just turn it off, but for farm groups etc it will save some time

Verudandi

Buff is currently "bugged". It is not working on pets or on some abilities, for example discipline priests shield. No one knows if it will be fixed. If not, disco priest will be lacking their best spell

Blowfish

TheDoc wrote: »

LOL @ when that 30% buff gets realised

I'd say they most likely won't have it at that until 4.0 though, so you'll only get a couple of resets worth of it before Cata.

Dustaz

Its working alright and its utter bs.


To harp on a similar theme to recent threads, i remember when raid content was HARD. Regardless of whether you think ICC is difficult or not, Blizzard have now nerfed the ENTIRE instance before a single guild has cleared it. Not only that, they nerfed it before anyone had even cleared it TEN MAN*.


For gods sake, i went ICC10 last night with 'decent' alts last night (we refer to alts as 'good' 'decent' and '****ters' for the purpose of doing alt raids - good means about 5-5.4k gs if i can use that convention for ease of description) and we cleared to sindragosa and would have had sindra if we gave it another hour. We had one healer who was in our main guild which helped alright (and as such we were able to do heroic lolship - heroic?? thats another moan right there) but god, even the 5% buff means a big difference in whos able to clear what.

In tbc, they had one of the most difficult raid instances ever created in sunwell. That place was so hard it killed guilds. lots of them. Each fight in it took weeks to get right and was gear-checky and raid-checky in equal measure. It was very very hard and not many guilds saw it. Then patch 3.0 came out and provided a buff to players AND they nerfed it. THATS how they should be catering to everyone who wants to see the content. Let the content challenge people and when a new tier comes and the content has been beaten, THEN nerf it.

One of the really annoying side effects of all this is that now it makes progression very difficult on our server for another reason. ICC was so accesible anyway, every pug and their mother comes in on reset night, thursday night and sunday night to do their 4/12 run. Thats an extra 1000 or more people in the instance than they had previously had to handle. each of those people using recount, power auras, DBM and other mods that send and recieve information. Guess what happens? Yeh, massive massive lag to the extent that we actually called our raid the other day untill 10pm so we could try and make some progress without lag.

Im glad that <My Horse Is Amazing> are getting to do their 4/12 runs, i really am. They pay the same sub that i do and theyre getting to see and do fun fights that they never were. All I want to knos is why cant blizzard give us more instance servers to allow for this?


PS Full disclosure, we still havent killed LK25 normal yet due to roster issues, terrible terrible terrible setups (our rogues seem to have gone awol - 1 stun for valks ) and mostly wasting 2 hours a night with horrific lag as described above. Anyway, were still '****ters' and will benefit from the buff and kill it tonight probably. The point is we dont actually need it and would rather not have it but theres really NO incentive to turn off the buff other than 'e-peen++'


* Sorry 10 man guilds - your content is a lot easier, its just a fact.

wonderboysam

Dustaz wrote: »

Its working alright and its utter bs.


To harp on a similar theme to recent threads, i remember when raid content was HARD. Regardless of whether you think ICC is difficult or not, Blizzard have now nerfed the ENTIRE instance before a single guild has cleared it. Not only that, they nerfed it before anyone had even cleared it TEN MAN*.


For gods sake, i went ICC10 last night with 'decent' alts last night (we refer to alts as 'good' 'decent' and '****ters' for the purpose of doing alt raids - good means about 5-5.4k gs if i can use that convention for ease of description) and we cleared to sindragosa and would have had sindra if we gave it another hour. We had one healer who was in our main guild which helped alright (and as such we were able to do heroic lolship - heroic?? thats another moan right there) but god, even the 5% buff means a big difference in whos able to clear what.

In tbc, they had one of the most difficult raid instances ever created in sunwell. That place was so hard it killed guilds. lots of them. Each fight in it took weeks to get right and was gear-checky and raid-checky in equal measure. It was very very hard and not many guilds saw it. Then patch 3.0 came out and provided a buff to players AND they nerfed it. THATS how they should be catering to everyone who wants to see the content. Let the content challenge people and when a new tier comes and the content has been beaten, THEN nerf it.

One of the really annoying side effects of all this is that now it makes progression very difficult on our server for another reason. ICC was so accesible anyway, every pug and their mother comes in on reset night, thursday night and sunday night to do their 4/12 run. Thats an extra 1000 or more people in the instance than they had previously had to handle. each of those people using recount, power auras, DBM and other mods that send and recieve information. Guess what happens? Yeh, massive massive lag to the extent that we actually called our raid the other day untill 10pm so we could try and make some progress without lag.

Im glad that <My Horse Is Amazing> are getting to do their 4/12 runs, i really am. They pay the same sub that i do and theyre getting to see and do fun fights that they never were. All I want to knos is why cant blizzard give us more instance servers to allow for this?


PS Full disclosure, we still havent killed LK25 normal yet due to roster issues, terrible terrible terrible setups (our rogues seem to have gone awol - 1 stun for valks ) and mostly wasting 2 hours a night with horrific lag as described above. Anyway, were still '****ters' and will benefit from the buff and kill it tonight probably. The point is we dont actually need it and would rather not have it but theres really NO incentive to turn off the buff other than 'e-peen++'


* Sorry 10 man guilds - your content is a lot easier, its just a fact.

know*

Dustaz

/villa

Magill

Agreed dustaz, i dont see why they couldnt have left this silly buff for another 2 or 3 months. What blizzard is doing is so stupid, they're excuse for it being that they want everyone to experience the content.... but really all they're doing by making it this much easier is making older raid instances like ulduar + naxx obsolete.

In TBC there was still guilds doing kara/scc/mh etc when sunwell was released. The only reason not many ppl seen sunwell was because they released it to near wotlk. If they had another few months, then im sure alot more guilds would have seen it, esspecially with the nerfs etc.

For me, progression is what makes this game interesting, but the way they're designing raids now, i'll have killed everything in just a month or so (If you dont include hardmodes, alot sooner), leaving another 4 or 5 months until we get some new content. So all they're doing is making it harder on themselves to keep ppl interested.

I seriously dont get whats wrong with the how they did it in TBC.. what they could have done was maybe give a 10-20% buff when the next tier of raiding was released, and get rid of this stupid ****ing badge system.

KilOit

Notice it alriight, the day before patch we killed Festergut HM the kill was perfect no deaths no one taking goo and just about done it 1 second before enrage, now we done it again and even with afew cock up's we still killed it with 5% dmg increase.

TechnoPool

Magill wrote: »

Agreed dustaz, i dont see why they couldnt have left this silly buff for another 2 or 3 months. What blizzard is doing is so stupid, they're excuse for it being that they want everyone to experience the content.... but really all they're doing by making it this much easier is making older raid instances like ulduar + naxx obsolete.

In TBC there was still guilds doing kara/scc/mh etc when sunwell was released. The only reason not many ppl seen sunwell was because they released it to near wotlk. If they had another few months, then im sure alot more guilds would have seen it, esspecially with the nerfs etc.

For me, progression is what makes this game interesting, but the way they're designing raids now, i'll have killed everything in just a month or so (If you dont include hardmodes, alot sooner), leaving another 4 or 5 months until we get some new content. So all they're doing is making it harder on themselves to keep ppl interested.

I seriously dont get whats wrong with the how they did it in TBC.. what they could have done was maybe give a 10-20% buff when the next tier of raiding was released, and get rid of this stupid ****ing badge system.

Badge system is great

TheDoc

WEll nothing is going to change I'm afriad, and reading that interview in relation to the blizz 5 year anniversary, he stated how his biggest design regret was not making the end game content, thats in wotlk, the same as the previous tiers in relation to accessability.

So my taking is that things are only going to get easier for people to initially get into.

They feel the heroic modes are enough of a challenge to the higher skilled guilds.

I think it just comes down to two different camps of player, who are pretty much differencing on opinion. We can see each others side of the arguement, but we dont want to stand over there.

If wotlk was the same as TBC and Vanilla, I just wouldnt be raiding end of. And I would have lost alot, the new friends I've made, the self progression I've made and pretty much falling back in love with this game.

On the other hand, those finding it easy, are probably falling out of love with the game.

I trust Blizzard, alot and I mean alot. I was there in the Warcraft 3 days when the game was lobsided stacking one race, where maps were so imbalanced, but they stook at it, they tried and tested, and they got it right.

Lets not remember they got it spot on with Starcraft.

What they have here is a game that isnt a simple stragety. There is not just 4 races with specific units. They have all these classes, and millions of people trying to make that class better, coming up with new **** that might make one class jump ahead of the rest.

Its a losing battle in terms of balancing classwise. And that does spill over. However they have gradually over the years opened the end game raiding scene to the casual player.

25man pugs are still failing to get past 4/12 on outland, still. 10 mans are making progression, but 25mans, the real content if you will, is still stuck at 4/12, so I still don't agree its that easy.

When a guild full of elite players who have have opportunities of gathering gear at a faster pace then say for example me, they are going to do better.

Easier accesible content is here to stay, and if anything get more so in Catajizm. Its a fact being stated by developers, its going to happen. And yes, this buff is in a way, an aid for the more casual.

But even the term "casual" needs to be defined. Am I for example a casual or hardcore player? That question can probably be best anwsered by Dustaz, but for those outside the realm. Here is some current information.

ICC 10 man - Cleared to LK
ICC 25 man - Cleared to Professor Put
80 Druid with 4pc T10 and 5.5k Gs
80 Warlock with 4pc T10 5.5k GS
80 DK with 4pc T9 and 1 pc T10

I raid three times a week and I log onto WoW every day.

The only part missing there is a guild.

Hardcore and Casual used to be easily defined, I used to be casual in TBC and Vanilla. I logged on the same amount, but i didn't bother grinding pots and mats, res gear and attunements. It was boring. But some people did. Guilds spent ages doing this ****.

I got pissed off with WoW, finding it so boring, I came back about 2 months before wotlk, got my char to 70, and then did some content. However I couldnt see illidan until the buff to classes and nerf to instances.

Now in wotlk I put effort in since moving to outland and I'm up to current content, with two cracking characters.

The debate will rage on, and they will fine tune it, to a point where things like tier gear and killing bosses mean something again. But its trial and error and wont happen overnight.

Magill

TheDoc wrote: »

WEll nothing is going to change I'm afriad, and reading that interview in relation to the blizz 5 year anniversary, he stated how his biggest design regret was not making the end game content, thats in wotlk, the same as the previous tiers in relation to accessability.

So my taking is that things are only going to get easier for people to initially get into.

They feel the heroic modes are enough of a challenge to the higher skilled guilds.

I think it just comes down to two different camps of player, who are pretty much differencing on opinion. We can see each others side of the arguement, but we dont want to stand over there.

If wotlk was the same as TBC and Vanilla, I just wouldnt be raiding end of. And I would have lost alot, the new friends I've made, the self progression I've made and pretty much falling back in love with this game.

On the other hand, those finding it easy, are probably falling out of love with the game.

I trust Blizzard, alot and I mean alot. I was there in the Warcraft 3 days when the game was lobsided stacking one race, where maps were so imbalanced, but they stook at it, they tried and tested, and they got it right.

Lets not remember they got it spot on with Starcraft.

What they have here is a game that isnt a simple stragety. There is not just 4 races with specific units. They have all these classes, and millions of people trying to make that class better, coming up with new **** that might make one class jump ahead of the rest.

Its a losing battle in terms of balancing classwise. And that does spill over. However they have gradually over the years opened the end game raiding scene to the casual player.

25man pugs are still failing to get past 4/12 on outland, still. 10 mans are making progression, but 25mans, the real content if you will, is still stuck at 4/12, so I still don't agree its that easy.

When a guild full of elite players who have have opportunities of gathering gear at a faster pace then say for example me, they are going to do better.

Easier accesible content is here to stay, and if anything get more so in Catajizm. Its a fact being stated by developers, its going to happen. And yes, this buff is in a way, an aid for the more casual.

But even the term "casual" needs to be defined. Am I for example a casual or hardcore player? That question can probably be best anwsered by Dustaz, but for those outside the realm. Here is some current information.

ICC 10 man - Cleared to LK
ICC 25 man - Cleared to Professor Put
80 Druid with 4pc T10 and 5.5k Gs
80 Warlock with 4pc T10 5.5k GS
80 DK with 4pc T9 and 1 pc T10

I raid three times a week and I log onto WoW every day.

The only part missing there is a guild.

Hardcore and Casual used to be easily defined, I used to be casual in TBC and Vanilla. I logged on the same amount, but i didn't bother grinding pots and mats, res gear and attunements. It was boring. But some people did. Guilds spent ages doing this ****.

I got pissed off with WoW, finding it so boring, I came back about 2 months before wotlk, got my char to 70, and then did some content. However I couldnt see illidan until the buff to classes and nerf to instances.

Now in wotlk I put effort in since moving to outland and I'm up to current content, with two cracking characters.

The debate will rage on, and they will fine tune it, to a point where things like tier gear and killing bosses mean something again. But its trial and error and wont happen overnight.

You raid 3 nights a week ? But your not in a guild ?


Too me, it sounds like you just dont like a challenge and just want moar and moar epix.

TheDoc

I'm well up for a challenge

I was in a poor ten man guild that did over 80 attempts on rotface with no success, 50 attempts on fester with no success.

I raid with the irish lads at specific times and then I pug everything else.

Dustaz

Magill, Doc is pretty typical of the average raider on our server these days. There are a lot of people who would previously be defined as casuals who pug content all week long.

Don't get me wrong. I LIKE the fact that end game raiding has opened up. Its great that (i)some(/i) content has opened up and is so easy to pug now. There hasnt been a healthier time for the game since it started. Its great to be able to log to a decent geared alt and play with friends outside of your guild for laughs. I think badge gear is a great idea (although i think its probably a bit powerful considering you get it from heroics and year old raid content whch is trvial now)

My gripe is twofold. Blizzard are nerfing ICC before its been cleared and well before its time. Stuff used to be nerfed when 1000 guilds had it on farm. I dont know how many guilds are 9/11 hard mode but i doubt its more than 100 so for the other 900 guilds, the carpet has sort of been swept from under them.

Secondly, with the extra amount of people raiding, the lag on full servers has become stupid. Somehow people are STILL able to transfer to outland even though weve had a lot of FCM and its been marked full since the start of wotlk.


Oh and Doc, lots of pugs go more than 6/12. There was one every friday which did 10 regularly.

TheDoc

Dustaz wrote: »

Oh and Doc, lots of pugs go more than 6/12. There was one every friday which did 10 regularly.

Give me the pug leaders name, I'm just renowned to doing 4/4 and then leaving

Dustaz

I would but he jumped in front of a train last saturday morning :eek: