Escorts

monkeysox

Just wondering what do people think about Gardai escorting Ambulances.

1. I'd like to hear Paramedic views
2. I'd like to hear the Garda perspective
3. I'd like to know how much this happens around the country, and for what reasons. I mean, what clinical reason, if any.

Just interested, I've had a few occasions where I have been escorted.
I have mixed feelings about it.

pa990

maybe you could expand on what exactly your mixed feeling are, and which situations you were/were not happy with

Shield

What are your mixed feelings?

I can tell you that it's not done as a matter of routine in the PSNI, so when an escort IS authorised, you can be sure it's serious.

Incoming related rant: People, if you see an ambulance receiving a slow moving police/Garda escort, please be patient. It's moving slowly because the paramedics need a slow and smooth ride to give critical and often life-saving treatment to someone who is in serious trouble.

Also, if you see an ambulance receiving an escort through red lights and so on, you can be sure it's done solely to get the injured party to hospital in the fastest possible time, again usually because every second counts.

[/rant]

Zambia

psni wrote: »

What are your mixed feelings?

I can tell you that it's not done as a matter of routine in the PSNI, so when an escort IS authorised, you can be sure it's serious.

Incoming related rant: People, if you see an ambulance receiving a slow moving police/Garda escort, please be patient. It's moving slowly because the paramedics need a slow and smooth ride to give critical and often life-saving treatment to someone who is in serious trouble.

Also, if you see an ambulance receiving an escort through red lights and so on, you can be sure it's done solely to get the injured party to hospital in the fastest possible time, again usually because every second counts.

[/rant]

I thought it was because you could not get those landrovers over 50Kmph

Shield

Zambia232 wrote: »

I thought it was because you could not get those landrovers over 50Kmph

Well if you get a good wind behind you and you're going down a hill, it's been rumoured to hit 30mph...

monkeysox

Mixed feelings...
well I see the benefit and have had occassion where it has been a benefit, ie thru heavy rush hour traffic with a sickie on board.

On the other hand I've had situations where the escort was completely OTT, example, I didn't request an escort (or need one) and before I knew it I had 4 patrol cars in front of me!

I'm not blaming the Gardai, I know colleagues of mine who are OTT when it comes to requesting escorts, they often phone the Gardai themselves rather than request via ambulance control, and in fairness to the Gardai they will oblige, no questions asked.

Also, I have been escorted on motorways! By TC mondeo who I imagine are looking in the mirror wondering why I'm driving so slow!
Sometimes people forget that we are driving trucks! This also happens when a family member drives to a RVP to escort us to a house, they think we're rally drivers and they boot away ahead of us.

I'm just interested to hear others views. I certainly don't have an issue with the Gardai and am not loking for an argument.

boomer_ie

Having been an attendant for the transfer of a sick child to Crumlin Hospital (escort was a Garda 4x4 and a Motorbike) I nearly found myself going through the front window (from the back of the ambulance) after a double decker bus pulled out from a bus stop BEHIND the garda 4x4 and in front of our ambulance.

Luckily enough I managed to stop myself from going too far. Other drivers do not expect a second emergency vehicle to be following behind the first one and do not look before pulling straight out. It should be noted that I never requested the escort, it was the driver unknown to me!

supermedic

They occasionally have a part to play. In my experience they are almost more trouble than they are worth and are potentially very dangerous for the gardai, hse staff and road users.
I would wonder why a private ambulance service provider with no hse contract was transporting a sick child with a garda escort ??

boomer_ie

supermedic wrote: »

I would wonder why a private ambulance service provider with no hse contract was transporting a sick child with a garda escort ??

2 small points, It was not as part of a PAS that I was doing the transport, HSE contracts are not required to transport sick individuals to hospital from events

supermedic

So can I take it the transport was for another private provider or a voluntary organisation, all of which have strict no transport rules in place for many years unless the vehicle is staff by phecc registered paramedics

boomer_ie

supermedic wrote: »

So can I take it the transport was for another private provider or a voluntary organisation, all of which have strict no transport rules in place for many years unless the vehicle is staff by phecc registered paramedics

Stop jumping to conclusions, this pre-dates PHECC

I cant remember exactly when it was but I can remember the general details.

Hooch

supermedic wrote: »

So can I take it the transport was for another private provider or a voluntary organisation, all of which have strict no transport rules in place for many years unless the vehicle is staff by phecc registered paramedics

Having Paramedics on board for transport only came in June last year......not years ago.

supermedic

Thanks NGA, but best practice for the vols for years has been to call stautory services for anything other that the most minor. No vol org would condone a transport of a sick kid by a vol crew with a garda escort except in the most extreme of circumstances

boomer_ie

supermedic wrote: »

Thanks NGA, but best practice for the vols for years has been to call stautory services for anything other that the most minor. No vol org would condone a transport of a sick kid by a vol crew with a garda escort except in the most extreme of circumstances

Again thats a post PHECC thing more so, prior to PHECC and indeed for some time after PHECC was set up, it was up to the on duty crew whether to transport or not.

As I pointed out the driver decided to organise an escort off his own bat, it was NOT needed and had I been aware he was organising it i would have told him to cancel it.

Turner

Any member of the public (in an emergency) can contact 999 and request Garda assistance in getting to a hospital or maternity unit.

You will be amazed at how many Gardai will and do respond to such requests.

However just because Gardai may bring you through red lights, if you get hit or cause an accident its totally your fault!! (as it is for Gardai who do the same)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqIULBufb48

donvito99

Chief--- wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqIULBufb48

Strange hi-low sirens in that video.

Elessar

nice guy always wrote: »

Having Paramedics on board for transport only came in June last year......not years ago.

What directive is this? Link? I don't believe PHECC have published the rules on who can transport what and who can't. It's all CPGs.

moose112

supermedic wrote: »

So can I take it the transport was for another private provider or a voluntary organisation, all of which have strict no transport rules in place for many years unless the vehicle is staff by phecc registered paramedics

Minimum requirement for transport is a phecc registered EMT. I think an ambulance crew with none on board may transfer with the permission of ambulance control, but I am open to correction on that last point.

PappaBoy

Moose112 proof for the EMT statement?
NGA my understanding is the Paramedic directive is for AS1 responses.


There is nothing to stop any vol blue lighting it to hospital should they deem it necessary, short of an organisations guideline I am aware of no organisation that has said this to any member.

That being said, my preference would be to have an AP come meet me if I would be considering a light run.

EDIT: Just thought I should delve in on the OP, I'm not all in favor of escorts, however I'm not a Garda so with a a pinch of salt, one car is ineffective you need a number of cars or bikes that will stop the traffic moving out until all units have passed. I'm sure there is a proper way to do it and its not one car...

paraletic

monkeysox wrote: »

I'm just interested to hear others views. I certainly don't have an issue with the Gardai and am not loking for an argument.

...your not looking for an argument, but the rest of boards.ie is.


from a paramedics perspective, i only ever had an escort once, first it was grand, but the garda disapearead over the horizon, and when the garda coped that we couldnt keep up, and drove ambo speed, other road users weren't expecting us and would try pulling out.
i wouldn't ever blame people for not expecting lights and sirens and there was never any brakes slammed etc.

so i suppose i have mixed feelings about it too. - it seems a bit riskier but if the gardai are really good and trained etc, then they are prob a good help. but how much time will the escort get you.

one2one

Chief--- wrote: »

Any member of the public (in an emergency) can contact 999 and request Garda assistance in getting to a hospital or maternity unit.

You will be amazed at how many Gardai will and do respond to such requests.

However just because Gardai may bring you through red lights, if you get hit or cause an accident its totally your fault!! (as it is for Gardai who do the same)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqIULBufb48

They're my two videos. The first one was when a Dublin Bus broke down on Dame Street/Junction with Georges Street. The place was in bits for hours!!

monkeysox

paraletic wrote: »

...your not looking for an argument, but the rest of boards.ie is.

ha ha... thats the beauty of starting a thread... then you sit back and watch the mudfight!

maglite

Depends on how its done.

The idea of a multi car or bike makes me feel more secure than a single car. That said, as a vol I woudl GREATLY prefer the HSE to come out, I don't fell I can provide any level of care to the pt while tearing down the road. Beside the number of things that can be improved by a blue light run from my point of view are limited.


Just finished watching Secret Diary of a call girl; had a different escort in my head.:(

miju

supermedic wrote: »

So can I take it the transport was for another private provider or a voluntary organisation, all of which have strict no transport rules in place for many years unless the vehicle is staff by phecc registered paramedics

did that not only come in last year from PHECC CPGs and AFAIK voluntaries are allowed transport with EMT up under those same CPGs

boomer_ie

Its Paramedic only crews for 999 calls and EMT and upwards for Vol transport.

maglite

The EMT transport requirement has not yet been implimented.

Hooch

maglite wrote: »

The EMT transport requirement has not yet been implimented.

PHECC implimented it but withdrew it.......they then sent "recommendations" to HSE in regards Paras being on all transports.....ever wondered why most private ambulances have laid off staff since last June?? And are only doing private insurance work??

maglite

I have little knowledge of what the privates are doing. I do know at least 2 Vols are still transporting with their "historic" EFR EMFRs on board. On a practical level the HSE would be flooded at the weekends if EMT was required. I'm in favor of the EMT requirement but more time is needed before it can work.

TylerIE

The HSE NE AS (perhaps NE AMB Service at the time) did send round a memo a few years ago advising hospitals not to book escorts directly for transfers.... as the Ambulance service had invested heavily in audio visual warning equipment in recent years.... and that if the hospital feels an escort is necessary to request control to arrange same.

Iv had car escorts on a few occasions, mainly for shorter distances, by local (non traffic) marked and indeed unmarked vehicles and didnt find it much use. With the Garda sirens being pretty crap (I think cause they are stuck in the middle of the engine) on most of the cars, and the unmarked vehicles have hardly any lighting, I think we would have been better on our own. as they have to nudge their way through then the we do and if any distance between us at lights people start driving again after the GS vehicle goes through.

Iv also had traffic bikes (3) do an escort for a longer trip on motorway, onto m50 at around 8am weekday and through city traffic which facilitated a smooth trip with no unnecessary braking or stopping/starting... On another occasion I had 2 bikes and did notice the difference - a lot more stopping and starting....

The textbooks would suggest that escorts are a bad idea as people do not expect a second vehicle, and that did happen with the cars.... however with the bikes it wasnt an issue.

Escorts should only be done with the bikes in my opinion. The reason being that the ones that usually do it are trained in escorts. I've seen them up here in Dublin and they are great. (Ambulance's, VIP's, Sports Teams, Private vehicles). There should be a minimum of 3. The bikes are better because they can zoom on to the next junction to block traffic.

meathstevie

Sometimes the person in the ambulance could be crimescene or a victim in need of continious protection.