Privatize An Post

SLUSK

The Irish Economy is suffering from terrible deficits. Selling out and privatizing An Post would probably plug some of those holes.

I don't see why the post office has to be a state owned company. There is no need to use snail mail for much these days anyway. I mean you can get your bills and pay them online. If you need to seen something you can use UPS, DHL or some other company. I see no need for a state owned post company at all.

QuiteInterestin

I think you're about 26 years out of touch, An Post is a semi state body and operates as a Limited Liability company. It ceased to be a state owned company when it was created back in 1984 from the Dept of Posts and Telegraphs (P and T). Employees of An Post (unless employed by the P and T before 1984) are not civil servants (i.e. not government employees). I'm not sure how much money it receives from the government, but from its financial review http://www.anpost.ie/AnPost/Annual+Reports/Annual+Report+2008/Financial+Review/
it turned over €33.2 million profit in 2008 so its definatly doing a bit better then other government funded projects at the moment ( i.e. banks).

An Post itself has been privatised to a certain degree as the counter service provided in some post offices operate as a franchise of An Post. I don't think privatising the postal delivery service is the way to go. Many private couriers charge far more to deliver parcels then An Post and while may be willing to deliver to urban areas I doubt many would be interested in delivering to rural areas as houses are so far apart and would be unlikely to make enough of a profit.

Joey the lips

SLUSK wrote: »

The Irish Economy is suffering from terrible deficits. Selling out and privatizing An Post would probably plug some of those holes.

I don't see why the post office has to be a state owned company. There is no need to use snail mail for much these days anyway. I mean you can get your bills and pay them online. If you need to seen something you can use UPS, DHL or some other company. I see no need for a state owned post company at all.

Another daft stupid theory without any back up to support it..... Your too late by the way. The european community issued a directive and the postal market will be open this year.

So go ahead and privatise it.... But guess what.... No one will want to buy it....


And for your next theory.....:rolleyes:

questionmark?

SLUSK wrote: »

The Irish Economy is suffering from terrible deficits. Selling out and privatizing An Post would probably plug some of those holes.

I don't see why the post office has to be a state owned company. There is no need to use snail mail for much these days anyway. I mean you can get your bills and pay them online. If you need to seen something you can use UPS, DHL or some other company. I see no need for a state owned post company at all.

Sorry but your wrong.

1. as another poster pointed out its a semi -state body.

2. Yes you can get your bills online but would you like to tell me how many people in this country do not have broadband.

3. If your lucky enough to have broadband in your area but happen to not to be be able to afford it or just happen to by a OAP that thinks a mobile is too much tech to handle how do you receive bills?

4. If it was privatized how many rural dwellers would be deemed to be on non- profitable routes and would have the service removed.

5. Its making a profit so yes its good.

6. For the most part delivery is not snail pace either.

7. They hold the sociol welfare payments contract would you like a private company to have access to this info?!?

donkey balls

DHL are owned by Deutsche Post who are the german version of AN POST FEDEX/UPS are global logistics companies who deal with airfreight&express logistics shipments.
how many people can afford to send a leter to the USA at 50e a pop and just to let you know that AN POST ships certain express shipments through one of the above named companies.

I got a guitar from Thomann (Germany) during the week. They shipped a Guitar (7KG) and amp (10KG) for €15 from Germany to Ireland.

A lens for my camera from Dublin to Drogheda cost €9.50.

Now, I'm not very knowledgeable on the workings of postal services, but surely with those prices, An Post are turning a huge profit, and therefore are the Good Guys in the war against the recession?

donkey balls

Deleted User wrote: »

I got a guitar from Thomann (Germany) during the week. They shipped a Guitar (7KG) and amp (10KG) for €15 from Germany to Ireland.

A lens for my camera from Dublin to Drogheda cost €9.50.

Now, I'm not very knowledgeable on the workings of postal services, but surely with those prices, An Post are turning a huge profit, and therefore are the Good Guys in the war against the recession?

some companies would have a big discount regarding shipping compared to a once off shipper,thats a great price to have something that weight&size to be shipped though

ardmacha

There is no need to use snail mail for much these days anyway.

Given the above then there is unlikely to be a pot of gold in An Post in any case. The ESB would seem a better place to raise some real money.

silverharp

ardmacha wrote: »

Given the above then there is unlikely to be a pot of gold in An Post in any case. The ESB would seem a better place to raise some real money.

its not even about raising money. The primary goal should be to make the domestic economy more competitve which will create more jobs in the long run. The ESB, An Post and RTE for example only exist by legally extorting money from the general public while producing shoddy services or services that people dont even want.

ardmacha

The ESB, An Post and RTE for example only exist by legally extorting money from the general public while producing shoddy services or services that people dont even want.

I think your ideology is causing you to conflate two things. These services are wanted by the public and used by them, it is a separate question as to whether they would be more efficient if under private management.

As for extortion, nobody is forced to use electricity from the mains, watch TV or post letters.

silverharp

ardmacha wrote: »

I think your ideology is causing you to conflate two things. These services are wanted by the public and used by them, it is a separate question as to whether they would be more efficient if under private management.

Dont you think that for most services the private alternative would be more efficient. Not much difference between an airport and a shopping centre but somehow we wouldnt want gov. run shopping centres?
Also in this case talking about RTE how can the 2 points be seperated. You would be arguing that RTE can more efficently provide services that people dont want (to pay for)?

Pappacharlie

Privatisation is a failed policy!
Keep An Post as it is. Look what happened to Telecom Eireann -Eircom. Plundered by capitalists ran into the ground. No investment in the network and straddled with massive debts. There are numerous examples of this failed policy across the Irish sea. Privatisation gives short time gain but long term pain.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Idbatterim

could the social welfare and motor tax not be administered by a private operation? How about prisons and prison transfers?

donkey balls

Pappacharlie wrote: »

Privatisation is a failed policy!
Keep An Post as it is. Look what happened to Telecom Eireann -Eircom. Plundered by capitalists ran into the ground. No investment in the network and straddled with massive debts. There are numerous examples of this failed policy across the Irish sea. Privatisation gives short time gain but long term pain.

+1 i worked for a private company who was sold more than three times within two years and each company cherry picked what part of the operation they wanted.

RGS

AN Post has a Universal Delivery Obligation which states it is obliged to deliver to all houses in the state on a daily basis and for the same price.

Certain Postal items are being opened up to the likes of UHL/FEDEX shortly but they wont deliver from Cork to Donegal for the same rate as An Post. They will cherry pick and undercut An Post in Dublin leaving the rest of the country to An Post. Thats not fair competition.

Personally all companies should be expected to play by the same rules of Universal Obligation. One price for the entire country.

deelite

Just a quickie regarding An Post - how come they have the Social Welfare Payments sewn up - does this "contract" not go out to tender - as it is my belief that shops like Tesco and Dunnes would love to be able to pay out these payments - it would be keeping the money and the people spending in their shops....

djk1000

donkey balls wrote: »

DHL are owned by Deutsche Post who are the german version of AN POST FEDEX/UPS are global logistics companies who deal with airfreight&express logistics shipments.
how many people can afford to send a leter to the USA at 50e a pop and just to let you know that AN POST ships certain express shipments through one of the above named companies.

And some Irish courier companies have been known to ship their parcels with An Post when they are going to the arse of nowhere, an post have to accept them and deliver them whether they are profitable or not.

I think that the economic downturn has led to people lashing out at the public/semi state sectors. The question is, do you want everything to be efficiently and privately run for a profit, all the time, everywhere? Or is there scope to leave in public hands (our hands), some services which play an important role in society and to hell with the few quid they'd make for the economy if privatised.

donkey balls

the likes of FEDEX/UPS couldnt be arsed in domestic services think about it the two compaines are the bigest transport operators in the world who happen to be american bluechips.if they were interested they would go after the US market.(actually one of the above hauls domestic air mail for
USPS).

no doubt there will be smaller companies bidding for certain services and as RGS said leave the crap behind that still has to be delivered, a bit like putting the routes that dub bus operate out to tender what you would have is companies taking the profitable routes and leave the ones where there is less pax on board to the govt to operate.

silverharp

RGS wrote: »

AN Post has a Universal Delivery Obligation which states it is obliged to deliver to all houses in the state on a daily basis and for the same price.......
Personally all companies should be expected to play by the same rules of Universal Obligation. One price for the entire country.

Maybe "universal obligation" provisions need to be abolished being wasteful.

BluntGuy

I'm not against privatisation, but I am against the way it is done in this country.

There strikes me as no real need for An Post to privatised any further. It runs a fairly good service, and as you may have noticed, unviable rural branches close all the time. So it does sufficiently operate like a business.

There are some things I'm afraid you just can't go completely private on without people losing out. Private is not the answer to everything.

RGS

Silverharp2 wrote: »

Maybe "universal obligation" provisions need to be abolished being wasteful.

Abolishing Universal Obligation would mean the cost of delivering post would increase, post would only be delivered once a week, especially in rural ireland.

the local postman in rural areas is a link with our isolated citizens.

Do we want to abolish this vital public service.

jimmycrackcorm

RGS wrote: »

Abolishing Universal Obligation would mean the cost of delivering post would increase, post would only be delivered once a week, especially in rural ireland.

the local postman in rural areas is a link with our isolated citizens.

Do we want to abolish this vital public service.

I have to agree - I think An Post is not the worst when it comes to sime-state inefficient business.

silverharp

RGS wrote: »

Abolishing Universal Obligation would mean the cost of delivering post would increase, post would only be delivered once a week, especially in rural ireland.

the local postman in rural areas is a link with our isolated citizens.

Do we want to abolish this vital public service.

who picks up the tab? also I'll assume we have less then efficient settlement patterns due to government "making" it sustainable to live a mile from the nearest main road? isnt it about time to stop creating waste and dead cost in the economy?

View

RGS wrote: »

Abolishing Universal Obligation would mean the cost of delivering post would increase, post would only be delivered once a week, especially in rural ireland.

Well, what do you get in the post these days apart from bills and junk mail? The days of people sending each other letters on a daily basis are long gone.

Seriously, since even the most isolated person needs to go to the shops to buy groceries, why shouldn't your post be delivered there for you to collect it at the same time (either to an in-store counter or an adjacent P.O. Box such as are used all over the US)?

RGS

View wrote: »

Well, what do you get in the post these days apart from bills and junk mail? The days of people sending each other letters on a daily basis are long gone.

Seriously, since even the most isolated person needs to go to the shops to buy groceries, why shouldn't your post be delivered there for you to collect it at the same time (either to an in-store counter or an adjacent P.O. Box such as are used all over the US)?

The Universal Obligation is part of an EU directive and can only be changed by the EU who have not shown any inclination to alter the directive.

WalterMitty

It wouldnt raise much. An post like all other semi states or state coompanies (whatever their legal status) are run for the benefit of the employees first and foremost. Remember the an post strike in 2004? i remember reading about the outdated work practises in a newspaper article back then. Many postmen were doing their deleiveries in four hours and gettign paid for their 8 hour shift but also doing a 2nd delivery round for the day within their normal 8 hour shift and getting overtime for it! There was numerous other work practises that only served to boost the pay of workers and drive up cost of doing business. They also have a 500million pension deficit that gov will likely have to fund

View

RGS wrote: »

The Universal Obligation is part of an EU directive and can only be changed by the EU who have not shown any inclination to alter the directive.

A good response but:
a) the EU has twice altered the original directive. The first directive was 97/67/EC. We are currently on the third postal directive 2008/06/EC. So directives can and are changed.
b) there is no reason why someone can't advocate changes to the Universal Obliagation to be included in a future fourth postal directive - altough they obviouly may not succeed in convincing people about their proposed changes!
c) the first directive - which appears to define the Universal Obligation - states:

CHAPTER 2

Universal service

Article 3

....

3. They (i.e. the member states) shall take steps to ensure that the universal service provider(s) guarantee(s) every working day and not less than five days a week, save in circumstances or geographical conditions deemed exceptional by the national regulatory authorities, as a miminum:

- one clearance,

- one delivery to the home or premises of every natural or legal person or, by way of derogation, under conditions at the discretion of the national regulatory authority, one delivery to appropriate installations.

Any exception or derogation granted by a national regulatory authority in accordance with this paragraph must be communicated to the Commission and to all national regulatory authorities.

Link is here: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:31997L0067:EN:NOT

My reading of that is, should a national regulatory authority designate "appropriate installations" to which deliveries can be made, then the member state can fulfill its Universal Service obligation even though they do not deliver to the home.

Such a change would need to be communicated to the Commission and the other national regulatory authorities but that isn't a major obstacle.

Perhaps, I am totally mistaken in myinterpetation but it would appear to me that a national regulatory authority could designate sub-post office, p.o. boxes or even in-store collection counters as "appropriate installations" for deliveries and deliver to those "installations" instead. After that it would be up to the customers to make their way to those installations to pick up their post.