Helmets, safer due to the psychology of motorised drivers?

CramCycle

Just a question, I have been cycling around Dublin for 10 years now and have only started wearing a helmet in the last 3. The one thing I've noticed and this could be a coincidence is that when my helmet is on, cars notice me, with exceptions of course. But the incidences of cars blindly pulling across me or driving into me or turning in front of me has been drastically reduced. To a level where I actually am statistically unlikely to have an accident (this is an opinion, to clarify). Is there anyone else who feels or has noticed this. Do cars pay more attention to you or notice you more because you wear a helmet? If so, what are the reasons?

niceonetom

I always wear a helmet while riding and have done for a while, so I don't have a frame of reference for comparison, but there has been some research that suggests that drivers actually drive closer to helmeted cyclists while overtaking.

In other situations it was simply be a visibility issue. Is your helmet enormous and high-viz-yellow by any chance?

tomasrojo

niceonetom is right about the research, but it's just one study and a limited one a that. Ian Walker of University of Bath did it.

http://www.bath.ac.uk/news/articles/archive/overtaking110906.html

My personal experience, for what it's worth (very little), is that since I stopped wearing a helmet a few years back I have encountered less aggression from other road users. It may be just my imagination or prejudices misleading me.

tomasrojo

Ken Kifer mentioned on one of his pages that other cyclists had claimed to him that they felt more visible when cycling with a helmet. I'll see whether I can find that page for you. Ken Kifer was very sceptical.

tomasrojo

http://www.kenkifer.com/bikepages/lifestyle/myths.htm

The more common (major) helmet myth is that a helmet can prevent accidents. When I first saw statements of this nature, I assumed that the writers carelessly expressed themselves, meaning to say instead that a helmet can prevent injury; however, I have personally communicated with cyclists who truly believe that wearing a helmet helps to keep an accident from occurring. For this concept to be at all logical, it must have a cause and effect relationship, but I can discover none. Two have been suggested: 1) motorists will be more careful around a person wearing a helmet and 2) motorists will more easily see a person wearing a helmet. However, a safety vest would be a stronger reminder to be careful and would be much more visible, and yet these cyclists fail to see the need for safety vests. Personally, I find it hard to believe that a yellow helmet would be more visible than a yellow cap or that a motorist could spot the difference between the two.

CramCycle

I was thinking more along the lines of sub-consciously drivers recognise a helmet, making the head more prominent/visible and they maybe realise that they should take more caution.

I realise it sounds sketchy at best.

I don't believe that helmets prevent accidents, I just notice that I am surrounded by people more observant of the rules of the road when I wear one, whether this be due to the helmet or just luck I do not know.

My helmet is Grey, horrendously ugly and big but there is no hi-vis on it. Maybe it's the ugly part that extremely hormonally, unbalanced drivers see, And they then treat me as no threat to their chances of reproducing and can't be bothered knocking me down.

petethedrummer

I dunno, you might be just cycling with more anticipation and accident avoidance with your increased experience.

iregk

tomasrojo

CramCycle wrote: »

I was thinking more along the lines of sub-consciously drivers recognise a helmet, making the head more prominent/visible and they maybe realise that they should take more caution.

The opposite has been argued by Ian Walker (and others) though; that they see you are "well protected" and take less care. I think these things are hard to argue either way. People's motivations are shadowy and vague, even to themselves.

BostonB

Odd unnatural shapes attract the eye. Which is why camouflage tries to break up hard edges with soft lines etc. Maybe that's a factor. Maybe your just thinking of it more now.

72hundred

As with all relationships, there are huge amounts of confounders in the case. Actually the case of cycling helmets is a perfect example of this. For instance, and there numerous ones.... can it be said conclusively that people who wear helmets don't also put more lights on their bikes? And any safe effect or not is of as result of this.

blorg

I pretty much always wear one myself these days and I don't think it makes any difference in that way.

niceonetom

72hundred wrote: »

can it be said conclusively that people who wear helmets don't also put more lights on their bikes?

Well, we are free to say whatever we like. Whether we are correct or not is another matter.

Saw a guy on a brakeless fixie wearing a helmet today. What's that about?

"shadowy and vague" indeed.

CramCycle

72hundred wrote: »

can it be said conclusively that people who wear helmets don't also put more lights on their bikes? And any safe effect or not is of as result of this.

I have had lights on my bike from long before the helmet, so I think my opinion is covered in that the helmet IMO is the only thing that has changed, significantly. People still seem to want me dead, or injured, in about the same number per km cycled as from the early days (when I don't wear a helmet).

72hundred

niceonetom wrote: »

Whether we are correct or not is another matter.

The joy of the internet forums!

I'm not really that up on study design for bike safety or anything along those lines. But I think if you're going to look at this you've to throw out all retrospective studies and ideally start a RCT. And double blind trials on cyclists doesn't sound like a good idea!

IM0

when you say "when I wear a helmet" do you also mean your wearing bright coloured kit, or just in civis as normal, if its the former then theres your answer.

niceonetom

72hundred wrote: »

The joy of the internet forums!

I'm not really that up on study design for bike safety or anything along those lines. But I think if you're going to look at this you've to throw out all retrospective studies and ideally start a RCT. And double blind trials on cyclists doesn't sound like a good idea!

Hmm. We'd need a placebo helmet for starters... then we'd have to come up with a way of making sure that no driver could tell if the cyclist was wearing a real helmet or one of the controls... could be tricky.

72hundred

niceonetom wrote: »

Hmm. We'd need a placebo helmet for starters... then we'd have to come up with a way of making sure that no driver could tell if the cyclist was wearing a real helmet or one of the controls... could be tricky.

Haha, perhaps - maybe just maybe we could make it work! This is definitely a good idea though.

CramCycle

me@ucd wrote: »

when you say "when I wear a helmet" do you also mean your wearing bright coloured kit, or just in civis as normal, if its the former then theres your answer.

Civies are the times I am referring to. When I wear my full gear, people avoid me more cause i stand out like a oompa loompa in a crowd of emos

irishmotorist

CramCycle wrote: »

Just a question, I have been cycling around Dublin for 10 years now and have only started wearing a helmet in the last 3. The one thing I've noticed and this could be a coincidence is that when my helmet is on, cars notice me, with exceptions of course.

tomasrojo wrote: »

My personal experience, for what it's worth (very little), is that since I stopped wearing a helmet a few years back I have encountered less aggression from other road users. It may be just my imagination or prejudices misleading me.

I've carried out a study and found that in recent years, motorists tend to notice cyclists more, regardless of headwear, and give more room than previous to that.

Personally though, I don't give the study mentioned above much credit. It's limited in it's own right, but one thing that stands out for me is the other factors that could have influenced the outcome that weren't a factor. I think that you really need a lot of people involved in that sort of study for a long time. I know that on the same cycle that I do, wearing the same clothes with the same lights, some days I'll have somebody nearly sideswipe me, others drive out of side roads in front of me, possibly pedestrians run across the road in front of me etc. etc. etc. On other days it will be as if everybody had a quick flick through the rules of the road over breakfast and decided to behave sensibly on the road.

I think incidents tend to be quite arbitrary and the focus of debate would be more pragmatic on whether a helmet offers protection in the event of an incident. We've been there before though and we won't get an agreed opinion

Slideshowbob

Could it be the case with drivers:

I hit a guy without a helmet - must have been his fault as no helmet so cyclist doesn't care about himself

Whereas:

I hit a guy with a helmet - someone wearing a helmet is cautious, responsible and takes care - I better take care if I hit him they will see him as innocent!?

petethedrummer

Its cos you look like a mentallist with a helmet on so they give you wide berth. If you don't wear a helmet you look cool, so people want to be near you.

Lumen

Yay! Helmet debate, I have so missed you. What have you been up to all winter? Riding much? Me, not so much. Trapped inside on the turbo for the most part. Don't need a helmet for that, although I sometimes wear my pointy one when using the TT bike, if there's a mirror handy. Too cold outside at the moment to commute with a helmet, woolly hat won't fit underneath. Anyway, take care and lets do lunch sometime.

monument

CramCycle wrote: »

Just a question, I have been cycling around Dublin for 10 years now and have only started wearing a helmet in the last 3. The one thing I've noticed and this could be a coincidence is that when my helmet is on, cars notice me, with exceptions of course. But the incidences of cars blindly pulling across me or driving into me or turning in front of me has been drastically reduced. To a level where I actually am statistically unlikely to have an accident (this is an opinion, to clarify). Is there anyone else who feels or has noticed this. Do cars pay more attention to you or notice you more because you wear a helmet? If so, what are the reasons?

From your location I'm guessing you're cycling in Dublin?

The Dublin City Council traffic counts for the canal area show a 74% increase in cyclists for the morning rush hour between 2004-2009. A 12% increase was counted between 2008-2009.

Safety in numbers is a well established theory which has been proven over and over again for cyclists and pedestrians. When there are fewer cyclists or people walking then motorists will not be looking out for them. On the other hand if cycling and walking is common place motorists will be far more likely to expect them.

Maybe you're experiencing a benefit of safety in numbers? Maybe motorists are noting more cyclists, rather reacting to anything you do?

irishmotorist

Lumen wrote: »

Too cold outside at the moment to commute with a helmet, woolly hat won't fit underneath.

Woolly hat? Doesn't sound like you're trying hard enough :pac:

CramCycle

I agree with "Irishmotorist" here. You should be pushing yourself harder, Clothes are for the weak :rolleyes: but seriously you can get a Buff pretty cheap 12euro from CRC or a condomhat/beanie for a fiver in pennies

doozerie

Yet another possible factor to consider is whether more cyclists are now wearing helmets and whether that is making those that don't more, or less, noticeable. I wonder, for example, whether a motorbiker would be given more or less space on the road if he wasn't wearing a helmet?

In relation to the Ian Walker study above, I seem to recall reading an article about that study close to the time that he did it and I think it included a comment from Walker saying that the study was by no means conclusive and would require a lot more investigation before it could be considered anything more than a talking point i.e. basically he was saying that from a scientific point of view no conclusions could be drawn from such a relatively small study. I haven't been able to find such a comment in any of the subsequent reports that I have read though, so either I imagined it, or else it has suited the media reporting on it to portray the study conclusions as a lot more black and white than Walker himself did. I haven't read the full report of the study but it is available online though I could only find a source which charged for it.

This article by the Bicycle Helmet Safety Institute raises some interesting questions about certain aspects of the study, and they include a response from Walker to some of their concerns. The discussion is not conclusive either, and the BHSI have a stated bias in favour of helmets, but it makes for more interesting reading than many of the simplistic reports on the study. The BHSI site is a useful site for anyone considering buying a helmet, by the way, as they review a variety of helmets each year. They are a US body so they review helmets available over there, but some of them are available here too, and their discussion of the various helmet standards is interesting - in short, the european standard is not as good as the US standard, while they described the Australian standard as possibly being even better than the US one.

I've consistently worn a helmet for many years now and haven't really noticed any difference to my level of safety. Towing a child trailer seems to make drivers take more care around you though, so I expect Gerry Breen to insist that all cyclists reproduce at once "for your own good, ye feckers!". Maybe the ultimate safety measure though is not to wear a helmet but to sport Jedward hair. That'd keep every other road user well away from you. Or maybe they'd deliberately run you over, I'm not sure - I'll leave that for others to investigate.

blorg

I have a little beanie type hat I got from Decathlon that fits easily under a helmet and works very well. For colder days (much colder than at the moment) I use a Descente Balaclava. Again it is very thin but extremely warm, more so than wooly hats I have used.

droidus

Jawgap

tomasrojo

doozerie wrote: »

Yet another possible factor to consider is whether more cyclists are now wearing helmets and whether that is making those that don't more, or less, noticeable.

I suspect that we'll get nowhere discussing this anyway. We really have no evidence, either way.

doozerie wrote: »

This article by the Bicycle Helmet Safety Institute raises some interesting questions about certain aspects of the study, and they include a response from Walker to some of their concerns. The discussion is not conclusive either, and the BHSI have a stated bias in favour of helmets, but it makes for more interesting reading than many of the simplistic reports on the study. The BHSI site is a useful site for anyone considering buying a helmet, by the way, as they review a variety of helmets each year.

My understanding is that the BHSI is largely a one-man operation run by a man called Randy Swart. It's very much a helmet-law promotion body. That said, its reviews could be excellent. It just seems to have a blind spot when it comes to population-level statistics.

doozerie wrote: »

Towing a child trailer seems to make drivers take more care around you though, so I expect Gerry Breen to insist that all cyclists reproduce at once "for your own good, ye feckers!".

That's good to hear, as I will, Deo volente, be doing the same myself soon. I have noticed greater caution when I use a goods trailer, so I had hoped for the same with a small-person trailer.

doozerie

tomasrojo wrote: »

I suspect that we'll get nowhere discussing this anyway. We really have no evidence, either way.

My understanding is that the BHSI is largely a one-man operation run by a man called Randy Swart. It's very much a helmet-law promotion body. That said, its reviews could be excellent. It just seems to have a blind spot when it comes to population-level statistics.

That's good to hear, as I will, Deo volente, be doing the same myself soon. I have noticed greater caution when I use a goods trailer, so I had hoped for the same with a small-person trailer.

Yeah, I can't begin to imagine how any study into the knock-on, so to speak, effects of wearing a helmet could produce meaningful results. There are far too many factors involved to make such a study feasible, I expect. I mentioned the sight of a motorbiker without a helmet only because I started to wonder myself whether I'd leave them more room or not if I spotted them while driving. It would be a very odd sight in this country so at the very least I'd probably be guaranteed to see them. It doesn't have any relevance for cycling though as cyclists are a mixed bag of helmet wearers and non-helmet wearers. Cycling naked might make us more visible though...

I'd wondered about who/what was behind BHSI, as their site says "Volunteer staff Consumer-funded" which is a bit vague. I've found them a useful source of info in the past although certainly biased in their views of the importance of helmets. I wouldn't base a decision on whether to use a helmet on their website (for a start their links to data sources are on a separate page from their statistics page, which seems to discourage the lazy from checking the sources, and some of the links are broken), but if I was planning to buy a helmet anyway I'd have a look through their guides and reviews.

As regards the child trailer, one thing that has consistently surprised us is that many people seem to actually recognise it for what it is before they ever see the child inside. That's obviously a good thing as hopefully it encourages other traffic to be more cautious. I haven't used it much myself as yet but when I have I've found that cars hang back further behind and give more space when they overtake. What it did seem to show up on a couple of occasions though was the poor judgement of some drivers, or an overestimation of their own driving ability maybe - they'd stay well back and then keep well over to the right when overtaking, but they didn't allow enough room ahead to pull back in comfortably before some impending obstacle or a blind bend so they'd have to pull back in suddenly. They were never so close to me as to cause a collision, but that was through luck more than any good driving on their part. They presumably thought they were driving safely and considerately, even while demonstrating bad driving. But so far so good though, at the very least the trailer has been very convenient.

tomasrojo

Thanks, doozerie.

Bit OT, but do you find splashback from the rear wheel manks up the front of the trailer? I've added home-made mud-flaps to my bike (très Euro), but I've only got the mudflap to about "three o'clock" on the rear wheel. I'm having a think about how to keep the front of the trailer clean, since it doubles as a stroller and I think I'll bring it into town and conspicuously do some "high-end shopping" for the baby, to overcome opposition to the Bus Gate.