New Born Lambs

mrc678

I have a small farm holding and have ewes lambing at the moment.
Can I leave the new born lambs out at night or are they better off inside.
Would foxes or dogs attack lambs even if ewe there to protect in field.

Any advice gretly appreciated.

Marc

Conor

Moved from the Help Desk.

Indubitable

I bring mine into a shed because two foxes can get the lambs off a ewe quite easily. One distracts the ewe while the other moves around and grabs the lamb. If she has twins, when she turns around to check where a lamb has gone they will then take the other one.

We keep ours in the shed and shine a powerful light down the field even when they are inside and shoot the foxes. I see about 4 or 5 a night on the road near my house.

Mountain sheep are very good at minding their lambs but they never have twins

johngalway

kingofthe3rdyrs wrote: »

Mountain sheep are very good at minding their lambs but they never have twins

Dunno who told ya that. I've mountain ewes and have a fair percentage of twins, just depends on the care they get.

johngalway

mrc678 wrote: »

I have a small farm holding and have ewes lambing at the moment.
Can I leave the new born lambs out at night or are they better off inside.
Would foxes or dogs attack lambs even if ewe there to protect in field.

Any advice gretly appreciated.

Marc

This next paragraph is my opinion.

I'd shoot any dog on my land this time of year (which I have cleared with the cops before anyone decides to saddle a hobby horse ). Ewes are heavy in lamb and leaving aside the issue of a ewe being ripped/drowned/put off the edge of a cliff/etc. the stress of being worried by dogs would be enough to have them lose lambs. Dogs will also kill lambs given the opportunity.

My sheep are outdoors 100% of the time, I have no shed of my own besides a small one for any poorly animal.

Foxes will kill lambs, a lamb is a dopey easy meal for a fox. If you are worried about this, there are lads over in the shooting/hunting section (under Sports) who regularly shoot foxes. There may be someone near you doing this depending on what part of the country you're in.

Mine will be lambing in about three weeks or so, so I have started to reduce the numbers of foxes local to me now.

If you're unsure of the number of foxes in your area I'd advise contacting one of those guys. Farmers local to you simply may not admit to, or know, thye're losing lambs to foxes. Though larger scale fox predation is pretty obvious with bodyparts and skins spread about the place.

Indubitable

johngalway wrote: »

This next paragraph is my opinion.

I'd shoot any dog on my land this time of year (which I have cleared with the cops before anyone decides to saddle a hobby horse ). Ewes are heavy in lamb and leaving aside the issue of a ewe being ripped/drowned/put off the edge of a cliff/etc. the stress of being worried by dogs would be enough to have them lose lambs. Dogs will also kill lambs given the opportunity.

I only kill dogs if they start terrorising the sheep. I know one dog that crosses through a few fields to get from one house to the other. The sheep are now used to him and ignore him and he didn't do any damage at the start, so he can live. I had to get a man's dog put down after he killed one of my lambs :mad:

johngalway

kingofthe3rdyrs wrote: »

I only kill dogs if they start terrorising the sheep. I know one dog that crosses through a few fields to get from one house to the other. The sheep are now used to him and ignore him and he didn't do any damage at the start, so he can live. I had to get a man's dog put down after he killed one of my lambs :mad:

Between tourists and locals in this area we've had enough expierence of ripped and drowned sheep to decide to prevent the problem before it happens. As I say, had a long chat one day with the local cop and got a few things straight about the whole thing. It's not the cost of losing the animals, it's the stress on them and the stress on us getting them cared for, and then doing the after care. Not nice to be tube feeding an adult ewe that's after having it's jaw stitched back on or puling dead hoggets out of streams. Signs are up and to be honest while it's not the dogs fault, their owners have fcuk all value on their pets letting them loose in places they've no business being in. As always "My dog wouldn't do that" :rolleyes:

By the by, think I had 30% twins last year, just remembered the figure

whelan1

from an incident we had last year you are 100% entitled to shoot a dog worrying cattle or sheep but not if they are chasing a child:eek:

Username John

mrc678 wrote: »

I have a small farm holding and have ewes lambing at the moment.
Can I leave the new born lambs out at night or are they better off inside.
Would foxes or dogs attack lambs even if ewe there to protect in field.

Any advice gretly appreciated.

Marc

Are you asking can you lamb them inside and then leave them out straight away, or lamb them outside?

What type of sheep do you have? And what type of ram did you have?

If lambing outside you would need a very sheltered field, and need to check em as early as possible in the mornings. But theres other people here who would be able to tell you a lot more about lambing outside than I can.

We have a few sheep, and we always bring them in for lambing. Its more to do with management as much as anything else. So we can keep an eye on them, as best we can anyways. Plus, a lot of our fields are open, and tis very cold weather for any poor sheep lambing outside in the open this weather.

My opinion - I think if you have the shed, and the fodder - be as easy to bring em in close to you. Their chances would be better inside, be warmer & safer.

Username John

A bit off topic - but half related to this subject.

Right now - we bring in all sheep before lambing, and keep em in. This means we have em in for maybe 2 - 3 weeks.

I was thinking of setting it up next year so the sheep would have access to grass, but would be fed in the evening in a shed. So they would be brought in every night. But they would be free to come and go from the field / shed as they please.

If we were to do this - what are peoples opinions as to whether all the sheep would lamb indoors? Would they stay in the shed to lamb, or would you still have sheep lambing outside in the field in middle of the day? As mentioned above, the fields we have are open enough (and the one beside the shed is north facing)

Thoughts? Would we still have sheep lambing outside do ye think?

wiggy123

its hard to know..like when a ewe is ready to lamb she will..
but i do think,only my opinion! animals normally giive birth,after there fed..
like say Evening feeding--will lead to more day births and vice versa..maybe i'm off the mark here! but i do see that-with my suckler cows,this few years..
feed at evening time mainly--calve during the day(2/3 ratio)

johngalway

I reckon they'd head out the field to lamb, but it's just a guess. Most of mine will lamb in the same spot, or very close to it each year.

Username John

wiggy123 wrote: »

its hard to know..like when a ewe is ready to lamb she will..
but i do think,only my opinion! animals normally giive birth,after there fed..
like say Evening feeding--will lead to more day births and vice versa..maybe i'm off the mark here! but i do see that-with my suckler cows,this few years..
feed at evening time mainly--calve during the day(2/3 ratio)

We feed in the mornings now, and the sheep lamb mostly during the day, so far anyways. But we only have a few sheep, so not sure its enough to make a good statistic
The main rule they seem to follow is - when you're especially busy, or in the middle of something, or in a rush to go somewhere - then they start to lamb. Not when yer around the yard doing small jobs while keeping an eye on em

Username John

johngalway wrote: »

I reckon they'd head out the field to lamb, but it's just a guess. Most of mine will lamb in the same spot, or very close to it each year.

Really - you think they'd head out? That's a new one - most people I have asked to date, say the majority would stay in, but some would lamb outside, if they lamb in the middle o the day.

What breed of sheep do you have John?

johngalway

Blackface hill sheep John.

tabby aspreme

if you dont have a shed to put them in you could fence off a corner of a field or small area near the house or yard to put the twins into for a few days after lambing , first born twin is at greatest risk when the ewe is having the second lamb as she is too busy to defend off fox at night or grey crows magpies in day light , i lamb indoors, singles go out usually within a few hours twins at 2 days old if all is ok, i find ewes lamb before feeding and shortly afterwards and at dawn, and the one sure time they will lamb is just as it starts to rain if the weather has been dry for a few days , my biggest lamb losses were to mink two years ago as the ewes generally stand up to the foxes though ewe lambs and hoggets not so good . DOG assasination is my favorite hobby, it always takes place on my own land various methods are used and owners are never warned as that is a waste of time and leads to sheep being attacked in a few months when owners get careless about the dogs again and the dogs are often farm dogs

Indubitable

whelan1 wrote: »

from an incident we had last year you are 100% entitled to shoot a dog worrying cattle or sheep but not if they are chasing a child:eek:

You could always pretend there is a sheep there

whelan1

just got a call there are dogs after the neighbours sheep - not our dog - they have them cornered in the river the bast**ds

Indubitable

whelan1 wrote: »

just got a call there are dogs after the neighbours sheep - not our dog - they have them cornered in the river the bast**ds

say hello to Mr. Rifle?

Indubitable

My sheep/cattle dog runs on 3 legs because he is so fast (put one foot inside his collar). He was sent out to bring in the sheep and one went into the lake. First thing i could think of was i am not going to see you again. The dog jumped into the lake with 3 legs and swam around the sheep and scared it out of the lake. It was unbeievable, I expected the sheep to drown in 5 seconds from the weight of wet wool and the cold. Best dog ever, except putting the sheep in the lake in the first place. He nearly killed himself.

I presume you can get guard dogs that would stop other dogs coming on your land?

Birdnuts

kingofthe3rdyrs wrote: »

I presume you can get guard dogs that would stop other dogs coming on your land?

In countries like Turkey, Spain and Romania etc. breeds of dog like the Pyreenian mountain dog are reared as pups with lambs and when adult make excellent guard dogs to the extent that they are left out with flocks in remote mountain areas which also harbour the likes of wolves and bears. This practice is so succesfull that flock owners rarely if ever suffer losses from predation.

PS: I also know of a farmer in Mayo who runs 2 lamas with his flock and since he has got them he has never suffered losses from dog/fox attacks. Donkeys too are meant to be quiet good for this purpose:)

whelan1

13 dead sheep and 31 missing :eek:

Username John

whelan1 wrote: »

13 dead sheep and 31 missing :eek:

Jesus - that's desperate, and then there is the sheep that aren't physcially damaged - sure they could all have thrown their lambs now...

Did they get the dogs at least? (and were they able to trace em back to their owners)

whelan1

they got the 2 dogs , dont know who the owner is ?:eek: ****ers

BennyLava

whelan1 wrote: »

they got the 2 dogs , dont know who the owner is ?:eek: ****ers

Might be a long shot, but if the dogs look pedigree get them checked for chips, could find out who the owners are that way, possibly chase them for compo

johngalway

whelan1 wrote: »

13 dead sheep and 31 missing :eek:

:eek: That's some amount of destruction.

I'd sooner quietly ask around with descriptions of the dogs rather than let it out that sheep were killed. People clam up once money or law might be involved.

Indubitable

Birdnuts wrote: »

In countries like Turkey, Spain and Romania etc. breeds of dog like the Pyreenian mountain dog are reared as pups with lambs and when adult make excellent guard dogs to the extent that they are left out with flocks in remote mountain areas which also harbour the likes of wolves and bears. This practice is so succesfull that flock owners rarely if ever suffer losses from predation.

PS: I also know of a farmer in Mayo who runs 2 lamas with his flock and since he has got them he has never suffered losses from dog/fox attacks. Donkeys too are meant to be quiet good for this purpose:)

What do the dogs eat on the mountain? what makes them stay with the sheep?

whelan1

YE DOG WARDEN WAS TO COME TO THEM AFTER DINNER TO SEE IF THEY WHERE CHIPPED

Birdnuts

kingofthe3rdyrs wrote: »

What do the dogs eat on the mountain? what makes them stay with the sheep?

Because dogs are pack animals and are raised as pups with the sheep/lambs they consider them part of their pack and defend them from any potential threat. Large dogs like their wolf ancestors can go along time withour food so when the shepards check on the flocks every week or so they feed the dogs then with one big meal

johngalway

whelan1 wrote: »

YE DOG WARDEN WAS TO COME TO THEM AFTER DINNER TO SEE IF THEY WHERE CHIPPED

Let us know if anything comes of it would ya? Am interested in the result having had to deal with stray, dumped and simply "let loose" dogs before.

Indubitable

Birdnuts wrote: »

Because dogs are pack animals and are raised as pups with the sheep/lambs they consider them part of their pack and defend them from any potential threat. Large dogs like their wolf ancestors can go along time withour food so when the shepards check on the flocks every week or so they feed the dogs then with one big meal

Might get an Irish wolfhound then, big dog, might be able to take on two dogs without too much damage. When a bitch is in heat sheep would be unprotected because the f**ker would probably wander off

tabby aspreme

bring the dogs around local schools, kids will know who own them. a bitch in heat is a great way to get dogs onto land so they can be shot if you have suspicions about them;)

GREY TOM

But them in for the first few nights

Ticktactoe

Is it a fox that takes the head of a lamb and then comes back the next night for the body? There is a few headless lambs found every night or two out our way and are wondering what to do.....

betsie

Ticktactoe wrote: »

Is it a fox that takes the head of a lamb and then comes back the next night for the body? There is a few headless lambs found every night or two out our way and are wondering what to do.....

Could be a fox also possibility of smaller predator like a stoat or mink.

Cran

Ticktactoe wrote: »

Is it a fox that takes the head of a lamb and then comes back the next night for the body? There is a few headless lambs found every night or two out our way and are wondering what to do.....

Yes dog fox normally takes the head and leaves the body, vixen will take the entire lamb. I had awful trouble last year with the foxes, but this year quiet. Nothing in the trap yet and nothing while out with the lamp, the magpies thats a different story...

Birdnuts

Ticktactoe wrote: »

Is it a fox that takes the head of a lamb and then comes back the next night for the body? There is a few headless lambs found every night or two out our way and are wondering what to do.....

Contact your local GC or post a message in the hunting forum - plenty of lads there that would only be too willing to help out:)

PS: Very small lambs are are better off indoors initially anyways for a whole host of reasons from rogue foxes to exposure to bad weather.

Ticktactoe

Cran wrote: »

Yes dog fox normally takes the head and leaves the body, vixen will take the entire lamb. I had awful trouble last year with the foxes, but this year quiet. Nothing in the trap yet and nothing while out with the lamp, the magpies thats a different story...

Thanks for that Cran.
Ya i heard a similar story about the vixen - that they take the head and come back for the body the next night. Dont know very much about it so was wondering what people who have had similar experiences thought.
Some lambs have just the heads gone and then others have the bellies ripped out. Its becoming ridiculous at this stage.

johngalway

Ticktactoe wrote: »

Its becoming ridiculous at this stage.

Get yourself over to the Hunting forum. There are capable lads all across Ireland who'd only be delighted to sort out your fox problem

Neighbour of mine had a lamb killed night before last, took the front half of the lamb and left the back end.

We shot a dog fox early in the night, my shooting buddy saw the vixen later but I'd gone home for my beauty sleep :rolleyes: otherwise we'd have had her too.

Birdnuts

johngalway wrote: »

Get yourself over to the Hunting forum. There are capable lads all across Ireland who'd only be delighted to sort out your fox problem

Neighbour of mine had a lamb killed night before last, took the front half of the lamb and left the back end.

We shot a dog fox early in the night, my shooting buddy saw the vixen later but I'd gone home for my beauty sleep :rolleyes: otherwise we'd have had her too.

Yep - follow the pros

http://www.greypartridge.ie/test-01/mammalian-predators.349.html