New Street Fighter 4 Tier List

Azza

Event hubs have up a new tier list with quite a few new changes.

http://www.eventhubs.com/guides/2008/oct/17/street-fighter-4-tiers-character-rankings/

Seems closer to my own personal feelings than previous ones.

meducation

i wonder if sagat will still be top in ssf4

bush

Blanka cammy 6/5? Joke list confirmned.

Azza

List seems fairly accurate to me. Although Seth is hard to call.

I think to call it a joke based on one match up would be abit much.

Perhaps the Japs know something about that match up that we don't?

Any other matches you disagree with to go with that one?

Sagat06

@bush I know and anyone who plays Fei shows thats not 6/4

Plays fei properly I should say!

Icarian

Zangief v Akuma is 3:7 hmm... maybe at really high level, the old 4:6 seemed more accurate...

Zangief V Blanka is 4:6 now too... I don't think so, Blanka just shuts down way too many options

Azza

Yeah I agree with Icarian, sounds about right.

Sagat06

Icarian wrote: »

Zangief V Blanka is 4:6 now too... I don't think so, Blanka just shuts down way too many options

actually that matchup is getting much harder for blanka. its not just a case of throw a random ball anymore, I've had to work much harder lately in that matchup.

Azza

I think the Gief players will have something to say about that.

bush

Azza wrote: »

List seems fairly accurate to me. Although Seth is hard to call.

I think to call it a joke based on one match up would be abit much.

Perhaps the Japs know something about that match up that we don't?

Any other matches you disagree with to go with that one?

Ye heres a list of ones i think are worse than what they say :pac:

sagat 8/2
balrog 7/3
sim 6/4
fei long 6/4
cammy 7/3

Id say some people would say honda is 6/4 and mayne chun too.

Azza

I don't see the Rog:Rufus match up changed it was 5:5.

Rog's actually 4:6 down to Chun-Li now.

Doctor DooM

RopeDrink wrote: »

They've increased the Balrog:Guile matchup from 5:5 to 6:4 (Balrog Favour) - Can't see what has changed to alter that - I'm no expert but I do still consider them a pretty fairly squared matchup but thats just me.

Balrog:Rufus from 6:4 (Rog) to 5:5, not fought all that many Rufus players so I can't really say much (not that I had a lot of leeway to begin with).

Nice to see it being updated, however, and it does still seem relatively accurate overall.

Rog has an Ultra he can combo on command, can turn punch through SB and is one of the hardest characters to air throw in the game. I'd heartily agree with 6:4.

EDIT: I caught Dark Talant with my ultra in the air the other day. It traded with rogs jumping fierce...

D4RK ONION

Honda/Fei Long 6:4 I'm sorry, is there some secret non Honda murdering Fei Long in the game that I am unaware of?!

Doctor DooM

Gotta say despite recent discussions I still don't see Chun being a bad match for Guile. It's a 6:4... I really don't find it an uphill struggle at all, definitely not as bad for him as Rufus.

Nor Akuma, tbh. 7:3 now? I would consider Guile's disadvantage slight there too.

I wonder what I am missing.

EDIT: Perhaps as this is a Japanese tier list, a couple of opinions are different? Like the way no one used Boxer for ages there. *shrug*

Azza

Guile can't zone Akuma as Red Fireball beats Guiles Sonic Booms even the ex Boom. So in fireball fight he can't win and can't force Akuma to come to him.

So that means Guile has to go to him, and Akuma has exceptional zoning tools. Air and ground fireball and a 3 frame DP like Ryu.

Even if he gets in on Akuma, Guiles not got a great offense and Akuma has always his teleport to get out of trouble. Any time you attempt a cross up he is out with teleport. Meaties risk getting DP. There is no safe jump against him. His moves with invincable frames give him potential options to get him out of fireball traps.

Akuma's flip kick has variable distance on making it a good tool to get in on Guile, not fool proof but its an option.

When Akuma gets in. His options are almost endless and alot of them highly damaging.

Akuma has better footsies too.
Akumas a roundhouse that comes out in 7 frames sets up big combo's.

His Ultra is alot more useful than Guiles too. Whiff a flash kick and your toast when he has that.

As for Chun I think that was explained before. She's better when she gets in than Guile and and Guiles zoning game only partly compensates for that.

Doctor DooM

Azza wrote: »

Guile can't zone Akuma as Red Fireball beats Guiles Sonic Booms even the ex Boom. So in fireball fight he can't win and can't force Akuma to come to him.

So that means Guile has to go to him, and Akuma has exceptional zoning tools. Air and ground fireball and a 3 frame DP like Ryu.

Even if he gets in on Akuma, Guiles not got a great offense and Akuma has always his teleport to get out of trouble. Any time you attempt a cross up he is out with teleport. Meaties risk getting DP. There is no safe jump against him. His moves with invincable frames give him potential options to get him out of fireball traps.

Akuma's flip kick has variable distance on making it a good tool to get in on Guile, not fool proof but its an option.

When Akuma gets in. His options are almost endless and alot of them highly damaging.

Akuma has better footsies too.
Akumas a roundhouse that comes out in 7 frames sets up big combo's.

His Ultra is alot more useful than Guiles too. Whiff a flash kick and your toast when he has that.

As for Chun I think that was explained before. She's better when she gets in than Guile and and Guiles zoning game only partly compensates for that.

Fair enough, once again I will accept "I'm just better than people"

Ramza

Looks like a few of Ken's 5-5s got changed to 6-4s

Sisko

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Fair enough, once again I will accept "I'm just better than people"

Hehe, I must say in my year of playing this game, I've defiantly fought more really solid guile's then akumas.

I've fought far more akumas, mainly in the early months. But rarely have I played a real good akuma player, compared to the level of players I've faced using other characters.
Only once have I fought an akuma that was at level you'd see in these tourney vids. & it was amazing, spent over an hour playing the guy , hardly scratched him. Added him to friends list and he accepted, tried to get fights with him again this time with my cam set up but he was always playing other people.

But yeah a real good akuma is a hard find. I play a well dodgy akuma, when my execution is on point, which is rare these days, I could do ok with him but even then he was just above average. But guile was always easy for me as akuma, easier then when ryu even.

I play a slightly above averge guile too, and although my guile would beat more people then my akuma would online... I know my akuma would rape my guile... yeah..

But my experience means nothing in the end as this tier list is made by people at a level far beyond anything I've ever encountered never mind be able to play.

I only actually realised vega was still consided bottom (bar dan) of even all the console characters. :eek:

Jim

Akuma 6 : 4 Cammy

I was of the opinion that Cammy can shut down Akuma pretty effectively.

L31mr0d

Jim wrote: »

Akuma 6 : 4 Cammy

I was of the opinion that Cammy can shut down Akuma pretty effectively.

I think you have that the wrong way around, it's 6:4 in Cammys favour.

Jim

L31mr0d wrote: »

I think you have that the wrong way around, it's 6:4 in Cammys favour.

Ah, excellent, I'm not a moron, just illiterate!

Ken B

Sisko wrote: »

I only actually realised vega was still consided bottom (bar dan) of even all the console characters. :eek:

It's a bloody disgrace.....but you can really see the tier list kick in when you're fighting some characters...

DarkTalant

RopeDrink wrote: »

Come back to me when you can TP through L-Sonic Boom 10 times in a row without fail and I'll believe that. Even then, TurnAround Punch is NOT recommended for the Guile fight, anyway - Any projectile user can jab/hit you out of it after a projectile, Guile is no exception with his far standing fierce. If you suspect an EX Rush or TP / HB through Boom you'd also do well to Flash Kick that in the face. We can't even Ultra through it on most occasions, at least at anything farther than point blank as Guile's recovery is sick.

Guile also has a lopsided crouching hitbox that ruins Boxers typical BnB overhead Ultra setup (One you really need - Only a few Guiles actually play without relying 100% on Down-Back) so you can take your air-throw hitbox problem and smoke it

Boxer-guile being 6-4 sounds about right imo, HB is a very easy counter to SBs and with its range you should rarly have to worry about it. Full screen SBs are easy to avoid and if guile keeps backing off he'll end up in the corner, which isn't fun for him at all.
Boxers footsies are much better than guiles and Guile lacks decent anti-air against Boxer, EX flash kick is his only reliable one against Boxers jump fierce. He can attempt to air throw, but if you don't throw out fierce it will whiff and net you a free combo...
Boxers main weakness, wake up, is nigh on unexploitable for Guile because, as Azza has pointed out numerous times, his offense sucks.
The only time he can pose a problem is if he gets a life-lead and starts turtling, but boxer only really needs one gap in his defence to get back in and mess him up.

Boxer-Chun 4-6, I don't know TBH. Sure her super is really annoying, but to get it she has to play without meter which ain't fun. Her footsies are better than Boxers but she simply doesn't have the damage output to back them up.
On the other hand her offense is pretty strong against boxer and her LP fireball can be incriedably frustrating when combined with her normals. She also has a much easier time escaping the corner than Guile.

Boxer-Seth 6-4, ??? What? Sure one hit likely means the end for Seth but a good Seth won't get hit and Boxer has a really hard time with Seths mix-ups. Also Boxer can't avoid Seths ultra, which does crap damage but also gives Seth free mix-ups which will almost allways lead to more damage... I would have thought it was 6-4 in Seths favour at the very least.

Boxer-Honda 5-5, while Boxer certainly has a small advantage in this match-up I don't think it's enough to quite support 6-4 in his favour so yeah I suppose this is about right. TBH it could easily be put up to 6-4 and I wouldn't complain.

Boxer-Akuma 5-5, as I've said before I definatly think this one's 6-4 in Akumas favour at the very least. Boxers footsies are slightly better but Akuma can turtle reasonably effectivly and once he knocks you down you are going to take more and more damage from his stupid vortex.

Boxer-Ryu 5-5, I feel Ryu has a slight advantage in this match-up but it's definatly not 6-4 in his favour so yeah, that sounds about right.

Apart from that though it looks OK .

Sisko

Balrogs really give my ryu a hard time thats for sure. But that's probably more to do with my lack of knowledge on the match up.

Sisko

Yeah I'll deffo catch yea next time I see you on man. Your boxer is solid. Playing your rog versus others peoples is only different due to the keyboard play, you can notice the difference in play style.

Sisko

You misunderstand me rope, I don't view the keyboard as a massive disadvantage at all, for boxer, in fact I'd go so far as to say it can sometimes prove a lot better then a pad or a stick. Theres far less motion for some of the moves and you'd be far less likley miss time say a.. simple forward and punch input, since on a KB its literally just pressing the two KB buttons at the same time while holding down another. Less room for input errors or miss timings (of course other motions are a totally different story - rogs new ultra etc by annoying on a KB I'd say)


So by style of play I was referring to the way you move around and react to stuff compared to most other boxers I play of all different levels of skill.

Stop assuming people think your crap I'd say you'd probably rape my ryu if I tried to play you on stick instead of with my pad like before.

Placebo

not this branch out discussion again

DarkTalant

RopeDrink wrote: »

Boxer/Balrog is 6:4

:eek:

Placebo

RopeDrink wrote: »

Hey look, it's that bloke who can't compile more than one sentance in their mind per post.

In fairness rope, your posts seem to go into this depth of drivel - surrounding boxer. I find them fairly pointless and self centred.
You're probably the one of 3 boxers players, yet you mention boxer in every single one of your posts, not to mention a follow up video to elaborate your point.
I come on here for a laugh, buzz with my friends, arrange meet ups and read up on some tactics, my intentions are not to read a thesis or injure my finger from scrolling through your posts so much.

Please dont take this as a snipe, just a general comment. This could have been a nice discussion about Tiers but yet again the thread has strayed away to some sort of boxer specific.

Azza

Placebo just drop it. If you have a problem with Ropedrinks posts you don't need to read or comment on them just ignore them. It really does not take alot of effort to scroll down over someones post to the next.

Boxer is a character of SF IV so he is as relevant to talk about in regards tier list as any character.

No more comments on Ropedrinks posting style and Ropedrink don't bother replying to his last comment.



Lets get back on topic people.

bush

Icarian wrote: »

Zangief V Blanka is 4:6 now too... I don't think so, Blanka just shuts down way too many options

Missed this post somehow. I dunno how you could see it being any worse than 6/4. Zangief can punish balls with kara ex green hand and punish up balls ON HIT. If zangief gets a knockdown blanka is ****ed whereas blanka cant really do anything to hurt zangief. If he couldnt punish upball on hit id agree alright.

K.O.Kiki

Bush, how many players can even do kara-EX Green hand?
Last I remember even Dreddy said his execution was 20% or so, at best.

bush

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Bush, how many players can even do kara-EX Green hand?
Last I remember even Dreddy said his execution was 20% or so, at best.

Is it really hard, ye? Ive played a few zangiefs who can do it more or less everytime though

Azza

Bush wrote:

Missed this post somehow. I dunno how you could see it being any worse than 6/4. Zangief can punish balls with kara ex green hand and punish up balls ON HIT. If zangief gets a knockdown blanka is ****ed whereas blanka cant really do anything to hurt zangief. If he couldnt punish upball on hit id agree alright.

I don't really see how Blanka is ****ed against Gief if he is knockdown. Blanka has excellent options to beat Giefs guessing game on wake up, namely electricity and Ex.Upball because Giefs guessing game normally starts via a cross up.

Can Ex. Rainbow Ball not evade ground pressure on wake up.

Also no one can do anything to Gief on knock down so nothing specific to Blanka there.

Also Blanka has decent options for dealing with Gief larait which alot of other character don't have.

And do you seriously think Blanka is 8:2 against Sagat, I mean thats the same rating Gief has for Seth and even Dan is only rated 3:7 against Sagat.

Aside from that I think the main issue with this tier list is the console characters. Many people don't trust the Japanese tiers for them because its believed they don't play these characters at high levels.

If you remove the console characters the aracade tier list would look like this.

1st Sagat
2nd Akuma
3rd Ryu
4th Chun-Li & Rufus
6th Zangief
7th Balrog
8th Blanka
9th M.Bison & C.Viper
11th Abel
12th Dhalsim
13th E.Honda and Ken
15th El Feurte
16th Guile
17th Vega

Akuma moves from 3rd to second.
Balrog drops from joint 4th to 7th
Chun-Li moves from 7th to joint 4th.
Dhalsim jumps 2 arcade character (Honda and Ken)

I think its easy enough to rate the console characters against each other but hard to place them in the tier list.

Of the console characters I'd rate them in this order, with the best starting at the top.

Seth
Cammy
Gouken
Rose
Fei-Long
Sakura
Gen
Dan

I believe Seth and Cammy belong in upper mid tier, but not sure where exactly. Gouken and Rose lower mid tier and Sakura and Gen low tier but better than Vega.

I think Cammy is the only character significantly out of place.

I think Dan is clearly bottom tier below even Vega.

bush

Azza wrote: »

I don't really see how Blanka is ****ed against Gief if he is knockdown. Blanka has excellent options to beat Giefs guessing game on wake up, namely electricity and Ex.Upball because Giefs guessing game normally starts via a cross up.

Can Ex. Rainbow Ball not evade ground pressure on wake up.

Also no one can do anything to Gief on knock down so nothing specific to Blanka there.

Also Blanka has decent options for dealing with Gief larait which alot of other character don't have.

And do you seriously think Blanka is 8:2 against Sagat, I mean thats the same rating Gief has for Seth and even Dan is only rated 3:7 against Sagat.

Who in their right mind uses electricity as a wake up move? Ex upball can be punished on hit. You can rainbow roll away alright but its hard to get meter if hes on top of you all the time. That jump head butt thing beats ex rainbow roll too so you have to be careful getting out of the corner with it. Ive seen gief players say this is 5/5


The sagat match is a joke. He can kara uppercut balls on block and up balls on hit.

Sagat06

Bush80 wrote: »

He can kara uppercut balls on block and up balls on hit.

He can, that french lad aliouine?? was on SRK and said he can hit vert and hori balls on hit with kara uppercut.

bush

Sagat06 wrote: »

He can, that french lad aliouine?? was on SRK and said he can hit vert and hori balls on hit with kara uppercut.

Ive played him, it wasnt pretty, lol. He does stuff that even the japanese dont do. If i tried to ex rainbow out of the corner he would hit me with rh twice on the other side, ultra if he had it. I was trapped in the corner with tiger knees. Ive never felt so helpless before. Hes an absolute beast.

I dont think hes going to that tourney but it would interesting to see how he would get on against daigo.

Sagat06

And he's a pad player too!!

Azza wrote: »

Blanka has excellent options to beat Giefs guessing game on wake up, namely electricity and Ex.Upball because Giefs guessing game normally starts via a cross up.

echo what bush said there, if you elec on wakeup your eating a 360 and ex up ball is not safe on hit. If you cannot build up meter in this matchup you are truly f*cked!!

bush

Sagat06 wrote: »

And he's a pad player too!!



echo what bush said there, if you elec on wakeup your eating a 360 and ex up ball is not safe on hit. If you cannot build up meter in this matchup you are truly f*cked!!

Ye the gief should be close enough to blanka so he cant elec to build meter cos he can ex green hand it.

Azza

Bush wrote:

Who in their right mind uses electricity as a wake up move? Ex upball can be punished on hit. You can rainbow roll away alright but its hard to get meter if hes on top of you all the time. That jump head butt thing beats ex rainbow roll too so you have to be careful getting out of the corner with it. Ive seen gief players say this is 5/5

True no one in there right mind would use electricity as a wake up if being pressured with meaty pokes or tick into SPD.

But thats not what I mean't.

Gief gets his guessing game going by crossing you up on wake up with body splash or his jump knee attack, these can be beat with electricity, it beats most of Gief jump ins or trades preventing Gief from getting his 50/50 game going. Upball knocks down if it hits the cross up in's in the air.

At least ex.Rainbow ball gives you a chance of getting out of the corner when your pinned. And from reading the forums Blanka can outfootsie Gief with his normals.

bush

Im not saying its easy for zangief or anything but its not worse than 6/4

Robbknoll

Bush80 wrote: »

Im not saying its easy for zangief or anything but its not worse than 6/4

Id tend to agree with Bush on this one. Coming from a blanka player this match was won by more blankas at the start than not, but in my opinion the gap has been closed alot. 5/5 would seem fair to me. As a blanka its hard not to B.Roll when a chance arises but the lariat can be too quick and pressure follows, hence swinging alot of rounds. Well this is my 2cents at my lvl and the lvl i play against

PS. i tend to get in blankas ultra more often in this match up as giefs can get a bit excited when your down. Just another option to add to blankas wake up along with Azza's.

Dreddybajs

Kara green hand isn't that hard if you walk forward too, alioune is an absolute ****ing beast and was at Cannes, I don't think the matchup is worse than 6-4 blanka

edit: no way is it 5-5 imo though