DVB-T2 HD confirmed reception in Ireland from Winter Hill

mrdtv2010

Per Jordy the well known RF expert in South Down and installer. Appropriately enough during the rugby when Ireland got the right result. I also watched it via T2 and Sky: identical picture quality. T2 probably available in Louth too ex Winter Hill. See ukfree.tv, go to Winter Hill transmitter.

industrycynic - DVB-T2 is operational... Got a proper look at it today and have watched the Rugby (BBC HD) with no problems... No proper measurements yet, when Promax issue the dvb-t2 upgrade for the Explorer2 we'll do some testing... There's RTE DTT get's into the side lobe of a WH bearing...

Posted by Jordy (1,607 posts) on Saturday 27 February 2010 6:23PM, 65 minutes ago.

STB

I watched it on Irish DTT in MPEg4 via RTE2 with Irish commentary. I did flick over to the BBC HD channel on the same combo box to view the commentary and reaction etc.

I didnt need a DVB-T2 receiver. Had the same quality and thankfully the match produced the same result.:)

pa990

i'm in cork.. And i'm getting jealous of everyone getting uk freeview and t2 hd freeview

Could never recieve any uk channels where i am.. And never will

Zonda999

pa990 wrote: »

i'm in cork.. And i'm getting jealous of everyone getting uk freeview and t2 hd freeview

Could never recieve any uk channels where i am.. And never will

Well were meant to be gettin bbc on terrestrial for free when dtt goes live here, until then why not just throw up a dish?

Bob_Harris

pa990 wrote: »

i'm in cork.. And i'm getting jealous of everyone getting uk freeview and t2 hd freeview

Could never recieve any uk channels where i am.. And never will

Do you live somewhere that forbids putting up a dish?

pa990

have a dish.. Have freesat.
But there are channels on freeview that aren't on freesat.. Thats all

Just a friendly moderator warning.
If I see even a hint of any further antagonism or needling of users regarding T2,I will be handinng out infractions.
If it continues after that,I will ban users.

Everyone is here to be polite and that is whats expected.
There will be no further warnings,just action taken.
Thank you.

STB

Deleted User wrote: »

Just a friendly moderator warning.
If I see even a hint of any further antagonism or needling of users regarding T2,I will be handinng out infractions.
If it continues after that,I will ban users.

Everyone is here to be polite and that is whats expected.
There will be no further warnings,just action taken.
Thank you.

Perhaps it is time for an overspill section or a section dealing with non Irish Terrestrial TV ? That way DVB-T2 will not be dropped into every discussion. It must be confusing for those who dont understand its irrelevance.

No need for that ,never has been.
Just be civil and ignore the bits you don't want to interact with.
thats where we are leaving it folks -back on topic.

STB

Never has been .......

9 years ago we had MPEG2 on Freeview (albeit in overspill areas).

---

9 years on, in ROI we have MPEG4 on DVB-T.

In the Uk we have Freeview SD (MPEG2 on DVB-T) and Freeview HD (MPGEG4 on DVB-T2). Again available in overspill areas ONLY.

Given the high level of confusion caused lately, it was a suggestion to stem that very confusion and stop people buying irrelevant and sometimes useless products.

Perhaps we could contain DVBT2 discussions and not have them dropped in to every thread. Then contributors civility wont be unncessarily questioned.

Thats all I have to say on the matter.

@ stb

As you know I've replied to your pm with my suggestions.
Let that be the end of the matter now thanks and we can go back on topic.

mrdtv2010

pa990 wrote: »

i'm in cork.. And i'm getting jealous of everyone getting uk freeview and t2 hd freeview

Could never recieve any uk channels where i am.. And never will

Freesat is the perfect (well not quite perfect as 4HD, FiveHD may not be available till 2013.) solution outside the traditional overspill areas. If you are at the edge of overspill or beyond Freesat is the free solution for most UK FTA services. The T2 overspill was entirely expected since in those locations they were already getting the high power MPEG2 T1 signals from Winter Hill. The signal was there but until 13 February 2009 there were no receivers.

syboit

STB wrote: »

Had the same quality and thankfully the match produced the same result.:)

Really ? I was switching back and forth between dtt-rte2 and bbchd, and i though the bbcHD pic was better. might need to check my setup.

galtee boy

mrdtv2010 wrote: »

Freesat is the perfect (well not quite perfect as 4HD, FiveHD may not be available till 2013.) solution outside the traditional overspill areas. If you are at the edge of overspill or beyond Freesat is the free solution for most UK FTA services. The T2 overspill was entirely expected since in those locations they were already getting the high power MPEG2 T1 signals from Winter Hill. The signal was there but until 13 February 2009 there were no receivers.

I agree totally. I remember jumping around the kitchen at home in the early 1980's after having seen Michael Fish giving the weather forecast on a snowy BBC1 Wales for the first time, that we were receiving on a home made aerial, from a local deflector that had just started beaming the Welsh signals from the Galtee mountains. We then paid about 80 punts for the installation of a colour king aerial and masthead amp and I have to say, that while the pictures were often good and sometimes downright bad, they were never "perfect", but we were happy with our lot. Now, we crystal clear digital reception of the five UK terrestrial channels ( the Holy Grail remember at one stage ), plus hundreds of other channels without subscription, plus free HD, all for a once off cost, far less than the 80 punts comparatively speaking I paid in the 1980's, and we're still not happy !

mrdtv2010

galtee boy wrote: »

I agree totally. I remember jumping around the kitchen at home in the early 1980's after having seen Michael Fish giving the weather forecast on a snowy BBC1 Wales for the first time, that we were receiving on a home made aerial, from a local deflector that had just started beaming the Welsh signals from the Galtee mountains. We then paid about 80 punts for the installation of a colour king aerial and masthead amp and I have to say, that while the pictures were often good and sometimes downright bad, they were never "perfect", but we were happy with our lot. Now, we crystal clear digital reception of the five UK terrestrial channels ( the Holy Grail remember at one stage ), plus hundreds of other channels without subscription, plus free HD, all for a once off cost, far less than the 80 punts comparatively speaking I paid in the 1980's, and we're still not happy !

The basic problem is that RTE could not manage their way out of a paper bag: they agreed to go on Sky encrypted as part of a subscription tier. In other countries such as the US the satellite operators DirecTV and Echostar PAY the broadcast networks (CBS, ABC, NBC) etc to CARRY their services. In the UK the BBC broke the subscription link with Sky, followed by ITV, Four and Five. In Germany and Italy PSB channels are all free-to-air via satellite. In France they have TNTSat which is a FTV satellite extension of TNT: mandated by regulation.

RTE management, then and now, are structurally and clinically incompetent. They should have demanded that Sky pay all costs and offer an Irish Freesat service as part of the carriage deal. I am surprised this has never been considered by BAI, the Government, RTE et al as Sky need to offer the 'Full Monty' offer in their pay proposition. The endless twelve year long timewasting over Irish DTT vis a vis structures/standards/services has suited Sky perfectly: interference to UK DTT from Mount Leinster, disruption of SCTV deflector services, different business models, the impact of UK DSO, the recession, no launch of Irish DTT services. The result is that the addressable household market for Irish DTT is probably less than 300,000 households: commercially not viable for a pay-tv operation and not really of interest to international STB vendors if any bespoke software requirements have to be met. Outside cabled areas Sky is the one stop solution for complete digital television in Ireland. This is no accident: they are the best managers in the business, they have thought through the competitive scenarios, hoodwinked RTE, and capitalised on commercial chaos and regulatory reticence.

slegs

mrdtv2010 wrote: »

The basic problem is that RTE could not manage their way out of a paper bag: they agreed to go on Sky encrypted as part of a subscription tier. In other countries such as the US the satellite operators DirecTV and Echostar PAY the broadcast networks (CBS, ABC, NBC) etc to CARRY their services. In the UK the BBC broke the subscription link with Sky, followed by ITV, Four and Five. In Germany and Italy PSB channels are all free-to-air via satellite. In France they have TNTSat which is a FTV satellite extension of TNT: mandated by regulation.

RTE management, then and now, are structurally and clinically incompetent. They should have demanded that Sky pay all costs and offer an Irish Freesat service as part of the carriage deal. I am surprised this has never been considered by BAI, the Government, RTE et al as Sky need to offer the 'Full Monty' offer in their pay proposition. The endless twelve year long timewasting over Irish DTT vis a vis structures/standards/services has suited Sky perfectly: interference to UK DTT from Mount Leinster, disruption of SCTV deflector services, different business models, the impact of UK DSO, the recession, no launch of Irish DTT services. The result is that the addressable household market for Irish DTT is probably less than 300,000 households: commercially not viable for a pay-tv operation and not really of interest to international STB vendors if any bespoke software requirements have to be met. Outside cabled areas Sky is the one stop solution for complete digital television in Ireland. This is no accident: they are the best managers in the business, they have thought through the competitive scenarios, hoodwinked RTE, and capitalised on commercial chaos and regulatory reticence.

Its quite simple. BBC/ITV pay their own substantial transmission costs to be FTA. RTE pay nothing to be on Sky. I have heard reliably that if RTE were to pay their own transmisison costs on satellite that it could be up to 1meur per annum. Sky offered them a way out - no costs and a free full service on satellite. The thinking is that if RTE had demanded an FTV solution Sky would not have covered these costs and would have asked for more costs of their own. So both RTE and Sky win big with the only loser being the viewer. I agree with you though about RTE's mismanagement of this. They were very shortsighted and have undervalued what RTE on Sky's package means to Sky. I think they could have got Sky to pay them for the deal they got and that could have funded DTT to the point where we would actually have a live service long ago.

I also think it would have been in the public interest to invest in an alternative FTV transmission model at the time with Sky or someone else. Where were the BCI/DCMNR/RTE/RTENL when this was decided? Where was the plan for satellite? There was none. Through incompetence the people who were responsible for this area saw satellite tv = Sky. Sky wouldnt have let RTE go somewhere else if RTE had investigated alternatives as Sky needed RTE more that RTE needed Sky at the time. I imagine there was no investigation to these alternatives and no negotiation actually took place in this deal.

That horse has bolted now and with Sky having over 650000 subscriptions with RTE at the core of the package it makes it difficult if not impossible to unravel the deal.

With Real Digital looking at this market there may be changes finally coming that shake up this cosy arrangement for Sky but that all remains to be seen.

fat-tony

syboit wrote: »

Really ? I was switching back and forth between dtt-rte2 and bbchd, and i though the bbcHD pic was better. might need to check my setup.

+1

BBCHD picture was 1440x1080i
RTE2 pic is 720x576 - so 25% (approx) of picture information contained in the BBC's HD signal.

On a proper HD setup, the difference between an SD and HD signal should be obvious (no matter how high quality the SD signal);)

givecredit

fat-tony wrote: »

+1

BBCHD picture was 1440x1080i
RTE2 pic is 720x576 - so 25% (approx) of picture information contained in the BBC's HD signal.

On a proper HD setup, the difference between an SD and HD signal should be obvious (no matter how high quality the SD signal);)

In fairness to STB, i think he meant that he could watch BBCHD on his combo box (MPEG4 DTT and HD Dsat). He was saying that the combo box gave him the same quality BBCHD as a DTT T2 box. I do not believe he was saying that the RTE2 DTT was the same quality as BBCHD. He can correct me if im wrong..

fat-tony

No - I think he was having a go at DVB-T2;) In his rush to print, he came across as saying that the RTE2 pic was as good as BBCHD

Bob_Harris

STB wrote: »

I didn't need a DVB-T2 receiver. Had the same quality and thankfully the match produced the same result.:)

I think it's pretty clear what he was saying. BBCHD over satellite had the same quality as BBCHD over terrestrial.

STB

fat-tony wrote: »

No - I think he was having a go at DVB-T2;) In his rush to print, he came across as saying that the RTE2 pic was as good as BBCHD

Well Tony, second guessing and all that aside, my point was nobody needs a dvb-t2 receiver as the combo HD box quite clearly displays HD content from Sat. I have quite a variety of HD boxes, none of them dvb-t2 (as they dont exist). It was a Ctech 5000C for info. Thats all. I dont think anyone would try and compare SD and HD via MPEg4 regardless of the platform. Sure that wouldnt fly with you pro's!

And for what its worth I have never had a hidden agenda here, just trying to be helpful and point people in the right direction in most instances.

TBH I am tired of the politics so I'll stay out of it all from now on. Happy viewing!

mrdtv2010

Bob_Harris wrote: »

I think it's pretty clear what he was saying. BBCHD over satellite had the same quality as BBCHD over terrestrial.

BBCHD via Sky/Freesat and via DVB-T2 generally have identical bit rate. Last autumn they changed out to more advanced MPEG4 encoders and altered the Freesat/Sky bit rate to about 10.0 Mbit/sec. The picture quality via Sky HD and a Humax Fox T2 box looks identical on my system at one of my locations. There is one difference: via satellite BBC HD is fixed rate whereas via T2 it is statmuxed in a 40.1 Mb/s mux. Currently ITV1HD is also broadcast 24x7 and 4HD is due to launch very shortly.

syboit

STB wrote: »

Well Tony, second guessing and all that aside, my point was nobody needs a dvb-t2 receiver as the combo HD box quite clearly displays HD content from Sat. I have quite a variety of HD boxes, none of them dvb-t2 (as they dont exist). It was a Ctech 5000C for info. Thats all. I dont think anyone would try and compare SD and HD via MPEg4 regardless of the platform. Sure that wouldnt fly with you pro's!

And for what its worth I have never had a hidden agenda here, just trying to be helpful and point people in the right direction in most instances.

TBH I am tired of the politics so I'll stay out of it all from now on. Happy viewing!

thanks for the claification...