Dealer accidentally mucks 1 card

twitch1984

Saw this in a tourney, player a declares all in, player b calls. While pulling the chips into the middle the dealer mistakingly pulls 1 of player b cards into the muck ( hand had a protector on it but card slipped out under it) player b tells dealer and is able to identify his card as it is just in the muck. Player a calls for a rule and td asks player b what his hand was, player b states mucked card was king of spades. td loks at card which is king of spades so calls player b hand live. player a shows a,q none of them hit and player b wins knocking player a out on the bubble.
Imo player b only had 1 live card as his second was in the muck, any opinions or offical td rulings

kakak1

twitch1984 wrote: »

Saw this in a tourney, player a declares all in, player b calls. While pulling the chips into the middle the dealer mistakingly pulls 1 of player b cards into the muck ( hand had a protector on it but card slipped out under it) player b tells dealer and is able to identify his card as it is just in the muck. Player a calls for a rule and td asks player b what his hand was, player b states mucked card was king of spades. td loks at card which is king of spades so calls player b hand live. player a shows a,q none of them hit and player b wins knocking player a out on the bubble.
Imo player b only had 1 live card as his second was in the muck, any opinions or offical td rulings

I don't care what the rule is I never want to win a hand, tournament or cash, on a technicality due to a dealers error.

I'm finding more & more players are trying to win on technicalities like this & personally I think its horrible.

Once I'm satisfied no collusion / cheating has happened I'm more than happy to concede the pot.

pkr_ennis

Good ruling from the TD here. The muck doesn't magically kill your hand, having your card buried in the muck and irretrievable from it, kills your hand.

Everything turned out fine in this instance, but what would you do if the single card is buried in the muck there?

My instinct is telling me his hand is dead here. Any-one?

keane2097

pkr_ennis wrote: »

Good ruling from the TD here. The muck doesn't magically kill your hand, having your card buried in the muck and irretrievable from it, kills your hand.

Everything turned out fine in this instance, but what would you do if the single card is buried in the muck there?

My instinct is telling me his hand is dead here. Any-one?

I think you would probably just have one card but not a dead hand?

twitch1984

keane2097 wrote: »

I think you would probably just have one card but not a dead hand?

i agree but does it state in some rules that you have to be in possesion of 2 hole cards for the hand to be live.

maybe im wrong?

jem

if the player can state eactly what card he had I would rule it live and give it back to him.
angle shoot by player a IMHO.

DonkeyPokerTour

pkr_ennis wrote: »

Good ruling from the TD here. The muck doesn't magically kill your hand, having your card buried in the muck and irretrievable from it, kills your hand.

Everything turned out fine in this instance, but what would you do if the single card is buried in the muck there?

My instinct is telling me his hand is dead here. Any-one?

The problem with it being buried in the much comes from a possibly of player b trying to angle shoot. Say the player has AhKd, and when the player on his left mucked his cards he catches a glimpse of the Ac. Then when his card is pulled into the much he says "My card was the Ac", the player to his left had A3o and wasn't paying much attention to the suits when he folded. So hence player B "upgrades" his hand from AKo to AA. I know this is unlikely but it could hugely alter the result of the hand if, for instance he was up against AKo, he's gone from about 3% to win the hand, to 90% to win the hand.

I absolutely hate ruling hands dead unless there is no other option, I'd be inclined to let Player B, keep 1 card and rule it a Live Hand.

pkr_ennis

From Roberts Rules of Poker-
DEAD HANDS

1. Your hand is declared dead if:
(a) You fold or announce that you are folding when facing a bet or a raise.

(b) You throw your hand away in a forward motion causing another player to act behind you (even if not facing a bet).

(c) In stud, when facing a bet, you pick your upcards off the table, turn your upcards facedown, or mix your upcards and downcards together.

(d) The hand does not contain the proper number of cards for that particular game (except at stud a hand missing the final card may be ruled live, and at lowball and draw high a hand with too few cards before the draw is live). [See Section 16 - “Explanations,” discussion #4, for more information on the stud portion of this rule.]
(e) You act on a hand with a joker as a holecard in a game not using a joker. (A player who acts on a hand without looking at a card assumes the liability of finding an improper card, as given in Irregularities, rule #8.)
(f) You have the clock on you when facing a bet or raise and exceed the specified time limit.
2. Cards thrown into the muck may be ruled dead. However, a hand that is clearly identifiable may be retrieved at management’s discretion if doing so is in the best interest of the game. We will make an extra effort to rule a hand retrievable if it was folded as a result of false information given to the player.
3. Cards thrown into another player’s hand are dead, whether they are faceup or facedown.

Rule 1d is fairly conclusive here.
GL,
C