Gerry Barret named as one of the top 10 developers to be transferred to NAMA

_Whimsical_

I hadn't realised Gerry was such a big fish.

The top 10 developers have almost 17 billion euro worth of debt between them.

http://www.businessandleadership.com/news/article/20112/leadership/top-10-nama-names

?Cee?view

How is he being bailed out by NAMA?

teepee

Any devlopment loans over 5 million go straight into nama , the devloper has no say in the matter , if he or she is still paying interest on the loan the will be paying it to nama not the banks . nama is just another name for a goverment bank of a difference . Oh I can hear i now "bad nama bad nama" .:(

?Cee?view

teepee wrote: »

Any devlopment loans over 5 million go straight into nama , the devloper has no say in the matter , if he or she is still paying interest on the loan the will be paying it to nama not the banks . nama is just another name for a goverment bank of a difference . Oh I can hear i now "bad nama bad nama" .:(

Exactly, that's my point. This notion that NAMA is "bailing out" developers is absolute rubbish. NAMA has incredible powers over loans which are transferred to it; far more powers than a normal lender would have over properties on which they've secured loans.

skelliser

whos gonna pay for NAMA tho? we are

?Cee?view

Dead right, we....as in the Exchequer are paying.

However, it's highly likely that if it's run properly (enormous if!), that it will make money in the long run.

But really, there's no way that you can argue that it's bailing out the developers. Undoubtedly it's bailing out the banks, but definitely not the developers.

skelliser

if???? lol!
that property in athlone, worth 31million, not a chance, 600,000grand is all!
we will foot the bill in the end, mark my words, it should be renamed SCAMA.
http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2010/02/24/its-time-to-shout-stop-nama-is-grand-larceny Says it all really!

?Cee?view

You're right...I said it was an ENORMOUS if

But even McWilliams' brand of sensationalism doesn't claim that it's a bailout of the developers. He's clearly seeing that the banks are being let off scot free in a disgraceful way.

Look at it this way.

Say a developer spends 10 million on a site, on which a lender has lent 9 million. NAMA buys that 9 million loan, (not the site), for 5 million, and potentially the site is worth only 1 million.

So, NAMA has given the lender 5 million for something that's worth only 1 million, but here's the rub, the developer still owes NAMA 9 million.

Have a read of the NAMA legislation rather that McWilliams. It's mind numbing stuff, but enlightening.

McWilliams et al are in the business of selling stories, much like lenders were (not are) in the business of selling debt.

evoke

What does it mean when loads are being transferred to nama?

Like when i hear that gerry barrett is being transferred to nama i think that he is in trouble and he can not repay his loans. Is that what is happening?

Or is the bank have big loads out to gerry and they want to cash them in now but gerry does not have the money to pay the whole sum. Instead the bank transfers his loans to nama and nama give the bank the money. then nama get the money and the interest back from gerry?

Which one is correct?

skelliser

Gerry doesnt come into it. Some developers can and some cant pay. It doesnt matter cause nama takes them all.
Foreign banks wont touch our banks, who they borrow off, unless they get rid of these loans. The plan being nama will take these loans and foreign banks will start lending to our banks and ultimatly us. Thats the plan.
The only problem is how much are these loans worth.

PeakOutput

evoke wrote: »

Like when i hear that gerry barrett is being transferred to nama i think that he is in trouble and he can not repay his loans. Is that what is happening?

no

the bank transfers his loans to nama and nama give the bank the money. then nama get the money and the interest back from gerry?

correct

teepee

ANY LOANS OVER 5 MILLION WILL GO INTO NAMA REGARDLESS OF WHO OR WHAT THEY ARE , simple .:eek::eek::eek:

evoke

that is not bad for gerry at all then. Everyone was telling me during the week gerry was in trouble because he was being namad.

it is not bad for him at all.

skelliser

its bad for us tho, i couldnt give a toss about Gerry

ErnieBert

NAMA

Not A Millionaire Anymore

unJustMary

skelliser wrote: »

its bad for us tho, i couldnt give a toss about Gerry

And the alternative which would have been better for us is?

skelliser

there is/was many, nationalisation, fine gaels bad bank, mcwilliams plan, even dermot desmond of all people had a good suggestion.
But NAMA was "the only game in town" according to frank fahy, a man who knows a little about property!

trish23

But NAMA was "the only game in town" according to frank fahy, a man who knows a little about property![/QUOTE]

'A little' or 'little'?

skelliser

He caused controversy in Galway after speaking at a seminar organised by 'Remax Auctioneers' held at the radison Hotel in January 2009. He spoke at the conference urging first time buyers to "buy now as houses prices were as low as they would go". House prices in Galway have seen a 20%-30% drop in the previous 18 months with little sign of the market stabilising. A number of people have questioned his judgement in the matter, as the seminar was organised by Remax Auctioneers and speakers were drawn from what could be seen as the "vested interests" in the property market in Galway. As of 2009, there were many people with negative equity on their properties, who had bought within the previous five years. A number of people have questioned the wisdom of the Fianna fail TD speaking at the seminar encouraging young people to buy now, despite many economists predicting further price drops in the housing market up to 2011 and 2012 and further exposing people to the danger of negative equity on their properties. Also speaking at the seminar was Bank of Ireland manager Pat Fleming, solicitors from Bell and Carroll and mortgage providers 'Simply mortgages

WIKIPEDIA

kraggy

skelliser wrote: »

its bad for us tho, i couldnt give a toss about Gerry

How so?

Nama buys a 10m loan off the bank for 6m. Nama (which has more legal power than the banks and highly specialised personnel when chasing the money) pursues the loanee for the money and makes profit of 4m.

A lot of people are too quick to shout down any idea of the government because it's the public bandwagon of sentiment at the moment.

Yes Fianna Fail have fúcked up, royally, over the last 15 years.

But I think Nama will work.

And if it does, we the taxpayer will have made a tidy profit from it.

skelliser

because the loan isnt worth 6 million! most are worthless, that athlone site being a worringly good example. from 31 million to 600k.

biko

Title change to "transferred".

I'd prefer not to have NAMA but it is a solution to our problems.

You never know - we might end up with a halting site in the docks after all.

trish23

'Little' then. The way I see it NAMA will make no difference to developers, some difference to banks as they will be enabled to get credit, & the taxpayer (me & you) will end up paying for it.

skelliser

no no, i meant little in a cute whore kinda way, fahey is well in with the developers, the above was him trying to screw over potential buyers.

trish23

trish23 wrote: »

'Little' then. The way I see it NAMA will make no difference to developers, some difference to banks as they will be enabled to get credit, & the taxpayer (me & you) will end up paying for it.

This isn't America - we don't have American bankruptcy laws and the developers aren't Donald Trump. The banks are bankrupt. One way or another we were going to pay for this either through higher taxes, rents, interest rates or emigration.

The Germans aren't going to bail us out.

Also - I can't remember which election it was but there were 17 names on the ballot - I gave preferences to 14 of those - SF and Frank Fahey didn't make the cut.

I gave a preference to the various nutcases of Galway West before Frank Fahey and Sinn Fein.

In case anyone isn't clear - I don't like Frank Fahey.

randylonghorn

kraggy wrote: »

How so?

Nama buys a 10m loan off the bank for 6m. Nama (which has more legal power than the banks and highly specialised personnel when chasing the money) pursues the loanee for the money and makes profit of 4m.

Or ...

Nama buys a 10m loan off the bank for 6m. Nama (which has more legal power than the banks and highly specialised personnel when chasing the money) pursues the loanee for the money, the loanee declares bankruptcy and defaults on the loan, NAMA is left with a mess of property which is worth much less than they paid for it.

I agree with pg633 that the ordinary taxpayer was going to end up paying the piper anyway, but I'm inclined to think that this way we will pay more and the banks will get off even easier.

I hope I turn out to be wrong ...

galwayrush

NAMA is also meant to prop up the market price of properties artificially, rather than let them collapse totally if there was a flood of liquidated stock suddenly appearing on the market.
I still think it stinks though.

winnies_world

He mustn't be too bothered by NAMA:

Pieces fall into place for €800m plan
February 26, 2010 - 10:01am
City Tribune Exclusive

Plans for the €800m regeneration of Ceannt Station in Eyre Square are progressing behind the scenes – with property developer Gerry Barrett starting to move parts of the ‘jigsaw puzzle’ into place, the Galway City Tribune understands.

It is believed that while an overall planning application for the 15 acre site is still a minimum of six months away, other key elements in Mr Barrett’s vast property portfolio are being prepared to ‘make way’ for what will be one of the country’s biggest ever construction projects.

In the first major step forward, Mr Barrett is seeking planning permission to demolish the 1970s extension to the side and rear of the Meyrick Hotel in Eyre Square – the roadway to the side of the hotel is expected to form one of the two main access points to the redeveloped ‘New Galway’.

The other access point is expected to be from the former ‘Topaz’ site at the Docks, which the developer also owns, and successfully had oil tanks removed from at the eleventh hour for the Volvo Ocean Race stopover last Summer.

This also opens up the development to the proposed new Galway Port.

Already, CIE have moved the Bus Eireann maintenance facility from behind the Meyrick to a new site at the Harbour Enterprise Park.

In 2004, Mr Barrett began ‘cherry picking’ properties around the city through his Edward Holdings and Radical Properties companies to position himself as owner of strategically- placed sites around the CIE lands.

Last December, our sister newspaper the Sentinel revealed he had been chosen by CIE as the preferred bidder for the 15 acres at Ceannt Station. That agreement is understood to still be in a lengthy legal process, and he is expected to be officially appointed later this year, with a full planning application subsequently being lodged directly with An Bórd Pleanála under Strategic Infrastructure legislation.

The matter must then be brought before the City Council for its submissions – and potentially an oral hearing – before the final go-ahead can be given.

The first phase of the Ceannt redevelopment – which stretches from Eyre Square to Lough Atalia Road – is the ‘front-loading’ of a new bus and train station with new platforms and waiting facilities, a bar and restaurants. The other elements have not yet been finalised, but are understood to include around 600,000 square feet of retail space, more than 200 residential units, office space, cafés, restaurants, cultural space and civic squares.

The entire project is expected to be completed in four or five phases and would take around 10 years to finish.

Continued on page 3

Link: http://www.galwaynews.ie/11504-pieces-fall-place-%E2%82%AC800m-plan

PopeBuckfastXVI

galwayrush wrote: »

NAMA is also meant to prop up the market price of properties artificially, rather than let them collapse totally if there was a flood of liquidated stock suddenly appearing on the market.
I still think it stinks though.

Indeed.

Propping up bubble prices is the way out of the recession!!

Now, I'm off to check me tulip bulb portfolio...

Xiney

For all this recession has well and truly screwed me personally, at least it happened: I'll never take a stable economy for granted again. I will live frugally for the rest of my life. I will make sure I'm saving, and I will never get into debt (apart from probably a mortgage at some point - but a manageable one)


It's been a hard lesson (and I'm kind of ready to graduate now, kthx) but it's been probably the most important thing I've ever learned.

Robbo

PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »

Indeed.

Propping up bubble prices is the way out of the recession!!

Now, I'm off to check me tulip bulb portfolio...

You fool, you should have all your money in Beanie Babies.

JohnCleary

Robbo wrote: »

You fool, you should have all your money in Beanie Babies.

Monorail FTW

unJustMary

Xiney wrote: »

It's been a hard lesson (and I'm kind of ready to graduate now, kthx).

+100 to that.

fyi, there's one thing that the recession hasn't taught us about: raging inflation. So yes, save. But make sure that your savings are done in something that keeps up with the inflation rate (unless it's trivial).

I came out of university in the early 1990s, in a place that went thru a smaller recession at the time. I was lucky, and got a good job. But some friends didn't - after a year or more unemployed they ended up in call-centres and other ****ty jobs instead of the graduate type jobs they'd hoped for. Some are only just managing to crawl up the employment food-chain in the last 5-ish years, some never did.

So - something for all of us to watch: grab whatever job you can while the country gets out of the mess, but don't stay in it any longer than you have to (unless you really want a career in retail or fast-food).

Webbs

Xiney wrote: »

For all this recession has well and truly screwed me personally, at least it happened: I'll never take a stable economy for granted again. I will live frugally for the rest of my life. I will make sure I'm saving, and I will never get into debt (apart from probably a mortgage at some point - but a manageable one)


It's been a hard lesson (and I'm kind of ready to graduate now, kthx) but it's been probably the most important thing I've ever learned.

I genuinely hope you can live in a debt free (relatively) manner, unfortunately like unjustMary I have been through other recessions and one thing I learnt is that people just don't learn.

Though the depth of this recession is far worse and will take a lot longer to recover from so I think there will be lots of people like yourself who will save.

I did hear and interesting comment this week in that the Irish people have never really known a recession (different from having a weak economy al la 1980s etc) so the attitude here is different say to UK, US, Germany where people have a more 'been there, done that' attitude and have a slightly more upbeat viewpoint on the situation.

Amhran Nua

churchview wrote: »

However, it's highly likely that if it's run properly (enormous if!), that it will make money in the long run.

Its not really, but thats not the point. Even on top of NAMA we'll probably end up paying more into the banks, because the point and purpose of NAMA is to single handedly recapitalise the banks and ergo start lending again -> property boom part II, Bertie's revenge.

Whether or not you think this is a good thing, its not going to happen. The IMF has said that NAMA won't get lending moving again. Various and assorted economists have said that NAMA won't get lending moving again, including a nobel prize winning one who went as far as describing it as "criminal", indicating he felt that its proponents should be locked away for the good of society, those Scandinavians who originally had the bad bank idea NAMA is meant to be modelled on (and its not, much to their outrage) have said that NAMA won't get lending moving again, even the banks themselves admit that NAMA won't get lending moving again.

Fianna Fáil and the lads would have it that NAMA is a big wheeze to get free money out of Europe. The reality is very far from this perspective, leaving the Irish taxpayer overpaying by billions for increasingly worthless assets while the private companies (banks) sit there and get their coffers refilled - after a veritable orgy of profligate and extremely foolish spending - by the hard work of aforementioned hapless taxpayer, with the nation held to ransom over the savings of citizens entrusted to these banks.

You really couldn't make this stuff up if you tried.

koura

The ring road around Galway is another of Fahey's & Friends interests.
Development Land!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

galwayrush

koura wrote: »

The ring road around Galway is another of Fahey's & Friends interests.
Development Land!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't care what they build around it as long as it's built. Traffic is a nightmare at times, the by pass will help a lot.

Amhran Nua

galwayrush wrote: »

I don't care what they build around it as long as it's built. Traffic is a nightmare at times, the by pass will help a lot.

Its actually easier to do it right than wrong in this case. We'll be lucky if its not a toll road by the time the lads get through with it.

the keen edge

Xiney wrote: »

For all this recession has well and truly screwed me personally, at least it happened: I'll never take a stable economy for granted again. I will live frugally for the rest of my life. I will make sure I'm saving, and I will never get into debt (apart from probably a mortgage at some point - but a manageable one)


It's been a hard lesson (and I'm kind of ready to graduate now, kthx) but it's been probably the most important thing I've ever learned.

Are you using the "Celtic tiger years" as an example of a stable economy. I'd have to disagree with you on that.

I totally agree with the rest of your post though; Those old sayings you'd hear now have meaning for me.
I can say I now know the valve of a Euro. A pound saved is a pound earned, and all that.:)