Disgraced in Public

Michael Angelo.

Hey guys I just want some advice if possible.. I was socialising with friends in Galway City in the past few days.. As you do the hunger hit me before I went home, so I went to a well known establishment and purchased some food, I also purchased a drink as you do. I then left the shop. Out of no where a man runs out after me and starts accusing me of not paying for my drink.. I am mild mannered and ignored this man for a few seconds. Then I realised he was being serious!!! He basically accused me quite loudly of robbing the drink. Telling me to get back in and pay for it several times loudly with people staring!!! I told him I had paid for my drink and to go away. He completely shamed me on a busy street in Galway. At one point he actually tried to take the drink back!!! Now the final straw came when I went to walk away and he grabs my arm. I then told him in no uncertain terms to leave me alone. When I composed my self I discovered my reciept in my pocket!!! I went back into the shop and pointed out the item he had accuses me of stealing. And to top it all off he demanded to know what time was on the reciept, disbelieving me!!! Im not a happy camper lads and ladies what do you suggest??????

biko

GC->Consumer issues

challengemaster

Michael Angelo. wrote: »

Hey guys I just want some advice if possible.. I was socialising with friends in Galway City in the past few days.. As you do the hunger hit me before I went home, so I went to a well known establishment and purchased some food, I also purchased a drink as you do. I then left the shop. Out of no where a man runs out after me and starts accusing me of not paying for my drink.. I am mild mannered and ignored this man for a few seconds. Then I realised he was being serious!!! He basically accused me quite loudly of robbing the drink. Telling me to get back in and pay for it. I told him I had paid for my drink and to go away. He completely shamed me on a busy street in Galway. At one point he actually tried to take the drink back!!! Now the final straw came when I went to walk away and he grabs my arm. I then told him in no uncertain terms to lave me alone. When I composed my self I discovered my reciept in my pocket!!! I went back into the shop and pointed out the item he had accuses me of stealing. And to top it all off he demanded to know what time was on the reciept, disbelieving me!!! Im not a happy camper lads and ladies what do you suggest??????

Sue for assault....that'll learn him from doing it again

Magenta

Dunno if you can sue for assault with the whole citizen's arrest thing... but what he was "arresting" you for was wrong. However saying you stole something that you didn't is slander/defamation. You might get better advice if you post in the Legal section or alternatively talk to your solicitor.

foggy_lad

Magenta wrote: »

Dunno if you can sue for assault with the whole citizen's arrest thing... but what he was "arresting" you for was wrong. However saying you stole something that you didn't is slander/defamation. You might get better advice if you post in the Legal section or alternatively talk to your solicitor.

citizens arrest is fine but it leaves the arresting citizen open to being sued for wrongful arrest!

Victor

A nicely worded letter to headquarters will probably keep you in garlic burgers all year.

_Whimsical_

Did this man work in the shop?

If he was just a random nutjob did you get his name?

That was disgraceful behaviour on his part.He should have at least made a very loud apology to you there in public.I don't blame you for being angry. If you can do nothing about it try and take heart in the fact that anyone who reacts in such an unbalanced way and behaves so ignorantly will get their comeuppance someday when he picks on a less law abiding citizen than yourself. He was very lucky you weren't the kind of person who was inclined to beat him up!

_Whimsical_

Victor wrote: »

A nicely worded letter to headquarters will probably keep you in garlic burgers all year.

Good advice.Include names of witnesses and get it off in the post while they might still have their CCTV footage.

Ask for an unreserved apology printed in The Advertiser too. It is only fair that if he accuse you so publicly that he apologise publicly.

Cabaal

Letter to the owners/managers/franchise holder of the shop,

Oink

Michael Angelo. wrote: »

he grabs my arm

IANAL, but as someone said, is that not assault?

I can't give legal advice but personally I'd be expecting a written apology at the very least. And not in 6 months' time.



EDIT:

Ask for an unreserved apology printed in The Advertiser too

Nice!

wildefalcon

Assault, if I recall, is putting someone in fear of being attacked.

I think what he did was assault and battery, followed by false arrest.

This is a serious offence, and you should report it to the Guards, get a solicitor and take it from there.

If you do then I don't think you should discuss it any further on a publiuc forum, as it would be an ongoing case.

WildeFalcon.

fergiesfolly

Get a solicitors advice....and then sue like you're on a mission from God. Same(minus assault) happened to me several years ago in westside s.c and if a second shop assistant hadn't vouched for me, I don't know what I would have done as I had no receipt. Never so embarrassed in my life having this little scrote barrack me in public. Too young and dumb at the time to even think of suing, but I'd do it now in a heartbeat. Blood presssures rising now ,just thinking about it.

thesandeman

Went into Bananarepublic on Dominick St twice when it was there and BOTH times I was chased down the street and accused of not paying even though I had. No wonder they closed down with that attitude!

Cabaal

fergiesfolly wrote: »

Get a solicitors advice....and then sue like you're on a mission from God. .

Overreaction much?
:rolleyes:

biko

Go back and get another drink, this time don't pay.
Poetic justice.

whippet

I would suggest, chalking it up to experience, don't go there again and get on with life.

Why do you feel the need to 'do something', are you emotional scarred? physically harmed?

trad

Defamation according to a top legal firm
http://www.mop.ie/dynamic/files/Litigation%20Dept%20Practical%20Steps%20for%20retailers%20in%20dealing%20with%20shoplifters%20PW%20Shelflife%2019%20June.pdf

jor el

Did you go back and ask for the manager? That should be the first thing you do. Then ask them to make the employee apologise for what they did, and make them understand that you reserve the right to bring criminal proceedings against the employee (and the store itself as he was acting on their behalf) if you do not get satisfaction.

Apart from that, I don't really see what you can do, or what you would want to do. It's not like the guy beet you up in the street, he grabbed your arm and shouted at you. Unless your 5, that shouldn't be a major problem.

_Whimsical_

jor el wrote: »

Did you go back and ask for the manager? That should be the first thing you do. Then ask them to make the employee apologise for what they did, and make them understand that you reserve the right to bring criminal proceedings against the employee (and the store itself as he was acting on their behalf) if you do not get satisfaction.

Apart from that, I don't really see what you can do, or what you would want to do. It's not like the guy beet you up in the street, he grabbed your arm and shouted at you. Unless your 5, that shouldn't be a major problem.

I agree with the first part of your post but not so much with the second part.

Being grabbed and shouted at is horrible but it's not the end of the world if you come away from it in one piece. The kind of damage the experience could cause the OPs reputation is a bigger deal. Someone he works with or someone who might've been interviewing him the next day etc might've been passing and misinterpreted the situation in favour of the shop owner. It's not childish to be angry about that and want to have the damage it might cause be acknowledged and corrected.

trad

Read the attachment from Matthews Ormsby Prentice in my previous post. If some one makes unfounded allegations about you in the presence and hearing of members of the public they have defamated you.

wmpdd3

I have experience of other people in a similar situation getting a very handsome settlement from a supermarket.

thefinalstage

What's the big deal? I bet all the other intoxicated people don't even remember who you are.

smelltheglove

About 10 years ago I worked as an office junior in a legal firm. During the time of the Veronica Guerin case they sent me to the courts to try get in and see what was going on, when I couldnt get in I would check out what else was going on, one case I sat through was a man suing a pub for defamation after a bouncer held him to the wall accusing him of damaging a hanging picture in the pub. The pub didnt even show to defend themselves, well the owners, so the judge awarded the man a sum that was 4 figures, cant remember exactly but I think it was around the 7k mark, I remember walking away flabbergasted as being young I really didnt think people went around suing for things like that, but it worked in his favour.

If it was me though, I would feel a little silly suing, I would be more inclined to write a letter to the headoffice and avail of a substantial gift voucher and a nice apology.

slimjimmc

foggy_lad wrote: »

citizens arrest is fine but it leaves the arresting citizen open to being sued for wrongful arrest!

Yep, citizen's arrest is only legal if the offence carries a prison sentence of 5years or more.

(The term "Citizen's arrest" is a mis-nomer since you don't actually have to be a citizen, any person can do it).

Making an allegation of theft without sufficient evidence is dicing with a compensation bill.

trad

Where are you getting the 5 year bit?

Drunken driving is an arrestable offence but doesn't carry 5 years in prison as far as I can recall.

From what I'm reading in Sect 4 of the 1997 Criminal Law Act it's any arrestable offence, which could inculde a breach of the Public Order Act for example.

Unless of course, if you know better.

Boston

Sounds like you were pissed and belligerent.

wildefalcon wrote: »

Assault, if I recall, is putting someone in fear of being attacked.

I think what he did was assault and battery, followed by false arrest.

This is a serious offence, and you should report it to the Guards, get a solicitor and take it from there.

If you do then I don't think you should discuss it any further on a publiuc forum, as it would be an ongoing case.

WildeFalcon.

No it isn't asault and battery. Do you know what the word battery means? Put someone in fear of being attacked is assault. Putting a hand on someone is assault. Putting a hand on someone and causing them serious bodily harm is assault and battery.

krudler

Michael Angelo. wrote: »

Hey guys I just want some advice if possible.. I was socialising with friends in Galway City in the past few days.. As you do the hunger hit me before I went home, so I went to a well known establishment and purchased some food, I also purchased a drink as you do. I then left the shop. Out of no where a man runs out after me and starts accusing me of not paying for my drink.. I am mild mannered and ignored this man for a few seconds. Then I realised he was being serious!!! He basically accused me quite loudly of robbing the drink. Telling me to get back in and pay for it several times loudly with people staring!!! I told him I had paid for my drink and to go away. He completely shamed me on a busy street in Galway. At one point he actually tried to take the drink back!!! Now the final straw came when I went to walk away and he grabs my arm. I then told him in no uncertain terms to leave me alone. When I composed my self I discovered my reciept in my pocket!!! I went back into the shop and pointed out the item he had accuses me of stealing. And to top it all off he demanded to know what time was on the reciept, disbelieving me!!! Im not a happy camper lads and ladies what do you suggest??????

If it was a fast food restuarant how did he assume you even got the drink without paying for it? they have to give it to you, was this guy an employee or a random drunken ne'er do well?

MadMickeyMonk

Yes you can of course sue the establishment. I had a very similar experience about 7-8 years ago in dunnes stores in galway where the security guard ran outside the shop after me and wanted to look in my shopping bag. After telling this to my solictor he just asked me 2 things...
(1) Did he lay or place ONE FINGER on you?
(2) Was it done in view of members of the public causing you embarasment?
As this security guard put his hand on my shoulder and embarased me in front of the public outside the front door the solicitor took my case and dunnes stores settled out of court.
So i would ask yourself the same questions. If he/she put a finger on you, stopped you outside the shop demanding a search or return of property,embarased you in front of members of the public then i would strongly advise you to speak to a solicitor.
If you want you can PM me and I`ll tell you who took my case.

_Whimsical_

Michael Angelo. wrote: »

Hey guys I just want some advice if possible.. I was socialising with friends in Galway City in the past few days.. As you do the hunger hit me before I went home, so I went to a well known establishment and purchased some food, I also purchased a drink as you do. I then left the shop. Out of no where a man runs out after me and starts accusing me of not paying for my drink.. ?

fergiesfolly wrote: »

Get a solicitors advice....and then sue like you're on a mission from God. Same(minus assault) happened to me several years ago in westside s.c and if a second shop assistant hadn't vouched for me, I don't know what I would have done as I had no receipt....

MadMickeyMonk wrote: »

Yes you can of course sue the establishment. I had a very similar experience about 7-8 years ago in dunnes stores in galway where the security guard ran outside the shop after me and wanted to look in my shopping bag...

There are some very mistrustful Galway shop assistants out there...:eek:

amdublin

Personally if it was me I would just tell everyone about it and hopefully they will lose custom over it.

IMO if you go the legal route you will end up with about €3k in your back pocket, after about 4 years of arguing and the continual paying money out to solicitors and barristers. It is an emotionally draining process and frankly imo worse than what happened you initially.

Is it worth it?

ejmaztec

I disagree with folks advising the OP to ignore what happened. What's the point of having laws if they're not used?

Everybody knows that rumours spread like wildfire, and without anything in writing to prove otherwise, the rumours, often exaggerated, usually stick.

sesna

Sue, sue, sue... and we laugh at the Americans ?

But seriously, what an amateur attempt at security falsely accusing you when he obviously was not certain. Many would-be shop lifters dupe security guards into thinking they have stolen something, and bring legal action when falsely accused.

ejmaztec

sesna wrote: »

Sue, sue, sue... and we laugh at the Americans ?

But seriously, what an amateur attempt at security falsely accusing you when he obviously was not certain. Many would-be shop lifters dupe security guards into thinking they have stolen something, and bring legal action when falsely accused.

I know that Ireland's got its fair share of people who twist the situation with the sole intention of getting their hands on compensation, but there must be some legal guidelines that should be followed, so that the security people or other staff members don't walk right into a situation where the business ends up getting sued.

MadMickeyMonk

ejmaztec wrote: »

I know that Ireland's got its fair share of people who twist the situation with the sole intention of getting their hands on compensation, but there must be some legal guidelines that should be followed, so that the security people or other staff members don't walk right into a situation where the business ends up getting sued.

Yes its called training and regulation. Too many security staff think their on a par with the gardai and need to be calmed down. Funny enough I just read about another poster who had a similar experience in the westside sc which is where my incident happed 7-8 years ago. A lot of supermarkets used to hire ex members and retired members of the gardai so they really should know better.
Most solicitors will take the case on a no win no folly basis and you would not be waiting 4 years as some other poster has said.

Boston

Thats assuming you don't get costs awarded against you.

MadMickeyMonk

Boston wrote: »

Thats assuming you don't get costs awarded against you.

You cant if your solicitor is taking the case on a no win basis! Hes not going to take a case for you on them terms if there is a strong chance of you not winning. They normally make contact with the buisness first to get their side of the story then advise if they are to proceed or not on a no win no fee basis.

sesna

I wonder is it why alot of retail outlets use external security firms such as Q4S etc, security personnel who are not direct employees of the retail outlet? In that case the security company would be liable for any action taken, and not the retail outlet. Also much easier to get rid of any security staff who run into problems when they are just employed on a part-time contractual basis.

Victor

trad wrote: »

Where are you getting the 5 year bit?

Drunken driving is an arrestable offence but doesn't carry 5 years in prison as far as I can recall.

From what I'm reading in Sect 4 of the 1997 Criminal Law Act it's any arrestable offence, which could inculde a breach of the Public Order Act for example.

Unless of course, if you know better.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/act/pub/0014/sec0002.html

Criminal Law Act, 1997 wrote:

Interpretation. 2.—(1) In this Act, and in any amendment made by this Act in any other enactment—
"arrestable offence" means an offence for which a person of full capacity and not previously convicted may, under or by virtue of any enactment, be punished by imprisonment for a term of five years or by a more severe penalty and includes an attempt to commit any such offence;

trad wrote: »

Where are you getting the 5 year bit?

Drunken driving is an arrestable offence but doesn't carry 5 years in prison as far as I can recall.

A garda can arrest for a lot more than someone else.

MadMickeyMonk wrote: »

no win no folly basis

No foal no fee basis?

Magenta

OP any update on this?

dudara

OP, I'm closing this thread, as it is not a Consumer Issue. You may wish to create a post in the Legal Issues forum, but I would advise you to contact a mod there first, because I am unsure as to what is allowed there.

dudara