Freeview in Louth

Finne1993

Done an install today fairly high up in the Cooley mountains and pulled in the 2 BBC muxes on freeview by pure fluke, North West region on a Vertical group B contract aerial, signal strength and quality around 75%. It came in on channels 43 and 46, I done a quick google there and it does'nt seem to be coming from a main transmitter, any ideas what relay its likely to be coming from?

Finne1993

Answering my own question here, looks like its coming from Beary Park in the Isle of Man, a small relay so its unusual to be picking that up but as I said I was up in the mountains, they only have the 2 PSB muxes and the HD mux is coming online in June on channel 50.
A satisfied customer anyway as his digital tvs are all pulling in a few extra chanels and all I went to do was pick up the RTE DTT tests from Three Rock/Kippure (Clermont completely blocked by the mountain) and 4 UK channels from Kilkeel!

lucernarian

Well for those who aren't swamped by Cairn Hill's 800 kW transmitter in Louth:p

Did you try to see if Caldbeck or Winter Hill was receivable?

mrdtv2010

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

Well for those who aren't swamped by Cairn Hill's 800 kW transmitter in Louth:p

Did you try to see if Caldbeck or Winter Hill was receivable?

Beary Park, Jurby and Port St Mary operate as an SFN. You will probably benefit from 3dB network gain. IIRC the Caldbeck group is going HD in October. Beary Park etc are also received on the East Down coast so this is no surprise, but anybody within the Cairn Hill footprint has no chance. Winter Hill is received in East and South Down including T2 HD I gather.

lucernarian

Hah, I receive grade 3 Cairn Hill (working teletext on RTE 1, 2 and sometimes TG4) with the aerial in wrong polarisation and 100 degrees off too. So I've got no chance of receiving any such co-channel transmissions.

But I wonder if Caldbeck and Winter Hill can be received as southwesterly as Louth. I can't find out, as the USB DVB-T dongle I have has woeful sensitivity. I can watch Clermont Carn successfully with minor breakup but not any other of the 3/4 DVB-T transmitter muxes that the TV or Humax box can pick up. This is through an outdoor aerial.

mrdtv2010

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

Hah, I receive grade 3 Cairn Hill (working teletext on RTE 1, 2 and sometimes TG4) with the aerial in wrong polarisation and 100 degrees off too. So I've got no chance of receiving any such co-channel transmissions.

But I wonder if Caldbeck and Winter Hill can be received as southwesterly as Louth. I can't find out, as the USB DVB-T dongle I have has woeful sensitivity. I can watch Clermont Carn successfully with minor breakup but not any other of the 3/4 DVB-T transmitter muxes that the TV or Humax box can pick up. This is through an outdoor aerial.

I would think some parts of Louth are possible for Caldbeck, but the main problem is Snaefell is in the way, although Caldbeck is receivable very well high up in South Down as is Winter Hill. Winter Hill is also possible although, again it has some CCI relationships with Three Rock. WH is SE of Louth.

Finne1993

Finne1993 wrote: »

Answering my own question here, looks like its coming from Beary Park in the Isle of Man, a small relay so its unusual to be picking that up but as I said I was up in the mountains, they only have the 2 PSB muxes and the HD mux is coming online in June on channel 50.
A satisfied customer anyway as his digital tvs are all pulling in a few extra chanels and all I went to do was pick up the RTE DTT tests from Three Rock/Kippure (Clermont completely blocked by the mountain) and 4 UK channels from Kilkeel!

You should consider a proper group B for there pointed correctly for the isle of man as the guy will lose those channels probably in certain weather conditions unless of course it's the case that the IOM is in the same direction as kilkeel?

lucernarian

Most of the Cooley is southwest of Kilkeel roughly speaking, so it's highly likely any aerial receiving TV from the IoM is due to pointing towards Kilkeel. I regularly received ITV from Douglas I think, though it was usually very poor quality in non-lifting conditions.

mrdtv2010

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

Most of the Cooley is southwest of Kilkeel roughly speaking, so it's highly likely any aerial receiving TV from the IoM is due to pointing towards Kilkeel. I regularly received ITV from Douglas I think, though it was usually very poor quality in non-lifting conditions.

Kilkeel is Group B just like the Beary Park SFN system: they are in the same general direction. This is the difference between DTT and analogue: if you get it at all you get it perfectly unlike PAL which is why these stations are popping up in Ireland.

lucernarian

Speaking of getting a signal very poorly, it looks like our good friends over at RTENL have also inadvertently wiped out my reception of Kilkeel, particularly BBC1 and Ch4 which has now no signal whatsoever. I know a DTT multiplex of some sort is the cause as a TV and a set top box both detect a multiplex with good signal strength and fair to poor quality on Ch. 39. Somehow I fear I'm going to be on the wrong side of "all or nothing" when ASO comes along and Mt. Leinster is on full power.

mrdtv2010

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

Speaking of getting a signal very poorly, it looks like our good friends over at RTENL have also inadvertently wiped out my reception of Kilkeel, particularly BBC1 and Ch4 which has now no signal whatsoever. I know a DTT multiplex of some sort is the cause as a TV and a set top box both detect a multiplex with good signal strength and fair to poor quality on Ch. 39. Somehow I fear I'm going to be on the wrong side of "all or nothing" when ASO comes along and Mt. Leinster is on full power.

Ch 39 is Mount Leinster DTT & Kilkeel analogue. Its surprising its radiating that far north: no doubt Ofcom will investigate if there are any interference complaints in South Down following vociferous Unionist complaints about complaints to British Television, there was something in the Down Recorder IIRC a while back(he added with a smile!).

lucernarian

I haven't been able to definitively prove whether it's Mt. Leinster or not but I don't know of any other station on this island broadcasting DTT on Ch. 39. The mux can't be scanned for channels for some reason but the TV spends over a minute trying to scan it before giving up. Its presence is usually but not always detected by the TV when I scan.

Kippure and Three Rock are slightly easier to pick up than Clermont Carn because of the layout of the hills and Divis and Kilkeel seem to be received at similar (weak) strengths here. Cairn Hill is easiest with an unobstructed view westwards. I might change it to that to provide some longevity before the Drogheda relay wipes that out too.

Finne1993

Deleted User wrote: »

You should consider a proper group B for there pointed correctly for the isle of man as the guy will lose those channels probably in certain weather conditions unless of course it's the case that the IOM is in the same direction as kilkeel?

I just had to fine tune the aerial position once I picked it up, I was initially getting about 40% signal quality, then when I raised the aerial another 2 foot and moved it ever so slightly southwards it was around 75-80%.
I was up with him again today checking it out and he was very happy with it and its all working fine but I told him to keep a close eye on it for break ups as I'd say he'll pick up Caldbeck handy enough at that height because I picked it up once before at my own house and I'd be about 100ft or so below his house and I might change his set up.
He said I'm welcome to test away at his house anytime I want so I might take him up on that offer in the next few weeks if things are slack.
Its great knowing its available here at the minute as we've 3 years to wait till the NI switchover. Hopefully they'll start testing at Kilkeel and a few of the other relays a lot sooner than that.

mrdtv2010

Finne1993 wrote: »

I just had to fine tune the aerial position once I picked it up, I was initially getting about 40% signal quality, then when I raised the aerial another 2 foot and moved it ever so slightly southwards it was around 75-80%.
I was up with him again today checking it out and he was very happy with it and its all working fine but I told him to keep a close eye on it for break ups as I'd say he'll pick up Caldbeck handy enough at that height because I picked it up once before at my own house and I'd be about 100ft or so below his house and I might change his set up.
He said I'm welcome to test away at his house anytime I want so I might take him up on that offer in the next few weeks if things are slack.
Its great knowing its available here at the minute as we've 3 years to wait till the NI switchover. Hopefully they'll start testing at Kilkeel and a few of the other relays a lot sooner than that.

Probably because you had peaked on Kilkeel and Beary Park is a bit further out. That should provide a reliable service. Caldbeck PSB muxes are clear but Caldbeck COM muxes have CCI with both Divis low power PSB and Three Rock analogue: mind you Caldbeck is a belter of a transmitter. Another option would be Winter Hill if you have a clear shot in that direction as they get it easily high up in South Down and that is another belter. Its worth carrying out an investigation. I think Caldbeck Group goes T2 in October but Douglas Group may be earlier than that. Winter Hill is on now.

Kilkeel won't be reengineered till the new mast is up at Divis: the groundworks will be finished soon and the mast will be going up this sumer. Then they will install the new antennas and transmitters at Divis, followed by the relays. You'll know when that happens: there will be lots of service outages, low power working and it'll be on the DUK web site. In the meantime let us know what's happening there.

Finne1993

Yes, its very interesting but I do think the height I was working at was a major factor in picking up the signals I did especially from a low power relay like Beary Peark.
I reckon I'd pull in both Caldbeck and Winter Hill handy enough but Winter Hill has more co-channel problems than Caldbeck. Ch 59, 61 and 62 are co-channel with TV3/TG4/DTT tests at Kippure and Ch 54 is co channel with the RTE DTT test mux at Three Rock and as its neccessary to have one of these Irish transmitters combined with your UK set up to receive all stations on your TV/STB, its a non runner as far as a regular home set up is concerned but very interesting for the enthusiast!

I'll post back any more info on this thread in the next few weeks.

Peddyr

Finne1993 wrote: »

Answering my own question here, looks like its coming from Beary Park in the Isle of Man, a small relay so its unusual to be picking that up but as I said I was up in the mountains, they only have the 2 PSB muxes and the HD mux is coming online in June on channel 50.
A satisfied customer anyway as his digital tvs are all pulling in a few extra chanels and all I went to do was pick up the RTE DTT tests from Three Rock/Kippure (Clermont completely blocked by the mountain) and 4 UK channels from Kilkeel!

Could be Beary Pairk (Irish = Pairc) or Port St Mary... PSM is my local relay for UK DTT but I get strong 3Rock, Kippure, CC (analogue) and Divis. It´s possible that PSM could make it into the Cooleys as it´s clear line of sight and I can see them from my front window. I can even see CC mast on a clear day with a cheap set of binoculars!

mrdtv2010

Peddyr wrote: »

Could be Beary Pairk (Irish = Pairc) or Port St Mary... PSM is my local relay for UK DTT but I get strong 3Rock, Kippure, CC (analogue) and Divis. It´s possible that PSM could make it into the Cooleys as it´s clear line of sight and I can see them from my front window. I can even see CC mast on a clear day with a cheap set of binoculars!

Beary-Park, Jurby and Port St Mary operate as a an SFN. Port St Mary is the highest power station operating at 2kW which is probably the dominant contributor of the signal to Louth. Its power was upped in late 2009 to minimise CCI with Cairn Hill analogue. I suspect you'll only get this in parts of Louth where there is no Cairn Hill available and , as stated by the OP, the height in the Cooleys is indeed a very considerable factor. As part of the Douglas transmitter group they will get HD services in October 2010. Caldbeck is probably the best bet from a CCI perspective as its PSB muxes are not cochannel with any Irish or Northern Ireland DTT and it is being received in East and South Down, however its COM muxes are restricted westward until 2012 when Divis changes over its frequencies and ups its ERP by a factor of fifty.

Finne1993

Just like to add a little more to this thread!

I done some testing at my own house and as I said previously I live considerably lower than the house I was working at in the Cooley mountains but I do have a clear sight out to sea but I got nothing at all, no digital multiplexes from any transmitter (Well apart from Three Rock and Kippure!) I tried a number of different grouped aerials and varying types of masthead amplifiers and no go, I focused mainly on Winter Hill and Caldbeck, not a peep, the TV didnt even half register a signal!

So the height is major part in receiving UK signals where I am anyway, hopefully I'll get another chance to test at that house on the mountain, I'd be just interested to see if it its possible from there.

As an aside, while I was messing about with the aerials, I pointed at Divis which is blocked from me by the Mourne Mountains and got near perfect analogue but no DTT, this would tell me that when Divis goes full power I should receive it.

I also pointed at Claremont Carn which is completely blocked from me by the Cooley mountains and I was surprised to get near perfect RTE1, the rest were'nt great but again there was no DTT! The signal is obviously nulled in this direction, I suppose not much point having it broadcast in this direction as we have the Greenore relay which will go digital at some stage and we can receive Three Rock and Kippure from here. I get perfect TV3, TG4 analogue and DTT from Kippure through an amplified contract aerial in my attic and near perfect RTE and DTT from Three Rock but I use Greenore for the RTE's instead as the same vertical group B aerial takes in the Kilkeel channels also.

mrdtv2010

Finne1993 wrote: »

Just like to add a little more to this thread!

I done some testing at my own house and as I said previously I live considerably lower than the house I was working at in the Cooley mountains but I do have a clear sight out to sea but I got nothing at all, no digital multiplexes from any transmitter (Well apart from Three Rock and Kippure!) I tried a number of different grouped aerials and varying types of masthead amplifiers and no go, I focused mainly on Winter Hill and Caldbeck, not a peep, the TV didnt even half register a signal!

So the height is major part in receiving UK signals where I am anyway, hopefully I'll get another chance to test at that house on the mountain, I'd be just interested to see if it its possible from there.

As an aside, while I was messing about with the aerials, I pointed at Divis which is blocked from me by the Mourne Mountains and got near perfect analogue but no DTT, this would tell me that when Divis goes full power I should receive it.

I also pointed at Claremont Carn which is completely blocked from me by the Cooley mountains and I was surprised to get near perfect RTE1, the rest were'nt great but again there was no DTT! The signal is obviously nulled in this direction, I suppose not much point having it broadcast in this direction as we have the Greenore relay which will go digital at some stage and we can receive Three Rock and Kippure from here. I get perfect TV3, TG4 analogue and DTT from Kippure through an amplified contract aerial in my attic and near perfect RTE and DTT from Three Rock but I use Greenore for the RTE's instead as the same vertical group B aerial takes in the Kilkeel channels also.

If you have Three Rock/Kippure easily then you have CCI issues on four muxes and WH is quite a distance and, as you say, at sea level is a big ask. The problem with Caldbeck is that the Isle of Man is in the way and forms a natural signal barrier at low heights, it has CCI issues on the COM muxes with the current Divis low power PSB muxes. If you are getting CCIR Grade 5.0 PAL from Divis then you will have excellent DTT in 2012 when it goes from 2.3kW to 100kW, and COFDM won't be disturbed by the mountains. Kilkeel will also be straightforward then.

Obviously the higher you go and with clear sea paths the longer the radio horizon, so your client in the Cooleys probably has quite an extended choice. You, of course, will be well within the radio horizon of Divis as you can see it from the border road just beyond Newry!

Finne1993

Switched on my tv's this morning and got the new DVB services message on screen, the re-scan brought in the PSB muxes from Caldbeck on CH 25 and 28, signal between 20-30% on CH25 and 40-60% on CH28.
I got this before from Caldbeck in lift conditions but never with such a strong signal and my aerial is in my attic vertically polarised so I really should'nt be getting anything.
Anyone know if the power was bumped up recently or anyone with similar experiences?

Finne1993

Its happened again with this fine weather, Caldbeck is absolutely blasting in now on my group B contract attic aerial that is polarised vertically! All muxes coming in fine, 100% signal on the PSB muxes and the others coming in at around 40-50%. Pity its not going to last though!!