Architectural design for Planners??

pook

Originally Posted by pook
How successful are architects (or architect technicians) at obtaining planning where an extension is required to a Listed building?

We have had our application refused despite taking advice of conservation officer. The Planner had no objection.

How do fees vary between an architect and a registered? architectural technologist

justflow1983

In this case you need a Conservation Architect. They are registered in different grades with the RIAI and should be able to give you the right design as well as deal with the local authorities in a way that gets you permission.

sinnerboy

You need to look to the report attaching to the refusal - ask for that at your local authority - you will NOT get it as a matter of course

There you will see in detail the reasoning behind the refusal - despite the support of the planner .

I don't believe the particular qualification of your agent is the issue . As an Architectural Technician I have on several occasions obtained such permissions

Mellor

justflow1983 wrote: »

In this case you need a Conservation Architect

This isn't true.
the RIAI isn't the only body that deals with conservation professionals.

Also, a conservation specialist isn't needed for planning. However, the LA (or an objecting bodies influence) may require a conservation professional for construction phase. Which is obviously different

DOCARCH

Mellor wrote: »

This isn't true.
the RIAI isn't the only body that deals with conservation professionals.

Also, a conservation specialist isn't needed for planning. However, the LA (or an objecting bodies influence) may require a conservation professional for construction phase. Which is obviously different

But you do need somebody with conservation experience for planning as a conservation report/architectural impact assessment must be submitted with the planning application.

justflow1983

Engaging a professional with conservation experience will give you the best shot at having your planning application done in a way that gets you approval. They also will make sure that the work done legitimately respects the listed structure.

Its true that this person doesn't have to be RIAI accredited or registered through any other body. I try to make a point of recommending best practices only, and by that measure I recommend one use a qualified conservation architect to consult on and supervise the works. They are often available as consultants at a lower rate (I am not one and am not trying to drum up work).

Mellor

DOCARCH wrote: »

But you do need somebody with conservation experience for planning as a conservation report/architectural impact assessment must be submitted with the planning application.

As just justflow mentions, a consultant can offer this service to reduce overall costs.

justflow1983 wrote: »

Engaging a professional with conservation experience will give you the best shot at having your planning application done in a way that gets you approval. They also will make sure that the work done legitimately respects the listed structure.

Its true that this person doesn't have to be RIAI accredited or registered through any other body. I try to make a point of recommending best practices only, and by that measure I recommend one use a qualified conservation architect to consult on and supervise the works. They are often available as consultants at a lower rate (I am not one and am not trying to drum up work).

I was, would never, suggest using somebody who wasn't qualified. I was pointing out that somebody qualified might not be RIAI graded. And also, as you said, the consulatant option very much viable.

pook

Thanks everyone for a lot of info to consider.

However, the overriding question remains how best can an architect draw together acceptable outside appearance drawn from the huge quantity of advice (personal choice?) offered by a conservation officer? And no two officers appear to use the same criteria. How can one best deal with such a moving target? What are the main objectives?

Pook

justflow1983

Its a matter of experience. Even the best of them won't get an application through every time, but they've done it enough times that when the officer gives them clients they can "read between the lines." The criteria is very subjective, but often a conservation architect following accepted methods will be able to do something the conservation officer approves. Also, if they're local, they may have dealt with the local authorities enough times that they know what the authorities want to see.

sinnerboy

pook wrote: »

What are the main objectives?

sinnerboy wrote: »

You need to look to the report attaching to the refusal

.

DBK100

justflow1983 wrote: »

Its a matter of experience. Even the best of them won't get an application through every time, but they've done it enough times that when the officer gives them clients they can "read between the lines." The criteria is very subjective, but often a conservation architect following accepted methods will be able to do something the conservation officer approves. Also, if they're local, they may have dealt with the local authorities enough times that they know what the authorities want to see.

Info on RIAI Accreditation System:
http://www.riai.ie/consumer/protecte...accreditation/

There is no stipulation that an architect with conservation accreditation is required for the type of work described to a protected structure.
It is however a requirement to submit a Conservation Report (including impact statement) as part of a planning application relating to a protected structure. This can be prepared by anyone - architect or not - but obviously it will carry different weight for the reader (planner) if it contains the research, opinion and conclusions of an accredited conservation architect as opposed to an unaccredited architect or building professional.
Depending on the subject building and its significance, the planning officer may well (and correctly) insist on this report being prepared by a conservation architect of a particular grade.

It should be noted that a lot of Local Authority Development Plans encourage contemporary and 'of-their-own-time' sensitive additions to protected structures. They will often favour this approach over a pastiche replication of the existing (usually of inferior quality & workmanship).

Securing PP for an extension to a protected structure is not rocket science, but the key is sensitivity to the existing building.
Once the design quality is there, the next most important element is how the case for the proposal is made to the planners & conservation officers.
The quality of drawn information, including 3D representation is very important, but just as critical is the written Design Stage Report which explains the design, & in terms that can be readily understood.
This document should also anticipate concerns planners & others may have, and in effect deal with them before they are even raised.

DBK100

pook

Thank you DBKI. There is much to consider in your mail; the link to RIAI will be carefully looked over.

But is there similar qualification for an registered architectural technician?
Can he meet the same standards?

Looked at from the point of view of the client is it true to say that one of the paramount factors seems to be whether or not a favoured professional has dealt successfully with the Local Authority in question?

Pook

sydthebeat

pook wrote: »

Looked at from the point of view of the client is it true to say that one of the paramount factors seems to be whether or not a favoured professional has dealt successfully with the Local Authority in question?

Its all about the experience and competency of the person.

as DBK100 and others have stated, a 'conservation' architect does not have to be the one designing the project, or be the agent of the project. Its commonplace for applications on protected structures to require a report from a 'competent professional' in regard to the existing structure and the impact of the proposed works.

I have designed work on protected structures before. I, in one case, actually engaged a conservation architect to do a report, and he himself recommended the refusal of the proposal as designed. The planning authority took on board his opinion, but granted the permission anyway as they have to take all considerations into account, not just conservation merit.

The designer has to take all factors into account, not just conservation. Therefore a design based solely on conservation could end up not being in accordance with the required brief. As DBK states its all about being sensitive to the existing. In my opinion the best way is to design an extension that is confident enough to stand on its own merits as a modern contemporary building. This has the added advantage of complementing and enhancing the elements of the existing. If you try to assimilate the new work too close to the original you run the real risk of pastiche.

I dont understand why the application was refused, despite you saying that the planner "had no objection".

Is there some reason your not posting the reason(s) for refusal??

have you read the planing report???

I dont at all see why you are questioning fees, especially if you say "the planner had no objection"....????

pook

Moderator - I am sorry if you have been mislead.

We are not questioning fees re the refusal. Merely looking to the best way forward for success. The specialities of professionals has now been explained by this Board's replies.

We are seeking to re-submit our application using the best possible professional this time. Hence the initial post.

When I say the Planner perhaps I should have said the Case Officer made no objections: he had clarified the footprint and offered a lot of informal advice at an earlier stage. Unfortunately drawings seem not then have been passed before conservation at an initial stage.

Although it was thought the advice of the conservation officer had been incorporated all the refusal points were made by that conservation officer. Clearly the design was poor and our man had no experience dealing with Listed buildings.

OK we were naive, and had plans were drawn by a surveyor brought in by a local builder. We cannot now afford to make another mistakes.

Thus we are seeking the input of experience and design flair. Names have been passed to us: some are architects, some architectural technicians. We are not yet sure who to approach. Hence the first post.

Pook

sinnerboy

pook wrote: »

We are not yet sure who to approach.

Ask each to give you details of their track record as it relates specific to your needs . Pick your professional on this basis firstly . Then negotiate the fee .

sydthebeat

sinnerboy wrote: »

Ask each to give you details of their track record as it relates specific to your needs . Pick your professional on this basis firstly . Then negotiate the fee .

+1

onq

pook wrote: »

Originally Posted by pook
How successful are architects (or architect technicians) at obtaining planning where an extension is required to a Listed building?
<snip>

We've done two, got both
Used a Cons. Arch on the last
Both were hard to do.

ONQ.