Nigel Farage

Amtmann

After seeing some of his lambasting of Herman van Rompuy in Brussels today (where he demanded, "Who are you?" and said he, Rompuy, looked like a low grade bank clerk from a non-country), I was again struck by his oratorical skills. I have to ask: Is he a rabble-rousing demagogue, or is he right? I tend towards thinking the former myself, but I am quite uninformed about him and UKIP generally. Yet whenever I hear him, I come away with plenty of food for thought. What do people here think of him?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxESjGmqqw4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vBqyG6qYXE&feature=related

Euro_Kraut

I think he is an attention whore. How are today comments supposed to be constructive? Belgium a non-country? The guy is arrogant and bigoted.

His biggest contribution to the EU was his crucial role in helping Ireland pass the Lisbon treaty. Note that he choose to make fun of a person appearence and their nationality. That's bully boy behavior in my book and not in the least bit admirable.

Martin 2

He's basically trying to raise the UKIP's profile and strengthen their anti-EU credentials for the upcoming UK elections.

His extremely personal attack on Van Rompuy and insulting comment regarding Belgium are unacceptable and worthy of some sort of reprimand by the parliament.

View

Furet wrote: »

After seeing some of his lambasting of Herman van Rompuy in Brussels today (where he demanded, "Who are you?" and said he, Rompuy, looked like a low grade bank clerk from a non-country), I was again struck by his oratorical skills. I have to ask: Is he a rabble-rousing demagogue, or is he right? I tend towards thinking the former myself, but I am quite uninformed about him and UKIP generally. Yet whenever I hear him, I come away with plenty of food for thought. What do people here think of him?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxESjGmqqw4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vBqyG6qYXE&feature=related

Personal insults by a speaker are a poor substitute for political ability. It is largely irrelevant how van Rompuy looks - how does that effect how he does his job? Nobody is suggesting van Rompuy is trying to out shine super-models.

Scofflaw

Martin 2 wrote: »

He's basically trying to raise the UKIP's profile and strengthen their anti-EU credentials for the upcoming UK elections.

His extremely personal attack on Van Rompuy and insulting comment regarding Belgium are unacceptable and worthy of some sort of reprimand by the parliament.

That's pretty much it in a nutshell. Farage is simply doing the equivalent of the Sun's "Up Yours, Delors!" of happy memory.

amused,
Scofflaw

Martin 2

Scofflaw wrote: »

That's pretty much it in a nutshell. Farage is simply doing the equivalent of the Sun's "Up Yours, Delors!" of happy memory.

amused,
Scofflaw

Ah yes, I remember it well, but I saw Jacques Delors interviewed a few years later and he was amused by the whole incident I guess it didn't harm his rep back in France to have got the wind up "la perfide Albion".

ei.sdraob

If anyone wants an illustration of what UKBritain would look like under Nigel

i highly recommend watching this film


> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/81/VforVendettaNorsefire.jpg

mike65

He may be a somewhat crude nationalist but is he wrong? Van Rompuy is the very personification of a euro-nobody. A leader? Someone who the rest of the world can look towards when dealing with "Europe"? Hardly.

Amtmann

Here's a fuller version of Farage's diatribe:

View

mike65 wrote: »

He may be a somewhat crude nationalist but is he wrong? Van Rompuy is the very personification of a euro-nobody. A leader? Someone who the rest of the world can look towards when dealing with "Europe"? Hardly.

Yes, he is wrong. Van Rompuy is the President of the European Council - a chairman style-role which involves keeping the European Council "on track" and ensuring it is able to reach decisions. It is a role that is closer to that of the President of the European Parliament (i.e. a Ceann Comhairle role) than to some sort of "action figure" role.

Since the 3 major Presidencies in the EU are all held by ex-PMs, it is kind of hard to see what sort of "euro-somebody" the Eurosceptics would like to have in the positions. I suppose it could just a case of: "They didn't choose me, so I'll have a tantrum instead" by Farage et al.

Daftendirekt

View wrote: »

Yes, he is wrong. Van Rompuy is the President of the European Council - a chairman style-role which involves keeping the European Council "on track" and ensuring it is able to reach decisions. It is a role that is closer to that of the President of the European Parliament (i.e. a Ceann Comhairle role) than to some sort of "action figure" role.

Since the 3 major Presidencies in the EU are all held by ex-PMs, it is kind of hard to see what sort of "euro-somebody" the Eurosceptics would like to have in the positions. I suppose it could just a case of: "They didn't choose me, so I'll have a tantrum instead" by Farage et al.

I was amused to see Farage ranting about how the Council President was supposed to be some sort of all-powerful leader of the European people, when AFAIR this was just part of UKIP's own anti-Lisbon propaganda. The only people who claimed the President would be doing anything other than chairing meetings and reporting to the Parliament were the vocal 'No to Lisbon' campaigners.

Incidentally, is this the typical debating style in Brussels, ad hominems and personal abuse, or is Farage just a twat?

Dempo1

I have to say i found his outburst amusing albeit a little offensive, i thought the new president was going to cry. Nigel is a thug at the best of times but to be fair to him, he maintains a high profile good or bad. It also seems to me we only hear anything from the EU when occasional outbursts like this occur, remember the German MEP who was accused of being akin to a Nazi concentration camp Gard?

Pity we don't have some quality MEP's to stand up and have OUR interests heard a little more, the EU is nothing more than a gathering of Dead Sheep.

Scofflaw

mike65 wrote: »

He may be a somewhat crude nationalist but is he wrong? Van Rompuy is the very personification of a euro-nobody. A leader? Someone who the rest of the world can look towards when dealing with "Europe"? Hardly.

I hate to say it, but the definition of "euro-nobody" appears to be based on whether we've heard about them. I somehow suspect that we'd be a little offended if Farage had applied the same remarks to Cowen and Ireland - yet I doubt much of Europe could tell you who the current Irish Taoiseach is, and I know for a fact that there are plenty of people in England who are unaware that Ireland is a "real country" (come to that, there are plenty of people in Ireland who view the "26 county free state" as a "non-country").

Anyway, prominent member of party with little but xenophobic and anti-EU rhetoric to offer engages in xenophobic and anti-EU rhetoric in run-up to elections...

amused,
Scofflaw

Lockstep

Disgraceful behaviour and pandering to the sort of gutter politics that shouldn't be happening in Europe.


I want a Council President who can form a consensus and get the different factions to work together and achieve something. Von Rompuey is good at this, I couldn't give a toss if he looks like some sort of EU superman or not.

Throwing in ad hominems and remarks about Belgium only make it worse.

View

Dempo1 wrote: »

Pity we don't have some quality MEP's to stand up and have OUR interests heard a little more, the EU is nothing more than a gathering of Dead Sheep.

If by "OUR interests" you mean Eurosceptics' interests then, yes, it really is a "pity". Mind you, that might be because an overwhelming majority of the electorate here do NOT vote for Eurosceptic candidates to be their elected MEPs.

Instead, the majority of the electorate prefer to elect pro-EU candidates who are members of the 3 major political parties/groups in the European Parliament. Those parties actually directly influence the EU's laws and policies unlike the ones who just make noise a lot.

Dinner

Furet wrote: »

(where he demanded, "Who are you?" and said he, Rompuy, looked like a low grade bank clerk from a non-country)

I'm not surprised Nig has never heard of him, he's demonstrated often enough that research isn't his strong point, choosing instead to nick his opinions from the Daily Mail.

Incidentally, I wonder how many Belgians have heard of Nigel. Not too many I hope, when it comes to Nigel Farage, ignorance is bliss.

baalthor

If he thinks Belgium is a non-country, we can only imagine his true opinion of Ireland!

I laughed when I read the UKIP anti-Lisbon leaflet and saw that they were warning that Ireland would become a net contributor to the EU. Surely UKIP would want more countries contributing to the budget?
Of course, if they got their way and the UK left the EU, then Ireland would definitely becomes a net contributor!

Aidric

Quite a disgusting personal attack.

Euro_Kraut

Dinner wrote: »

I'm not surprised Nig has never heard of him, he's demonstrated often enough that research isn't his strong point, choosing instead to nick his opinions from the Daily Mail.

He was the Prime Minister of the country that Farge has been working in for the past few years. Seems like Mr Farage wasn't making much of an effort to get to know the politics of his host county. Damm immigrants, refusing to integrate.

killer_cain

I think a point everyone is missing is that Farage is a publicly ELECTED representitive, van Rompuy is UNELECTED. I'm suprised no-one here seems to care..... say I had worked my arse off to get elected then someone most people in my parliment have never heard of is simply handed the top job, I'D want to know who he is would'nt you???:mad:

ei.sdraob

killer_cain wrote: »

I think a point everyone is missing is that Farage is a publicly ELECTED representitive, van Rompuy is UNELECTED. I'm suprised no-one here seems to care..... say I had worked my arse off to get elected then someone most people in my parliment have never heard of is simply handed the top job, I'D want to know who he is would'nt you???:mad:

calm down you

killer_cain

the fact is the people had no say in this appointment, that's the problem

ei.sdraob

killer_cain wrote: »

the fact is the people had no say in this appointment, that's the problem

that's like saying people had no say in appointing Brian Cowen

you still fail to see how silly your "argument" sounds?

killer_cain

not getting through to you euro nuts am I? Cowen was VOTED FOR and ELECTED by the PEOPLE, van Rompuy was NEITHER:cool:

ei.sdraob

killer_cain wrote: »

not getting through to you euro nuts am I? Cowen was VOTED FOR and ELECTED by the PEOPLE, van Rompuy was NEITHER:cool:

"euro-nuts" ? :rolleyes:


1. Cowen was not voted in and elected by the people, his party was (see representational democracy link few posts up) and they then chose him

2. Herman Van Rompuy was elected by the European council to his position, the European Council consists of people voted in by the citizens of their respective countries


aside: Herman Van Rompuy was an elected ministed and prime minister in Belgium, he didn't materialize out of think air but is a public figure with a good record



you obviously fail to understand how representative democracy works, here or in EU

in your own "misunderstanding" you are making a fool of yourself, i provided a link to you earlier, but you failed to join the dots (between 1 and 2 above) and grasp a basic understanding of this "exotic" concept of representational democracy

killer_cain

when you get time, climb down out of your rear end for a civil conversation, I'm not sure where this anger is coming from, both you and others on these pages

is it not better than to discuss ideas objectively through a healthy debate instead of attacking any slightly differing ideas, something to think about while you chill out a little, sounds a few of you need to:cool:

later you euro-nuts:rolleyes:

ei.sdraob

killer_cain wrote: »

when you get time, climb down out of your rear end for a civil conversation, I'm not sure where this anger is coming from, both you and others on these pages

is it not better than to discuss ideas objectively through a healthy debate instead of attacking any slightly differing ideas, something to think about while you chill out a little, sounds a few of you need to:cool:

later you euro-nuts:rolleyes:

im not the one calling people names in this thread
you want a "healthy debate" then fine


please demonstrate how

killer_cain wrote:

people had no say in this appointment, that's the problem

go right ahead, and btw he was elected not appointed


by your line of thinking

"people had no say in appointment of Brian Cowen"

:cool:

View

killer_cain wrote: »

not getting through to you euro nuts am I? Cowen was VOTED FOR and ELECTED by the PEOPLE, van Rompuy was NEITHER:cool:

Cowen was elected a T.D. by the people of Laois-Offaly. He was appointed Taoiseach by the President (See Article 13.1 of Bunreacht na hEireann).

All our Taoisigh are appointed to office. The people have never elected any of our politicans to the office of Taoisigh.

Van Rompuy was elected a Member of the (Belgian) Chamber of Representatives by the people of Brussels-Halle-Vilvoorde. He was appointed to be Prime Minister by the King of Belgium.

Both Cowen and Van Rompuy require/d the support of their respective Parliaments to attain their offices and to remain in them.

Subsequently, Van Rompuy was elected to be President of the European Council by the Heads of Government of the 27 EU member states (See Article 15.5 of the TEU). As required, he resigned his office as Belgian PM once elected to be President of the European Council (See Article 15.6 of the TEU).