Landlady: unfair termination

osho

Hi,

I and my wife has been living in an apartment since last 4.5 years. we have never missed our rent neither we ever have created any problem in this period.


During this period our land lady has not done any maintenance work and every time we contacted her for any issues she always push back with the excuses like she doesn't have that kind of money and always end up bringing non-professional people like her son /daughter family friend to repair stuff which make things worse and unconformable so in the end had almost given up.

Now conditions of apartment is getting really shabby including following basic issues needs attention:

1. one of cooking ring isn't working
2. Grill has stop working
3. Parts of walls specially around toilet area is getting really damp
4. Carpet needs cleaning

So this time i contacted her again and explained that she needs to fulfill her side of obligation specially when we are paying 1000 eur a month as rent.

She reacted in same pattern saying she doesn't have the money and when i insisted she said we are too much of hassles and she want us to be out.

We got a tenancy notice latter from her last week giving 112 days notice siting the reason as 'house is required for another family member' and nothing else.

We know this for the fact that none of her family member is needing this place as they all are settle in different part of city and this place has been on rent since years until we requested tp better conditions in flat.

Just wondering if she can terminate notice like this?

do we still have to pay full amount of rent during this notice period even though house is lacking the basic necessities? :mad:

Any guidance or help us most welcome

Regards
B

The_Conductor

She has served the required notice and given a legitimate reason (under the 2004 Residential Tenancies Act) for terminating the tenancy. The only way to halt the process, is by taking a case against her at the PRTB. You would be expected to have a legitimate case to make, and to have proper documentation on which to base your case. At present- it can take up to 4 months for a case to come before the PRTB.

It probably is bull about a family member needing the property- however all she has to do is give the requisite notice along with a valid reason for terminating the lease, and then install a family member there for a given period (who knows maybe one would even move in for her just to legitimise the arrangemen)- and then she has followed the letter of the law.

Continuing to stay there and pay rent- was where you went wrong. Personally I'd have moved- or far more likely, invited the local environmental health officer in for a cup of tea and shown him instances of concern (rising damp, dry mould etc)

The Housing (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009- details a landlords obligations towards the maintanance of a rental property- google it, you might find some useful items there

Victor

osho wrote: »

1. one of cooking ring isn't working
2. Grill has stop working

Things breakdown over a period of years. Assuming it is reasonable wear and tear, she needs to get it sorted.

3. Parts of walls specially around toilet area is getting really damp

Are you venting the bathroom adequately? Or is it penetrating damp?

4. Carpet needs cleaning

Surely your responsibility.

loyatemu

1. landlady sounds like a jerk
2. the place sounds like a dump
3. Your paying 1000 a month.
4. Rents have dropped dramatically over the last 4 years
5. Move out and find somewhere bigger and better

Doop

Why do you want to stay somewhere that sounds terrible?

Not all Landlords/Agencies go on like this. Move out get a better living situation in a nicer place with a reasonable Landlord.

Shes already done well having you there continusly for 4 years, and she'll probably do well to get someone else to stay that long.

Owards and upwards, forget about her, its a renters market..

Heckler

Hi,

Myself and my OH received a notice of termination of tenancy (with no reason) from our landlord today. We never met him having dealt with a letting agency. We have been in the house less than 6 months so I realise he is under no obligation to give us any reason.

We have been model tenants and the only reason we can see that he is throwing us out is that we regularly contacted the letting agents with regards to work that needed to be done to the house.

We were assured that the work would be done (Dry Lining) and when we pushed for a date for starting we get this in the post.

It seems obvious to me that he has no intention of carrying out the work (a big job I know) and decided to kick us out while he can and move another few schmucks in and either hope they don't complain or do the same to them if they do.

I know he has the law on his side but this is hardly fair treatment. Is there anything we can do ?

Advice appreciated, thanks.

silverharp

I guess you have to be careful what you rent. If you are going to rent an older house/apt make sure it is top notch if not factor in the cost of poor insulation, leaky windows etc.
I'm only guessing here but possibly the dodgy landlords are old timers from the 80's/early 90's who possibly dont have mortgages on them anymore so they dont give a crap basically.

shoegirl

Silverharp2 wrote: »

I guess you have to be careful what you rent. If you are going to rent an older house/apt make sure it is top notch if not factor in the cost of poor insulation, leaky windows etc.
I'm only guessing here but possibly the dodgy landlords are old timers from the 80's/early 90's who possibly dont have mortgages on them anymore so they dont give a crap basically.

+1
Older houses are notorious for substandard conditions (and bear in mind that the minimum conditions required by law are way below what a lot of people regard as "nice"). The blame that is put on bedsits is a joke as 1 and 2 bedroomed studios/flats are often as bad if not worse than many bedsits.
Technically she is in the right but if you really want to stay it would be worth contacting PRTB - she has given you the right paperwork etc, but chances are she's lying outright. The only way you can prove that is if she starts advertising it for rent before you leave (or after - I suspect PRTB would actually accept a complaint if you discovered restrospectively that she was renting it again).

That said, it sounds horrible. A lot of landlords don't bother their backsides with any kind of maintenance beyond stuff that really has to be done.

The flip side that is hard for those of us renting since the 90s are still trying to come to terms with is its no longer the days of turning up on a designated night to a queue of other people, cash in hand just in case, and possibly discovering the rent was already hiked up by 20 pounds a week before you've even looked at it, not to mention often being forced to make on the spot decisions because the place would be whipped up. Its a buyers market and there is no longer a need to put up with the kind of 5th rate standards that were normal 10 years ago. I'd suggest looking at Daft - there is a HUGE glut of unrented property out there and if you have 3 months you've a long time to look around and find something nicer. Best of luck.

Heckler

Silverharp2 wrote: »

I guess you have to be careful what you rent. If you are going to rent an older house/apt make sure it is top notch if not factor in the cost of poor insulation, leaky windows etc.
I'm only guessing here but possibly the dodgy landlords are old timers from the 80's/early 90's who possibly dont have mortgages on them anymore so they dont give a crap basically.

I'm a bit unsure as well as to how to finalise our moving out. I'm pretty sure that if we pay our final rent due that we are going to have a hell of a time getting our deposit back if this is the kind of landlord he is. Should we use our deposit as final rent ? (I know this is considered a bad idea). Can we hold on to keys to the house till we get it back ? It would really be a kick in the teeth to have to chase a landlord for a deposit for a year after the trouble he giving us now.

the_syco

Heckler wrote: »

We have been in the house less than 6 months so I realise he is under no obligation to give us any reason.

Never heard of that "rule" before, other than he has to give you 4 weeks notice. As for your deposit, move your stuff out, and meet him saying you'll give him the keys when you get your deposit.

Heckler

the_syco wrote: »

Never heard of that "rule" before, other than he has to give you 4 weeks notice. As for your deposit, move your stuff out, and meet him saying you'll give him the keys when you get your deposit.

It's on the PRTB website. If you're in the rented acommodation less than 6 months he's under no obligation to give you a reason why he wants you out. he does as you said have to give us 4 weeks to move which he has done.

Screwed either way. If you find work needing done after a week or two and you decide to give it 6 months before complaining so as you'll have more rights all you'll get back is "you didn't complain till now so it must be a recent problem of your own making". ****ing cowboy landlords. I'm going to report him for not having a BER cert as well as notifing the housing authority that he is letting substandard property. Also got no notification that we were registered with the PRTB so i'll follow that up too.

robd

Heckler wrote: »

It's on the PRTB website. If you're in the rented acommodation less than 6 months he's under no obligation to give you a reason why he wants you out. he does as you said have to give us 4 weeks to move which he has done.

Screwed either way. If you find work needing done after a week or two and you decide to give it 6 months before complaining so as you'll have more rights all you'll get back is "you didn't complain till now so it must be a recent problem of your own making". ****ing cowboy landlords. I'm going to report him for not having a BER cert as well as notifing the housing authority that he is letting substandard property. Also got no notification that we were registered with the PRTB so i'll follow that up too.

Unless of course you signed a fixed term lease, then the details re termination are set out in the lease agreement. Generally they are better than the PRTB rules (which are a minimum) in regard to termination. Read your lease basically.

Having said that, I'd run. Accommodation is not in short supply in this country at the moment. Best to take it like a get out of jail fee offer to go and find a better place. Flip side is, you could have moved out and he'd be chasing you for payment on remaining period of lease.

astrofool

PRTB mostly covers a part 4 tenancy. 99% of the people who've come here asking questions about leases are under a fixed term tenancy, which has different rules.

The PRTB could do with being clearer on this. (really by having two seperate sections, rather than using one page for all).

Heckler

robd wrote: »

Unless of course you signed a fixed term lease, then the details re termination are set out in the lease agreement. Generally they are better than the PRTB rules (which are a minimum) in regard to termination. Read your lease basically.

Having said that, I'd run. Accommodation is not in short supply in this country at the moment. Best to take it like a get out of jail fee offer to go and find a better place. Flip side is, you could have moved out and he'd be chasing you for payment on remaining period of lease.

Far as I can see we did sign a fixed term lease. It is for a 12 month term. It also says that once we pay the rent and observe the agreements (which we have being doing) that we may "peaceably hold the premises during the term without any disturbance by the Landlord".

All we did was pressure him to do work on the house. Could he be in breach of the contract for kicking us out for that ?

astrofool

Heckler wrote: »

Far as I can see we did sign a fixed term lease. It is for a 12 month term. It also says that once we pay the rent and observe the agreements (which we have being doing) that we may "peaceably hold the premises during the term without any disturbance by the Landlord".

All we did was pressure him to do work on the house. Could he be in breach of the contract for kicking us out for that ?

Can you prove in front of a mediator that is the case? Unfortunately, it looks like the LL has done their homework on tenancy laws, and wants you out, and is doing so legally. There's very little you can do here, it's not your property at the end of the day.

Heckler

astrofool wrote: »

Can you prove in front of a mediator that is the case? Unfortunately, it looks like the LL has done their homework on tenancy laws, and wants you out, and is doing so legally. There's very little you can do here, it's not your property at the end of the day.

Can the landlord prove in front of a mediator that we haven't upheld our agreement ? It looks to me after a bit of research that the landlord doesn't know what he's doing. A fixed term lease can't be terminated before its expiry date unless one or both parties have seriously breached the agreement apparently. We've done nothing contrary to the lease. All we did was persist in asking for necessary work to the house to be done. In fact the landlord is obliged to provide accomodation free from dampness and mould.

The LL seems to think we have a part 4 tenancy wheras in fact we have a fixed term lease.

We can't prove that an unwillingness to do work is the reason he is getting us to leave but on the other hand we've done nothing to justify a termination and he can't provide evidence that we have because theres none there. From my research he is in fact illegally getting us to move.

astrofool

I would contact threshold and the prtb, and say:

"I have a fixed lease until "date X", but my landlord wants the property for a family member and has given me notice, can they do this?

Do not give other details, or your feelings on the situation, just get that fact first.

Reading here:
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/housing/renting-a-home/if-your-landlord-wants-you-to-leave

It does not say if it matters whether it is a fixed or part 4 tenancy, from doing a bit of reading on the (crap) prtb site and the (slightly better) threshold.ie site, it never mentions if there's a difference between a fixed and part 4 lease if the landlord wants a family member to move in.

Heckler

astrofool wrote: »

I would contact threshold and the prtb, and say:

"I have a fixed lease until "date X", but my landlord wants the property for a family member and has given me notice, can they do this?

Do not give other details, or your feelings on the situation, just get that fact first.

Reading here:
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/housing/renting-a-home/if-your-landlord-wants-you-to-leave

It does not say if it matters whether it is a fixed or part 4 tenancy, from doing a bit of reading on the (crap) prtb site and the (slightly better) threshold.ie site, it never mentions if there's a difference between a fixed and part 4 lease if the landlord wants a family member to move in.

Landlord never said dick about wanting a family member to move in. He never gave us any reason for wanting us out. Even if this was his excuse he has to prove that a family member did in fact move in within 3 months of us leaving. It doesn't take Einstein to do the math. We move in + ask for 3 months about work needing to be done = get a termination of notice with no reason. Obviously he considers us troublesome tenants for standing up for our rights and figures he can chuck us out without us having any comeback.

D3PO

seriolusly why do you care and why would you even consider fighting this ? Lets assume your assumptions are correct and they probably are.

Do you really think the landlord is going to anything but make your life a misery if you pursure this ? Use your notice find somewhere nicer with less problems and with a better landlord for probably less rent per month aswell.

astrofool

Sorry, you seem to have cross posted over the OP's issue (osho) who did have to move out due to a family member wanting to move in. You might be better off in a seperate thread.

Heckler

D3PO wrote: »

seriolusly why do you care and why would you even consider fighting this ? Lets assume your assumptions are correct and they probably are.

Do you really think the landlord is going to anything but make your life a misery if you pursure this ? Use your notice find somewhere nicer with less problems and with a better landlord for probably less rent per month aswell.

Yeah, why bother complaining about anything. Lets just all roll over and take it up the ass from cowboy landlords. Why do we even have a PTRB to complain to. Maybe if once in a while a tenant decides to make a useless landlords life misery it might stop them doing it to someone else. I've taken professional advice that tells me the landlord is completely in the wrong so i'm going to do my damn best to nail the ****er to the wall.

No offence but if its your style to take bull**** like that good luck to ya.

antoinolachtnai

astrofool wrote: »

PRTB mostly covers a part 4 tenancy. 99% of the people who've come here asking questions about leases are under a fixed term tenancy, which has different rules.

The PRTB could do with being clearer on this. (really by having two seperate sections, rather than using one page for all).

A fixed term tenancy can also be a part 4 tenancy. A fixed term clause gives the tenant extra rights.

In the present case, it really hinges on whether there is a Part 4 tenancy or not. It's not clear that there is. As I understand it, it is not a Part 4 tenancy between the 49th month and the end of the 54th month.

D3PO

Heckler wrote: »

Yeah, why bother complaining about anything. Lets just all roll over and take it up the ass from cowboy landlords. Why do we even have a PTRB to complain to. Maybe if once in a while a tenant decides to make a useless landlords life misery it might stop them doing it to someone else. I've taken professional advice that tells me the landlord is completely in the wrong so i'm going to do my damn best to nail the ****er to the wall.

No offence but if its your style to take bull**** like that good luck to ya.

Heckler learn to pick your battles and not just to fight for the sake of it. Tell me what good can come of this ?

Best case you fight it prove they had no family member to move in and get to stay in the house. You end up with a pissed off landlady do you think they are going to do anything for you if you call and say X is broken or Y needs to be replaced etc ??

Seriously fight for your rights by all means but just dont cut off your nose to spite you face. Ive still yet to see any argument at all not least a compelling one that says this is worth fighting.

Perhaps you care to enlighten me on what you get out of fighting this ?