Are Landlords responsible for garden maintenance?

oil painting

HI, I am moving to Conemara next week, we have found a two story cottage for rent it has a big enough garden with it, i was speaking with the previous tenants who said they read an article that the garden is now the responsibility of the Landlord in Ireland? anyone shed any light on the subject? We are about to sign a lease which says we are responsible for the up keep of the garden, there is no provision of a lawn mower or hedge cutter, the previous tenant paid a guy 40 euro per visit, our rent is 750 per month there, they have brought the rent down from 867 per month, we are adding up the bills and maintenance costs and are assessing what to do before signing the lease? Any advice appreciated, thanks.

Oh the lease also mentions something about stamp duty we agree to be liable for anyone know what this is?

Paulw

I can't see how it would be up to the landlord.

I assume you're renting the property (including the gardens), and therefore it would be up to you to keep it.

Provision of gardening tools/equipment would also not be up to the landlord.

Delirium

http://www.hail.ie/publications/TenantHandbook2009.pdf

EDIT: that is just for houses in the HAIL scheme in Dublin.

According to the pdf linked above, the garden is the responsibilty of the tenant. I haven't seen anything to indicate who is responsible for getting the lawnmower though.

Moved into a house just before christmas which has a garden and when signing the contract was told I would be responsible for maintenance of the garden. But only if the landlord provided the lawnmower.

I'm not sure if that is the standard rule for renting though.

A link to a citizens information page seems to say it's the landlords responsibility. Unless I'm reading it wrong.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/housing/renting-a-home/repairs-maintenance-and-minimum-physical-standards

The_Conductor

Under Section 18A of the The Housing (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 and the Private Rented Sector, for the first time, since 1st of December 2009, a landlord is obliged to maintain the structure and exterior of any rental properties, including their exteriors, for the first time. This extends to keeping the garden and any grounds, other than those vested in a Management Company, in a state of good repair.

Section 18(7)(b) of the 1992 Act and Article 5 of the Housing (Standards for Rented Houses) Regulations 2008, for the first time defines in detail- what a 'good state of repair entails' and under the 2009 Act- extends these obligations even to vacant rental property (like to see them chase all the developers on this one!!!). There is an inclusion in the updated definition of a requirement to maintain gardens and to keep common areas in good condition. Ths means that there is now a lawful obligation on landlords to maintain the external appearance of rented accommodation (for the first time).

How the external appearance and maintenance is conducted, is not specified, it may include a contractual obligation by lease article on the part of the tenant to perodically conduct stated actions (such as mowing the lawn every 10 days, between the months of April and October, for example).

S.

Xiney

the law is that it's the landlord's responsibility.

I would be open to taking care of it myself, but only if the landlord provided (and maintained) the tools necessary.

shoegirl

Xiney is right. How many tenants own lawnmowers?
Its not completely unreasonable, though probably being done to more satisfy the damage done to neighbours of owner occupied houses who may feel their homes are being devalued by a decrepid rented house beside them than for the benefit of tenants. That is why vacant properties also must be maintained.

In practice a lot of gardens and yards of rented properties simply become rubbish tips, especially if its split into flats and there is no responsibility for it.
In practice, I maintain the yard out the back myself, for my own pleasure. Only one other tenant in the house has access (due to my landlady having turned hallways and entrances into flats) and he doesn't use it, so its kind of unofficial extra space for me really.

oil painting

Hi Yes, this was why i was asking the question, because i think it is a recent thing that has come in, we are happy to maintain it if he supplies the mower and hedge cutter, i dont think the letting agent is aware of this new law but if we bring it to their attention we may be able set off on that agreement before signing the lease, thanks for the replies and citizen info link.

Xiney

Make sure whatever agreement you come to that you get it in writing. (ie, if they agree to provide the lawn tools, which is, like I said, the only way I would agree to take care of the lawn, get that in writing)

geem

Am renting in Galway. Landlord cuts grass, trims shrubs etc and maintains exterior. In my last rented place the landlord paid a man to cut the grass and noticed this man was also cutting the grass in a lot of other rented places.
I don't understand your other question about being liable for stamp duty?

oil painting

geem wrote: »

Am renting in Galway. Landlord cuts grass, trims shrubs etc and maintains exterior. In my last rented place the landlord paid a man to cut the grass and noticed this man was also cutting the grass in a lot of other rented places.
I don't understand your other question about being liable for stamp duty?

Hi thanks for your reply, it was not clear at the beginning that the responsibility was with the landlord and i think it is news to many people,

i have just looked at the lease and it says this about the stamp duty thing...

To pay costs : To pay and discharge the stamp duty payable on this agreement and counterpart.

I am just unsure what it means but i will contact the agent and run it passed her, thanks.

Vic Vinegar

smccarrick wrote: »

Under Section 18A of the The Housing (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 and the Private Rented Sector, for the first time, since 1st of December 2009, a landlord is obliged to maintain the structure and exterior of any rental properties, including their exteriors, for the first time. This extends to keeping the garden and any grounds, other than those vested in a Management Company, in a state of good repair.

Section 18(7)(b) of the 1992 Act and Article 5 of the Housing (Standards for Rented Houses) Regulations 2008, for the first time defines in detail- what a 'good state of repair entails' and under the 2009 Act- extends these obligations even to vacant rental property (like to see them chase all the developers on this one!!!). There is an inclusion in the updated definition of a requirement to maintain gardens and to keep common areas in good condition. Ths means that there is now a lawful obligation on landlords to maintain the external appearance of rented accommodation (for the first time).

How the external appearance and maintenance is conducted, is not specified, it may include a contractual obligation by lease article on the part of the tenant to perodically conduct stated actions (such as mowing the lawn every 10 days, between the months of April and October, for example).

S.

Old thread revival..

I wasn't aware of this law when we moved into our new house, we signed a basic rental agreement that said it's our responsibility to cut the grass. Can we quote this law to the estate agents and get out of it still?

The_Conductor

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

Old thread revival..

I wasn't aware of this law when we moved into our new house, we signed a basic rental agreement that said it's our responsibility to cut the grass. Can we quote this law to the estate agents and get out of it still?

It depends on when your lease commenced. Any leases since the 1st of December 2009- are subject to this law, prior to this date- are not......

ilovesleep

oil painting wrote: »

Hi thanks for your reply, it was not clear at the beginning that the responsibility was with the landlord and i think it is news to many people,

i have just looked at the lease and it says this about the stamp duty thing...

To pay costs : To pay and discharge the stamp duty payable on this agreement and counterpart.

I am just unsure what it means but i will contact the agent and run it passed her, thanks.

we could be neighbours! it says the exact same thing in my contract about stamp duty. i would be grateful for help on this one too. i think there is a thread here down below about stamp duty in rental accomadation in that it only applies if your rent exceeds 30000 a year. is that right?

The_Conductor

ilovesleep wrote: »

we could be neighbours! it says the exact same thing in my contract about stamp duty. i would be grateful for help on this one too. i think there is a thread here down below about stamp duty in rental accomadation in that it only applies if your rent exceeds 30000 a year. is that right?

Correct.
It is normal with commercial leases, but very unusual with residential property.

Vic Vinegar

smccarrick wrote: »

It depends on when your lease commenced. Any leases since the 1st of December 2009- are subject to this law, prior to this date- are not......

Our lease started last month just. I just wanna be sure before i go in saying it's not our responsibility! Cheers.

iguana

Glad this was bumped. I've just moved back to Ireland and the house has a great garden but no garden tools. The landlord hasn't said a word to me about the garden so far. Tbh, it mightn't be my responsibility but I don't mind doing mowing the lawn and doing a bit of weeding. But I'm sure as hell not going to buy a lawnmower. I'll have to have a chat with him about it.

oil painting

Hi i posted the original post, we signed the lease the way it was with a verbal agreement that the landlord would provide us with a lawn mower and we would look after the Garden. He did after a month and it worked out great.

I had sent an email to the property agent saying....

Under Section 18A of the The Housing (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 and the Private Rented Sector, for the first time, since 1st of December 2009, a landlord is obliged to maintain the structure and exterior of any rental properties, including their exteriors, for the first time. This extends to keeping the garden and any grounds, other than those vested in a Management Company, in a state of good repair.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/housing/renting-a-home/repairs-maintenance-and-minimum-physical-standards


I would quote the same to the Landlord and see what he says, we wouldnt sign the lease until they agreed which was leverage but you could still mention it.


The stamp duty thing we queried was something we were told not to worry about and did not relate to us, we felt that the Landlord was a reasonable person and we felt confident that if anything went wrong we could work it out easy enough.

Best of luck with it.

AARRRRGH

If the landlord provides a lawnmower then I see no reason why you arent responsible for keeping your garden, that you are renting in good condition.
Just dont wreck the mower or it might come out of your deposit though.

Xiney

AARRRRGH wrote: »

If the landlord provides a lawnmower then I see no reason why you arent responsible for keeping your garden, that you are renting in good condition.

because the law says it's the landlord's responsibility.

AARRRRGH

Xiney wrote: »

because the law says it's the landlord's responsibility.

Not quite true.
If its in the lease that the tenant keeps the garden tidy then its the tenants responsibility. Only if the tenant reuses is it he landlords. And id say the tenant would be in breach of the lease there.
Ive never seen a lease in a place with a garden that doesnt state that the tenant must maintain the garden.

Xiney

This law is new so leases might be out of date since landlords tend to photocopy & use the same ones for each tenancy. In any case, it doesn't matter what the lease says - the law overrides it.

Similarly, if a lease says something about the state of the drains being the tenant's problem - this article also is overriden by the new laws.

AARRRRGH

Xiney wrote: »

This law is new so leases might be out of date since landlords tend to photocopy & use the same ones for each tenancy. In any case, it doesn't matter what the lease says - the law overrides it.

Similarly, if a lease says something about the state of the drains being the tenant's problem - this article also is overriden by the new laws.

You really dont know what you are talking about, do you? :rolleyes:

The_Conductor

Behave guys.......
If you disagree with what someone posts- refute it factually- do not personalise it.

BostonB

Since this is an extra cost, do landlords pass the cost of maintaining the garden onto the tenant? Because I can't see how else this will work.

The_Conductor

BostonB wrote: »

Since this is an extra cost, do landlords pass the cost of maintaining the garden onto the tenant? Because I can't see how else this will work.

Presumably landlords have always included the cost of upkeep of the property in the rent they seek- and obviously it would be a tax deductable expense- so its not as expensive as it appears on the surface.......

BostonB

My point is before Dec09 this wasn't a cost if the tenant. Now it is. So the rent would have to increase to pay for it. If you have to pay someone to come around and cut the grass every few weeks/once a month. You'd have to be careful who does in case theres an accident and the person isn't insured.

The_Conductor

BostonB wrote: »

My point is before Dec09 this wasn't a cost if the tenant. Now it is. So the rent would have to increase to pay for it. If you have to pay someone to come around and cut the grass every few weeks/once a month. You'd have to be careful who does in case theres an accident and the person isn't insured.

It wasn't a direct cost for the tenant- but there also was no legal obligation on the landlord to ensure that the exterior and grounds of the property were maintained- at all! If/when the grounds and exterior were maintained- it would have been paid for from rental income- and the landlord would have receipted it as a tax deductable expense- which is what is happening now. The only difference between then and now- is a legal obligation to maintain the exterior and grounds- whereas previously it was discretionary on the part of the landlord (subject to certain minimum standards- notably for properties let to RA tenants).

I don't see that tenants would now be paying extra for this- it would always have been factored in surely?

S.

BostonB

Why would a landlord factor it in if the tenant was doing it?

Its not like painting a house, or getting a plumber in. Which is infrequent. Cutting the grass might need to be done every few weeks in the summer. A garden service is going to have to get access on a frequent basis. Something a tenant might not want.

That said I think having a organised service to do it is the best way. As most tenants are not interested in maintaining a garden. Guess we'll see an increase in paved gardens.

Elle Collins

I'd address this issue before I signed OP, otherwise your landlord will blag his way out of this responsibility, as most landlords do out of most responsibilities.

oil painting

Elle Collins wrote: »

I'd address this issue before I signed OP, otherwise your landlord will blag his way out of this responsibility, as most landlords do out of most responsibilities.

Hey Im The original poster, we agreed with the landlord that if he provided a new lawnmower we would be happy to maintain the garden, he dropped us down a brand new one, my boyfriend ran his own landscape gardening business before we moved west and he was happy to do it.

So we have no issue anymore, i thought it was important to know what the new law was though and it seems people are not fully in the know about it, before we signed our lease and handed over money we made this agreement.

Thanks.

The_Conductor

As this has now been satisfactorily resolved- thread closed....