Church Costs etc

DvB

Just a quick query, myself & my fianceé are getting married in May, we confirmed the church back in August & paid a fee of €150 to ensure the booking. We were just wondering though is there any additional costs due to the church/priest as its not been mentioned in any of meetings with the priest since then?

Another thing that has me a tad confused is that on the receipt we received when paying the €150 there was a reference to the church organist & that should we NOT require him/her an additional fee of €150 was to be paid in advance, as we're providing our own music/singer on the day we are a bit suprised to be charged such a sum for a service to be not provided, is this the norm or is it merely a badly worded note actually meaning that should we require the organist the fee is required? Just wanted to see if anyone else has come across something similar before we discuss with the priest/church secretary.

Thanks...

seamus

DvB wrote: »

Just a quick query, myself & my fianceé are getting married in May, we confirmed the church back in August & paid a fee of €150 to ensure the booking. We were just wondering though is there any additional costs due to the church/priest as its not been mentioned in any of meetings with the priest since then?

Another thing that has me a tad confused is that on the receipt we received when paying the €150 there was a reference to the church organist & that should we NOT require him/her an additional fee of €150 was to be paid in advance, as we're providing our own music/singer on the day we are a bit suprised to be charged such a sum for a service to be not provided, is this the norm or is it merely a badly worded note actually meaning that should we require the organist the fee is required? Just wanted to see if anyone else has come across something similar before we discuss with the priest/church secretary.

Thanks...

Is this Trinity College by any chance, or another educational institution?

Some places have a contract with an organist in-situ that the organist gets paid for every wedding performed in the church, whether or not the organist is used. In return of course, the organist cannot turn down a gig. We got married in Trinity and had the same thing - the organist was a music PhD student who is appointed by the college on a yearly basis (he had a specific title, can't remember what it was).

We were having our own music too so were a bit peeved with having to pay it, but them's the rules. If you don't like it, there are plenty of other churches around.

I'd advise making use the organist seeing as you're paying for him/her anyway. We had him play Widor Toccata as we left the church and it sounded awesome. He got well paid for one song!

ravima

There is no charge for the Mass and Marriage ceremony, but it is expected to give a donation to the celebrating priest. It depends on your means. If both are working,I would suggest €200/250. The sacristan customarily gets a token of perhaps €20 and any altar servers €10/20 each.

What you have already paid is basically for the use of the building.

tatli_lokma

you still have to pay your €150 to register the wedding for legal purposes.
I have heard of some churches charging up to €500 for use of the building, siting things such as needing the cleaner to come in an extra day, blah blah! I find it quite shocking frankly.
Then there is the charge for flowers if you get the ladies who do the church flowers to do this. I have also heard that at certain times of the year, there are flowers anyway, but some churches still expect a contribution to them.

From talking to friends who had chruch weddings theirs cost from €250 to nearly €700!!!:eek:
Don't know anyone who got it for less than €250 (and that is not inc the legal costs and pre-marriage course).

DvB

Spoke to the priest & its all sorted, he explained how & why the fees work for the organist, we dont need to pay as we're providing our own music completely, the fee would be applicable if we provide our own organist & they were looking to use the church organ.

We already have the state side of things addressed & paid for so we'll just need to make a donation to the priest etc on the day.

Thanks for the comments/info people, much appreciated.

Trampas

Ours is €500

€200 to priest

€200 church

€100 sacristan

tatli_lokma

Trampas wrote: »

Ours is €500

€200 to priest

€200 church

€100 sacristan

:eek:

plus pre-marriage course, flowers, music! god, being a catholic is an expensive business these days!

I remember my sis getting married 20 years ago and paying the priest £20 plus his dinner and a tenner to the sacristan and alter boys! God be with the days!

edit to add - how can a priest come out and actually ask for €200?? thought they took a vow of poverty or something like that??

Whispered

I don't think they ask, I think it's a recommended "donation".

Yep here it is http://www.together.ie/CerFAQ.html if you look at FAQ:What Fees are payable to the parish and to your celebrant?

tatli_lokma

together.ie wrote:

Stipend for the Celebrant. There is no set fee for the priest's sacramental ministry; but it is customary to make a decent donation in appreciation for his services. We suggest that he be offerred about half of the couple's joint daily earnings (pre-tax!). About € 200 is usual nowadays, but it is really left to the couple's sense of proportion

WTF!!!!!!!!
:eek::eek::eek::eek:
I am in serious shock at having read this!!! Do they really seriouslt honestly think that the average couple earn €400 A DAY????? Clearly they think that the average Joe earns over €52k a year! Someone would want to invite them into the real world - doubt they would accept the invitation though!

johnfás

Not wishing to be confrontational but how many people here moaning about the fees imposed by churches on weddings are regular attenders at that church and have a relationship with their priest? I have never known people who get married in such circumstances to face such high fees. If someone is just using a church as a venue, they should of course expect to face a commercial fee - just as if they are using a hotel as a venue. If one is a regular attender at the church in question there is an issue of ownership there and a high fee is not appropriate.

prinz

Cincikchick wrote: »

:eek:
plus pre-marriage course, flowers, music! god, being a catholic is an expensive business these days!

I didn't realise the Catholic Church demanded flowers and music nowadays :rolleyes:

Cincikchick wrote: »

edit to add - how can a priest come out and actually ask for €200?? thought they took a vow of poverty or something like that??

No they don't. One of those things you might know if you actually had any real interest in the Catholic Church.

Have to agree with johnfás on this one. It's all a bit rich people complaining about paying for the use of the Church, celebrant, sacristan, etc. Especially when you consider there were posts on this forum about 'favours' and chair coverings costing a whole lot more.

kayos

johnfás wrote: »

If someone is just using a church as a venue, they should of course expect to face a commercial fee - just as if they are using a hotel as a venue.

I would agree with you on that if the chuch would issue a reciept and collect VAT for the state! The church is not a commerical company.

Honestly the costs involved for a church marriage are a bit on the nutty side.

Give you an example what it was going to be for us
Church = €300
Priest = €150 - €200
Pre-Marriage course = €200
Meal for priest = ~€50

Thats a lot of money to extract from a couple just to get married.

Now while €300 for the church is high let me explain that its not in our parish but is the parish over due tot he fact the church in the parish is not available due to renovations.

Funny thing is if you want to use a church for a baptism you dont get charged half as much. Its just another example of the fact that word "wedding" in Ireland means "charge what we like". You would think that in a recession when people are having a hard time making ends meet at all that the church would be the first place to help young couple out by reducing the cost of having a church wedding.

The church asking for a donation is one thing, demanding a fee another. For us any way it was the latter.

prinz

kayos wrote: »

Give you an example what it was going to be for us
Church = €300
Priest = €150 - €200
Pre-Marriage course = €200
Meal for priest = ~€50

Thats a lot of money to extract from a couple just to get married.

Say a total at most of €750? Now how much are you going to spend on your wedding in total?

davet1969

ravima wrote: »

There is no charge for the Mass and Marriage ceremony, but it is expected to give a donation to the celebrating priest. It depends on your means. If both are working,I would suggest €200/250. The sacristan customarily gets a token of perhaps €20 and any altar servers €10/20 each.

What you have already paid is basically for the use of the building.

That Doesn't sound too bad, although its still a bit steep if your in reciept of Social Welfare Benifits. Maybe the priest can be haggled down if i play on his christian goodwill.

johnfás

kayos wrote: »

I would agree with you on that if the chuch would issue a reciept and collect VAT for the state! The church is not a commerical company.

Correct, the Church is a charity. This however means that even if it is a fee, rather than a donation (as you allude to later in your post) it is VAT exempt. Charities do not collect VAT on the provision of services, even where commercially provided - eg hospitals, schools, churches etc.

kayos wrote: »

Honestly the costs involved for a church marriage are a bit on the nutty side.

Give you an example what it was going to be for us
Church = €300
Priest = €150 - €200
Pre-Marriage course = €200
Meal for priest = ~€50

Thats a lot of money to extract from a couple just to get married.

I don't disagree with you in the slightest. However, my personal opinion, which is not a slur on the perspective of anybody else here, is that if I were going to have a church wedding, I would intend being a member of that church. I would in fact have already been a member prior to my intention to wed in it. On that basis, I wouldn't be attending a church which was going to fleece me, as a regularly attender there, when I get married.

kayos wrote: »

Now while €300 for the church is high let me explain that its not in our parish but is the parish over due tot he fact the church in the parish is not available due to renovations.

Have you contacted your local priest to see if he can make an arrangement for a lesser fee?

kayos wrote: »

Funny thing is if you want to use a church for a baptism you dont get charged half as much.

Again, I wouldn't be attending a church where they would charge me for a baptism. But again, as I said above, if one is simply walking in the door and asking for a baptism never to be seen again, perhaps the Church is just providing a service for which payment should be made.

kayos wrote: »

You would think that in a recession when people are having a hard time making ends meet at all that the church would be the first place to help young couple out by reducing the cost of having a church wedding.

A very valid point. Have you raised it with the church in question in these terms and what was their response?

kayos

prinz wrote: »

Say a total at most of €750? Now how much are you going to spend on your wedding in total?

Ok lets put this another way a couple want to get married. But are deeply religious and as a result need to have a church wedding. So what aside from that 750 do they have to pay? About 150 in fees to the state to have a legal marriage. And lets be nice and give them two rings at 50 euro each.

In that context the church is 75% of the cost of getting married.

Its the basics of wants vs needs that most people learned in JC business studies.

They need to get married due to their religion. Sex, living together having a family are all sins until they get married.
They need to get married in the eyes of god as a civil marraige is not good enough due to their religion.
As a result they need to pay that €750 (church imposed costs) + €150 (State imposed legal fees).

She might want the nice wedding dress but she doesnt need it.
He might want a nice suit but doesnt need it.
They might want a party but they dont need one.
They might want a honeymoon but they dont need one.
They might want professional photos but they dont need them.

Wants are optional and can be skipped. Needs how ever can not.

prinz

kayos wrote: »

Ok lets put this another way a couple want to get married. But are deeply religious and as a result need to have a church wedding..

In that case they are probably known to the celebrant, active members of the congregation etc and I think you'll find something could be worked out with the priest in these circumstances.

Trampas

how many people who moan about the cost actually go to mass each week?

i say if the priest knows you and a regular attender the price would be less

tatli_lokma

Trampas wrote: »

how many people who moan about the cost actually go to mass each week?

i say if the priest knows you and a regular attender the price would be less

my friend attends mass every week. her mother is involved actively in the church. As a 'favour' they are only having to pay €150 for the church. It is normally €250. She is still expected to give a 'donation' to the priest, sacristan and alter servers. bear in mind she is marrying on a wednesday, is having a small wedding and her faith is very important to her.

I think this proves that being a regular church goer is no guarantee that you will be expempt from any of the expenses.

yes flowers and music are not necessary, but there is a special mass being offered the night before for a local sports club, there will be flowers there for that and the priest expects to be given a contribution as she will get use of them.

Whilst I do see the point of view of those defending the church, I think to assume that in general parish priests are reasonable and approachable people is a but polly anna - from my experience our parish priest was an obnoxious tyrant, and he is partly the reason why in my younger days I stopped attending mass.

kayos

Question to those actively defending the Church's charges for a wedding...

Are you already married?
Are you engaged?
Are you thinking of getting engaged to your partner?
Are you not in a relationship?

While you answer does not change your right to try and defend the church it will give us a better idea of if your in here just trying to defend the church or in here becasue you have wedding issues to deal with.

johnfás

kayos wrote: »

Question to those actively defending the Church's charges for a wedding...

Are you already married?
Are you engaged?
Are you thinking of getting engaged to your partner?
Are you not in a relationship?

While you answer does not change your right to try and defend the church it will give us a better idea of if your in here just trying to defend the church or in here becasue you have wedding issues to deal with.

I am not per se defending the charges that any particular church is making you pay. If you read my post I agreed with you that those prices are astronomical. I would not pay them and equally I would not attend a church who was going to charge them to me. However, I simply raised the question as to whether people who are facing such fees are actually regular attenders at their church and if not, on what basis should the situation be treated as anything different to a commercial transaction. If you read my post I think you will see that is the case.

mdebets

Cincikchick wrote: »

my friend attends mass every week. her mother is involved actively in the church. As a 'favour' they are only having to pay €150 for the church. It is normally €250. She is still expected to give a 'donation' to the priest, sacristan and alter servers. bear in mind she is marrying on a wednesday, is having a small wedding and her faith is very important to her.

I think this proves that being a regular church goer is no guarantee that you will be expempt from any of the expenses.

You forgot to mention what money your friend and her fiancee is earning.
Are they on good money and can afford these charges easily, then I really don't see why she should be getting reduced prices, and I would asume that she would pay it happily, as it is going to a good cause.
If they are on the dole and can't really afford it, she should talk to the priest again, as he might mot be aware of her circumstances.

All the people complaining are probably the ones who haven't seen a church from the inside for years. If you go to church regularly and the priest knows you, I can't really see him charging you more than you can afford, which might be the full price, if you can afford it.

prinz

kayos wrote: »

Question to those actively defending the Church's charges for a wedding....

Already married, less than three months ago. If you want a Church wedding and everything that entails that should be the first thing you budget for.

tatli_lokma

mdebets wrote: »

You forgot to mention what money your friend and her fiancee is earning.
Are they on good money and can afford these charges easily, then I really don't see why she should be getting reduced prices, and I would asume that she would pay it happily, as it is going to a good cause.
If they are on the dole and can't really afford it, she should talk to the priest again, as he might mot be aware of her circumstances.

All the people complaining are probably the ones who haven't seen a church from the inside for years. If you go to church regularly and the priest knows you, I can't really see him charging you more than you can afford, which might be the full price, if you can afford it.

sorry I didn't realise that the catholic church works on the basis that if you are lucky enough to earn a higher wage then you are expected to pay more to be married within your faith!! From your point, then a person on the dole who attends mass sporadically should get a reduced rate, but a couple who actively attend mass, earn good money and regularly contribute to the church in collections and church envelopes should pay more?? sorry, don't get that logic . If you are involved in the church actively and regularly then I don't think you should have to pay AT ALL to use the church, as obviously in that case your choice of having a church wedding is based on faith and not on aesthetics.

since you mention it, my firend is actually still in college (only 22), so has no earnings other than her part time job. Her husband to be works for a charity and is not on great money. They are marrying in a very small affair - church ceremony for immediate family, about 10 in total, and a meal afterwards. As I said her faith means a lot to her, and she is marrying her partner because she wants to spend her life with him and live with him - to do this as a good catholic she believes she should be married. She is not at all interested in big weddings etc. Given that having a church wedding is costing about €300, and the rest of her wedding is costing a total of €600 or so, then €300 is quite a large chunk of the budget.

I think the issue here is more with the RC in Ireland, IMO. I work with a girl from Germany, a catholic and she is completely surprised that regular members of any parish are expected to pay to be married in their local church. She told me that in Germany, (or at least in her region, not sure if it country wide) if you are a regular member of the congregation and actively attend mass and participate in your faith, then there is NO charge to use YOUR church. She finds it very peculiar to be charged to use in effect, YOUR church.
I agree with her - I can understand the point of those who state that if you are only having a church wedding for the effect and to have the 'traditional' wedding, then fair enough, I can understand why you might argue they should pay for use of the church. but if you are a regular member of that parish, I think it is an extremely bad reflection on the priorities of the catholic church that they still charge to have a catholic ceremony.

hunnymonster

Cincikchick wrote: »

s. If you are involved in the church actively and regularly then I don't think you should have to pay AT ALL to use the church,

How do you imagine churches heat themselves, carry out maintenance feed the priest?.....

Cincikchick wrote: »

I think the issue here is more with the RC in Ireland, IMO. I work with a girl from Germany, a catholic and she is completely surprised that regular members of any parish are expected to pay to be married in their local church. She told me that in Germany, (or at least in her region, not sure if it country wide) if you are a regular member of the congregation and actively attend mass and participate in your faith, then there is NO charge to use YOUR church. She finds it very peculiar to be charged to use in effect, YOUR church.

In germany your church dues/fees (call them what you will) are taken out of your wages with your income tax. Germans do pay, it's just done efficiently by the pay roll clerk!

We're having a Christian marriage ceremony, on a terrace by the beach :-) The Pastor is a running buddy of mine and has refused to accept any payment for marrying us, but we will of course make a donation in some way that he can't refuse (it might have to be to his favourite charity though!)

tatli_lokma

hunnymonster wrote: »

How do you imagine churches heat themselves, carry out maintenance feed the priest?.....



In germany your church dues/fees (call them what you will) are taken out of your wages with your income tax. Germans do pay, it's just done efficiently by the pay roll clerk!

like I said, if you are a regular attender of mass, then you will be giving to that church regularly in the the form of the collections. So its not like you are not contributing. My point is, if you are a regular member of that church, regardless of how it is collected, you are most likely contributing financially to that parish, be it in the form of a church collection or a fee deducted from your wages. you are not expected to thereafter pay further to use that church in order to participate in your faith.

It just seems unfair to me - you are catholic, you participate in your faith, therefore receiving the sacriment of marriage in a church means a lot to you - and yet you are expected to fork out or don't get married in your faith?? that's just wrong to me. And I know people will say that most priests will take financial circumstances into account, but why should you have to go cap in hand and ask a 'favour' in order to be allowed to marry at a reduced fee? your financial situation should have no bearing on your faith - all that the priest should be concerned with is if the couple are regular church goers - if so then I think a church marriage should be free.


That also raises the question, if they have no objection to marrying you so long as you are happy to pay and do a course, then what respect do THEY hold for this sacriment? Living together, 5 kids, never attend church?? no matter, pay us and do the pre-marrige course and you can be as hypocritical as you like and marry in a church. Regular church goer, participate in the parish, earn a good wage? well you still have to pay up just like everyone else.
Its just warped to me.